Confederacy or Federation?

Strate_Egg · Post by **Strate_Egg** » 2003-01-17 06:59pm

Anyone have an idea of which universe's race is more powerful..... Terran Confederation from Wing Commander or the UFP? Weapons wise.

Any ideas of where i should go to look this up now?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-17 07:29pm

I think the Federation is more powerful in weapons but not by much. But a war between them would result in the Federation being ass-raped 6 ways to Sunday.

POKE.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-17 08:47pm

According to most calculations as well as some of the novels, the Confederation is way ahead. Their lighter weapons come close to equally the federations heavy weapons. The big one are fairly well beyond the UFP.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-17 08:56pm

Stormbringer wrote:According to most calculations as well as some of the novels, the Confederation is way ahead. Their lighter weapons come close to equally the federations heavy weapons. The big one are fairly well beyond the UFP.

I that case. I would like to correct by previous posting and say Federation ass-raped 600 times passed Sunday.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-17 09:26pm

paladin wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:According to most calculations as well as some of the novels, the Confederation is way ahead. Their lighter weapons come close to equally the federations heavy weapons. The big one are fairly well beyond the UFP.
I that case. I would like to correct by previous posting and say Federation ass-raped 600 times passed Sunday.

I'd say it's something more like 60. They're lack of an independent FTL will really hurt them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-17 09:45pm

The jump points seem to be natural phenomena of fixed location, but that's not a huge impediment if they can move between those jump points very quickly.

They also had the Behemoth, which is stated to have a 500 million GW weapon (roughly 120 megatons per second). This would shred any Federation starship's defenses and do a good number on any Federation world. It was even stated to be a planet-destroyer, but that level of power is woefully inadequate to get the job done. We can only conclude that its test target must have been a small moon rather than a full-sized planet, or it uses the mother of all goofy sci-fi chain reactions.

And of course, they had "tachyon cannons" whose bursts moved at distinctly sublight speed

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 09:47pm

What was it that popped a planet by causing extreme tectonic activity? Was it a special ConFed missile in WCIII? I never did play that game...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-17 09:48pm

Darth Wong wrote:The jump points seem to be natural phenomena of fixed location, but that's not a huge impediment if they can move between those jump points very quickly.

The problem is they come through blind and close to defenseless. If they had been smart they would have blockaded some of the key jump points with forts and nailed any ships coming through.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-17 09:49pm

a "temblor bomb" dropped from an Excalibur fighter with a cloak shield like on the Strakhas.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 09:51pm

beyond hope wrote:a "temblor bomb" dropped from an Excalibur fighter with a cloak shield like on the Strakhas.

Ah that's the name! Cheers.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-17 09:53pm

The "temblor bomb" ranks right up there with Star Trek's probability altering machine and sonic space weapon on the list of idiotic sci-fi ideas.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 09:55pm

Darth Wong wrote:The "temblor bomb" ranks right up there with Star Trek's probability altering machine and sonic space weapon on the list of idiotic sci-fi ideas.

Yeah, but IIRC it was a one trick pony that could only be used on the Kilrathi homeworld because of their highly volatile geology, the planet must've been a step near to falling to bits for a single bomb to take it out like that.

The Trek sonic cannon is funny because if it actually worked in space some say it would be teraton level in firepower. Make of that as you will.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-17 09:57pm

You didn't miss a whole lot, aside from Ginger Lynn Allen putting in an appearance as the mechanic.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-17 10:00pm

beyond hope wrote:You didn't miss a whole lot, aside from Ginger Lynn Allen putting in an appearance as the mechanic.

I heard it was somewhat subpar anyway, I was used to either the fully animated Wing Commander or 35mm film shot WCIV. Wouldn't mind flying an Excal though.

But on topic, the UFP is owned by an organisation that has superior weapons, not even taking into account a grasp on military doctrine which alone would be valuable and decisive.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-17 10:06pm

Darth Wong wrote:And of course, they had "tachyon cannons" whose bursts moved at distinctly sublight speed

If I recall correctly, one of the novels stated that the cannons drew their hitting power by slowing down tachyons, the idea being that tachyons worked the opposite way that tardyons do, gaining kinetic energy by slowing down. Pure pseudoscience, but no worse than a crack in a black hole's event horizon.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-17 11:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:The jump points seem to be natural phenomena of fixed location, but that's not a huge impediment if they can move between those jump points very quickly.
The problem is they come through blind and close to defenseless. If they had been smart they would have blockaded some of the key jump points with forts and nailed any ships coming through.

That sounds like the way jump points are defended in Starfire.

Strate_Egg · Post by **Strate_Egg** » 2003-01-18 01:02pm

Thanks all of ya. I really appreciate it.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-01-18 01:26pm

the confederacy has a vastly superior military which is much better trained than starfleet and in WC4 it's shown that some of the veterans from the kilrathi war are in the reserves and can be called up if things get to hot for confed probably woulden't though

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-18 01:37pm

With only a dozen fleet carriers and a few hundred destroyers, the Confederation does not stand a chance against the Federation.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-18 01:38pm

paladin wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:The jump points seem to be natural phenomena of fixed location, but that's not a huge impediment if they can move between those jump points very quickly.
The problem is they come through blind and close to defenseless. If they had been smart they would have blockaded some of the key jump points with forts and nailed any ships coming through.
That sounds like the way jump points are defended in Starfire.

It is, that's my point. A strategic chokepoint like that should be heavily defended as it's a great way to cut ships down when they're vulnerable. You wouldn't need to have the massive fleet battles when you could just ambush them and take out a bunch of them early. Any competent strategist would recognize that.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-18 01:48pm

Stormbringer wrote:
paladin wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: The problem is they come through blind and close to defenseless. If they had been smart they would have blockaded some of the key jump points with forts and nailed any ships coming through.
That sounds like the way jump points are defended in Starfire.
It is, that's my point. A strategic chokepoint like that should be heavily defended as it's a great way to cut ships down when they're vulnerable. You wouldn't need to have the massive fleet battles when you could just ambush them and take out a bunch of them early. Any competent strategist would recognize that.

I could see the self replicating cloaked mines being used on Confed jump points.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-18 02:01pm

Until they snatched up a warp drive.

How do they make the warp gates anyway? I never kept too close of attention to Wing Commander.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-18 02:08pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Until they snatched up a warp drive.

That's a pretty big until. They'd then have to reverse engineer it, design ships to use it, and build thos ships in sufficient quantity to be effect. It's not as simple as grab a federation ship and magically get warp drive.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:How do they make the warp gates anyway? I never kept too close of attention to Wing Commander.

It's never explained very well at all. They appear to be some sort of natural phenomenon. What exactly they are has never been identified.

The movie representation seems to be at odds with the previously established mechanics so I don't think it's worth considering.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-18 02:12pm

Yes, but with superior ship designs and weaponry, they can do chokepoint defense and bottle up forces near the wormhole while they work on the warp drive.

If the UFP was highly aggressive they might send a full-sized force in initially, and then they'd be screwed, but knowing the Federation, they'd take in one ship that'd get captured, and daudle around giving the Confeds enough time to put a shitload of forces at the wormhole.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-18 02:19pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Yes, but with superior ship designs and weaponry, they can do chokepoint defense and bottle up forces near the wormhole while they work on the warp drive.

If the UFP was highly aggressive they might send a full-sized force in initially, and then they'd be screwed, but knowing the Federation, they'd take in one ship that'd get captured, and daudle around giving the Confeds enough time to put a shitload of forces at the wormhole.

The thing is that Confederation is limited in how it moves. The Federation has none of these limitations. Not only that, but the Federation has superior anti-fighter systems then any of the Confed ships. The primary weapon of the Confederation is its fighters and they would be swatted asside with ease by Fed ships. With only a dozen fleet carriers, a couple hundred destroyers, and maybe several dozen heavy cruisers, the Confeds will be rolled over by the Federation very quickly.

There is no way that they can capture Warp drives and adapt them as quickly as your giving them credit for.

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Confederacy or Federation?

Confederacy or Federation?

Thankyou