Abstinence-Only Sex Ed Gets...

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Abstinence-Only Sex Ed Gets...

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Image
States rejecting abstinence funds
More states turning down federal money attached to zero-tolerance sex ed
By Rob Stein
The Washington Post
updated 10:58 p.m. CT, Sat., Dec. 15, 2007

The number of states refusing federal money for "abstinence-only" sex education programs jumped sharply in the past year as evidence mounted that the approach is ineffective.

At least 14 states have either notified the federal government that they will no longer be requesting the funds or are not expected to apply, forgoing more than $15 million of the $50 million available, officials said. Virginia was the most recent state to opt out.

Two other states -- Ohio and Washington -- have applied but stipulated they would use the money for comprehensive sex education, effectively making themselves ineligible, federal officials said. While Maryland and the District are planning to continue applying for the money, other states are considering withdrawing as well.

Until this year, only four states had passed up the funding.

"We're concerned about this," said Stan Koutstaal of the Department of Health and Human Services, which runs the program. "My greatest concern about states dropping out is that these are valuable services and programs. It's the youths in these states who are missing out."

Pressure from both sides of debate
The number of states spurning the money has grown even as Congress considers boosting overall funding for abstinence-only education to $204 million, with most of it going directly to community organizations.

The trend has triggered intense lobbying of state legislators and governors around the country. Supporters of the programs are scrambling to reverse the decisions, while opponents are pressuring more states to join the trend.

"This wave of states rejecting the money is a bellwether," said William Smith of the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, a Washington-based advocacy and education group that opposes abstinence-only programs. "It's a canary in the coal mine of what's to come."

"We hope that it sends a message to the politicians in Washington that this program needs to change, and states need to be able to craft a program that is the best fit for their young people and that is not a dictated by Washington ideologues," Smith said.

‘The straw that breaks the camel's back’
Smith and other critics said they hope that if enough states drop out, Congress will redirect the funding to comprehensive sex education programs that include teaching about the use of condoms and other contraceptives.

"I think this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of continued funding of these programs," said John Wagoner of Advocates for Youth, another Washington advocacy group. "How can they ignore so many states slapping a return-to-sender label on this funding?"

But supporters said they plan to fight for the programs state by state.

"We're talking about the health of millions of youth across the United States," said Valerie Huber of the National Abstinence Education Association. "We know abstinence education offers the best for them. Now is the time to put more emphasis on that message, not less."

Huber disputed criticism that the programs are ineffective or overly restrictive.

"Our critics would have governors believe that these programs are just somebody standing in front of the class wagging a finger and saying, 'No. No. No. Don't have sex.' That's not what these classes entail," Huber said. "They are holistic. They include relationship-building skills and medically accurate discussions of sexually transmitted diseases and contraception."

Approach under scrutiny
Congress is considering boosting the $176 million in annual funding for abstinence programs by $28 million. State governments can apply for portions of a $50 million fund, which they use for a variety of purposes, including school classes, community groups, state and local health departments and media campaigns. But the money is restricted to efforts focused on promoting abstinence.

The jump in states opting out follows a series of reports questioning the effectiveness of the approach, including one commissioned by Congress that was released earlier this year. In addition, federal health officials reported last week that a 14-year drop in teenage pregnancy rates appeared to have reversed.

"This abstinence-only program is just not getting the job done," said Cecile Richards of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "This is a ideologically based program that doesn't have any support in science."

But Koutstaal, the federal official, took issue with critics who blame abstinence programs for the increase in teen births, noting that rates have continued to decline for 10-to-14-year-olds -- the ages typically targeted by the programs.

"I think it's awfully hard to blame abstinence education for the increase in birth rates," he said.

States express doubt
The program was started as part of the 1996 welfare reform. California, however, dropped out in 2000, forgoing more than $7 million it was eligible to receive, and Maine opted out in 2005, giving up $161,000. Most states, however, did participate. New Jersey decided to opt out last year, rejecting more than $900,000 in funding, and others followed.

"The governor has often stated that abstinence-only education does not show any results," said Gordon Hickey, a spokesman for Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D), who announced plans to give up the funding last month. "It doesn't work. He's a firm believer in more comprehensive sex education."

Colorado also decided this fall not to seek about $450,000 that it is eligible to receive.

"Why would we spend tax dollars on something that doesn't work?" asked Ned Calonge of the Colorado Department of Health and Environment. "That doesn't make sense to me. Philosophically, I am opposed to spending government dollars on something that's ineffective. That's just irresponsible."

The reasons given for passing up the federal money vary from state to state. Some governors publicly repudiated the programs. Others quietly let their applications lapse or blamed tight budgets that made it impossible to meet the requirement to provide matching state funds. Still others are asking for more flexibility.

"The governor supports abstinence education," Keith Daily, a spokesman for Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland (D). "What he does not support is abstinence- only education. We are asking to put the money toward abstinence in the context of a comprehensive age-appropriate curriculum."

Most of the battles on the state level are being fought by local affiliates supported by national groups. In Illinois, opponents are planning to launch a campaign next month involving more than 100 state groups to try to sway the governor and state legislature to forgo about $1.8 million in funding.

"These programs are dangerous," said Jonathan Stacks of the Illinois Caucus for Adolescent Health. "We're trying to get people across the state to raise their voice on this issue. I think once those voices are heard, the legislature and the governor won't have any choice but to back the will of the voters."

© 2007 The Washington Post Company

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22277576/
User avatar
Darksider
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5271
Joined: 2002-12-13 02:56pm
Location: America's decaying industrial armpit.

Post by Darksider »

[Unreal Announcer] REJECTED! [/Unreal Announcer]


seriously though. This seems like good news. Hopefully said states can get a revised modern sex-ed class.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

remember that once someone realizes they are being lied to, it's kinda hard to but the contents back in the bivlet.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Zablorg
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1864
Joined: 2007-09-27 05:16am

Post by Zablorg »

Hooray!

It always struck me as wierd, teaching someone how to do something and how it works and then tell them DON'T DO IT EVER.

It occurs to me that flat out lies might actually work better, in this regard.
Jupiter Oak Evolution!
User avatar
Einhander Sn0m4n
Insane Railgunner
Posts: 18630
Joined: 2002-10-01 05:51am
Location: Louisiana... or Dagobah. You know, where Yoda lives.

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Zablorg wrote:It occurs to me that flat out lies might actually work better, in this regard.
It occurs to me that that's their intent.
User avatar
Zablorg
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1864
Joined: 2007-09-27 05:16am

Post by Zablorg »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Zablorg wrote:It occurs to me that flat out lies might actually work better, in this regard.
It occurs to me that that's their intent.
I saaay. How lieful are these lies? "Semen will give you cancer lies", or "*around* 80 percent of people DIE after intercourse" lies?
Jupiter Oak Evolution!
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

mind you I figured out that this shit didn't work when my sister and her friends were all mothers before they turned 19. yeah catholic school girls start out late but boy do they make up for lost time.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Zablorg wrote:
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Zablorg wrote:It occurs to me that flat out lies might actually work better, in this regard.
It occurs to me that that's their intent.
I saaay. How lieful are these lies? "Semen will give you cancer lies", or "*around* 80 percent of people DIE after intercourse" lies?
more like "Condoms give you aids and increase the risks of pregnancy", "Birth control pills and Abortions will make it impossible for you to ever have a baby when you want one." "Going down will cause the seed to lodge in the belly making you pregnant"

kind of lies.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Zablorg wrote:It always struck me as wierd, teaching someone how to do something and how it works and then tell them DON'T DO IT EVER.
Actually, the "abstinence-only sex education" programs skip the "teaching someone how to do it" part and jump straight to the "Don't do it ever" part. That's why they're called "abstinence only", not "abstinence plus regular sex ed". It would be like a driver safety training course which doesn't teach you anything except "don't drive".
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Post by Flagg »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zablorg wrote:It always struck me as wierd, teaching someone how to do something and how it works and then tell them DON'T DO IT EVER.
Actually, the "abstinence-only sex education" programs skip the "teaching someone how to do it" part and jump straight to the "Don't do it ever" part. That's why they're called "abstinence only", not "abstinence plus regular sex ed". It would be like a driver safety training course which doesn't teach you anything except "don't drive".
Yeah, but we can't teach them how to do it! I mean there's no way they can figure it out by themselves. The worst thing for anyone to have is knowledge of how their body functions.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Want to know what's really sad? The AIDS epidemic has killed roughly half a million Americans since 1981. Meanwhile, more than forty thousand Americans die every year from driving. Over that same 26 year period, that rate would add up to a figure somewhere in excess of one million people. And yet, no one would even remotely consider the notion of telling kids that they should simply not drive.

Maybe we should start pushing for "public transit-only driving education".
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

I still don't know why we let them drive before their horomones calm down, and their brains are fully working...
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
Andrew_Fireborn
Jedi Knight
Posts: 799
Joined: 2007-02-12 06:50am

Post by Andrew_Fireborn »

Because, most western people are deeply invested in the Cult of Convenience and the Cult of Individuality, especially the average American.

A car represents both of those things. The first for two parties in the case of teenagers, as the parents then no longer have to shuttle their offspring any and everywhere.

I'm sure it's been said here a dozen times over. Much like your probably rhetorical question.
Rule one of Existance: Never, under any circumstances, underestimate stupidity. As it will still find ways to surprise you.
User avatar
Lonestar
Keeper of the Schwartz
Posts: 13321
Joined: 2003-02-13 03:21pm
Location: The Bay Area

Post by Lonestar »

Darth Wong wrote:Want to know what's really sad? The AIDS epidemic has killed roughly half a million Americans since 1981. Meanwhile, more than forty thousand Americans die every year from driving. Over that same 26 year period, that rate would add up to a figure somewhere in excess of one million people. And yet, no one would even remotely consider the notion of telling kids that they should simply not drive.

Maybe we should start pushing for "public transit-only driving education".
Driving a POV is every American's God given right, damn it. Big difference between that and committing the sin or premarital sex.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
User avatar
fgalkin
Carvin' Marvin
Posts: 14557
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
Contact:

Post by fgalkin »

Driving is the only way to get anywhere in Bumfuck, America, where most roads don't even have sidewalks!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

fgalkin wrote:Driving is the only way to get anywhere in Bumfuck, America, where most roads don't even have sidewalks!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
And sex is an overwhelming biological instinct dating back to before the origin of our species. Expecting kids to not drive is still much more realistic than expecting them to not have sex.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Dark Hellion
Permanent n00b
Posts: 3559
Joined: 2002-08-25 07:56pm

Post by Dark Hellion »

Sex and cars for everyone then!
A teenage girl is just a teenage boy who can get laid.
-GTO

We're not just doing this for money; we're doing this for a shitload of money!
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Post by Oskuro »

Around here you need to be of age ( 18 ) before you get your license... Wich does not stop assholes from killing themselves, or worse, other people.

Legislators are trying to help reduce casualties, but it is my guess that certain groups (namely car companies and related) won't look kindly at laws that result in sales drops.

The same goes about abstinence-only sex education (something we don't have to endure around here... for now). They say it's "for the benefit of young people", but their flat-out refusal to acknowledge that ignorance is way more dangerous that knowledge, clearly reveals that their agenda is in no way related to helping youngsters.

I mean, sex is hardcoded in our behavior, even children have sexuality... But knowledge of its consequences, like pregnancy itself, is not.

I don't know what's worse... The blatant hypocrisy of the political figures, or the blindness of the populace that, regardless of overwhelming evidence, actually believe them.




Of course, the actual worst are the irresponsible egoistical mind-fucks who are willing to jeopardize their children's future for the sake of their dogmatic beliefs.
Screw driver's license, there should be rigorous testing to make sure people are fit to be parents.
unsigned
User avatar
Spyder
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4465
Joined: 2002-09-03 03:23am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Spyder »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zablorg wrote:It always struck me as wierd, teaching someone how to do something and how it works and then tell them DON'T DO IT EVER.
Actually, the "abstinence-only sex education" programs skip the "teaching someone how to do it" part and jump straight to the "Don't do it ever" part. That's why they're called "abstinence only", not "abstinence plus regular sex ed". It would be like a driver safety training course which doesn't teach you anything except "don't drive".
The funny thing is that by saying "there's something we don't want you to ever do and we're not going to tell you what it is" they're going to be stimulating a lot more curiosity and probably a higher quantity of sex acts then if they just came out and said "incase you haven't figured it out already, this is sex."
:D
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Post by K. A. Pital »

Teaching people not to fuck at all, and this program was state-funded at some point? :shock: How is that even remotely viable? Maybe I'm missing something in the terminology? How "abstinent" must one be in such educational programs?

I mean, I could understand your sex-ed telling you to keep long-term, trusty partners, that's a good safety measure (and a good relationship advice too), but I see that "abstinence only" must mean something much more extreme than that.

How can you teach people not to fuck? Fucking is a biological instinct, even if developed initially only to procreate... :lol:
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

Stas Bush wrote:Teaching people not to fuck at all, and this program was state-funded at some point? :shock: How is that even remotely viable? Maybe I'm missing something in the terminology? How "abstinent" must one be in such educational programs?
You must abstain until marriage. Seriously, that's what they're teaching the kids. This teaching is from the Victorian era, and it works about as well as it did back then, which is to say "not at all". And when you do finally get married and have your fill of Wholesome Christian Guilt-Ridden Sex, you must do it without condoms, which is why they don't teach about them (that's one of the key features of "abstinence only" sex ed; don't teach the kids to use condoms).
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2007-12-18 01:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
The Spartan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4406
Joined: 2005-03-12 05:56pm
Location: Houston

Post by The Spartan »

Stas Bush wrote:How can you teach people not to fuck? Fucking is a biological instinct, even if developed initially only to procreate... :lol:
Because it's evil and dirty and you should only do it when you're married, in missionary, under the covers in the dark. And you better not enjoy it.

Seriously, have you forgotten all the bumblefuck morons we've posted about pledging themselves to their daddies or going on and on about how they saved themselves for marriage so they can be good wives? One in particular I remember going so far as to not even kiss her husband until they were married.
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
Image
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari
Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Post by K. A. Pital »

Aaah... I see. Wonderful stuff there; I can't believe the US is so socially and sexually backwards, or at least a great part of it, I mean, wasn't the US like a beacon of "sexual revolution" or something? :?

Bumblefuck morons indeed; when such a marriage occurs and they are plagued by unchecked STDs, sexual incompetence and a quite probable sexual incompatibility...

Hell, these people are just wrecking judgement on their own selves! :lol:

Of course teaching this crap to kids is just out of the fucking question; screwing up your own life like that is bad enough, but a child? :roll:
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

the rightwingers took over and want to turn the clock back to the 1850s but they say it's only to the 1950s.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Scottish Ninja
Jedi Knight
Posts: 964
Joined: 2007-02-26 06:39pm
Location: Not Scotland, that's for sure

Post by Scottish Ninja »

The lies that I got in my Health class were only on the level of "sperm cells are the biggest cells in the human body, so condoms can't protect you against STDs, which are smaller, and condoms aren't effective enough anyway."

I didn't really trust my teacher after that.
Image
"If the flight succeeds, you swipe an absurd amount of prestige for a single mission. Heroes of the Zenobian Onion will literally rain upon you." - PeZook
"If the capsule explodes, heroes of the Zenobian Onion will still rain upon us. Literally!" - Shroom
Cosmonaut Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov (deceased, rain), Cosmonaut Petr Petrovich Petrov, Unnamed MASA Engineer, and Unnamed Zenobian Engineerski in Let's play: BARIS
Captain, MFS Robber Baron, PRFYNAFBTFC - "Absolute Corruption Powers Absolutely"
Post Reply