Babylon5's PPGs

[FaxModem1]

Are these things good weapons? Are they realistic weapons?

[Darth Wong]

They're fucking stupid. The only way you'll get that big moving heat shimmer is if it greatly heats up the air. The problem is that the bolt does not have the time to heat up such a large volume of air, because it's moving too fast.

Also, the guns are deliberately made so weak that they won't damage instrumentation and onboard ships' systems in a firefight, which means that any idiot should be wearing enough body armour to duplicate the toughness of a computer console; that should make him pretty much immune to the damned things.

[Shinova]

Those things do blow down doors in a few occasions.


Okay, not blow down doors, per se, but destroy the edges so the door falls forward into the room.

[Darth Wong]

Those things do blow down doors in a few occasions.

Okay, not blow down doors, per se, but destroy the edges so the door falls forward into the room.

When used for an extended burn at very close range, like a blowtorch. A modern soldier would just put an explosive device on it and blow the door, and he'd be into the room MUCH faster than these clowns. And the fact remains that their normal distance-firing mode is deliberately designed to be so weak that it doesn't damage shipboard equipment.

[Sea Skimmer]

Are these things good weapons? Are they realistic weapons?

Stupid in all respects is a realistic feature of some actual weapons systems.

[Vympel]

My pet peeve of the standard PPG is that it's so fucking small. Honestly you can barely see it.

[Perinquus]

My pet peeve of the standard PPG is that it's so fucking small. Honestly you can barely see it.

I agree. If it were meant to be a holdout pistol, great; that'd be perfect. But for a holster pistol, to be worn openly, where concealment is not an issue, it's counterproductive to make it that small. If you make it larger, you can give it a longer sight radius, which will increase practical accuracy, and a larger power cell, which will increase firepower.

[Brian Young]

They are small enough to be concealed, which can help sometimes. For example, Sheridan hid one in his sock when he went to Z'ha'dum, and used it to fire on (and kill?) one of the aliens we call Shadows.
The sound they make when powering up is cool.
But they don't appear to be particularly deadly, and their bolts travel slowly.

The incident where PPGs were used to burn through the hinges on a door was in "Endgame." Those were PPG rifles, and there were several of them being fired at the door hinges. But those were pretty big door hinges.

For comparing to other major SciFi universe weapons, they aren't particularly powerful. When compared to Han Solo's blaster, which blows large chunks out of ferrocrete walls, or hand phasers, which make people disappear, they don't look like much.

But they can kill if they hit squarely, and have shown the ability to penetrate light body armor in "Severed Dreams."

I think it is logical to have weapons that can kill a man (or alien) in one square shot, but won't breach the hull. Remember that this is Earth technology of a couple hundreds years from now. They don't have force fields that can hold the atmosphere if the hull is compromised.

But they really shold have more powerful weapons at their disposal. If the series pilot is to be believed, they have some large rifles that fire some type of beam. But those didn't penetrate small metal objects either.

Michael is right about the heat distortion. Not only is he right about what he said, but it brings up another point. If the bolts were powerful enough to heat up the air like that, they would be powerful enough to blow away a computer console.

But it is canonical, so another explanation must be found. Perhaps this is some of the gas escaping? It would have to be a lot, and escaping rapidly, but it may also explain the short range.

[Ted C]

Also, the guns are deliberately made so weak that they won't damage instrumentation and onboard ships' systems in a firefight, which means that any idiot should be wearing enough body armour to duplicate the toughness of a computer console; that should make him pretty much immune to the damned things.

I thought they were designed so as not to have enough power to penetrate a bulkhead, not so weak they wouldn't harm a console.

The incident where PPGs were used to burn through the hinges on a door was in "Endgame." Those were PPG rifles, and there were several of them being fired at the door hinges. But those were pretty big door hinges.

I believe we saw a similar incident in "Thirdspace", too, when Zach and his security guys had to break into the robot control room where Lyta was hiding.

These weapons obviously won't go through a bulkhead in one shot, but get several of them together firing repeatedly and they can blow through one of those doors.

[Enlightenment-alternate]

I think it is logical to have weapons that can kill a man (or alien) in one square shot, but won't breach the hull. Remember that this is Earth technology of a couple hundreds years from now. They don't have force fields that can hold the atmosphere if the hull is compromised.

The danger posed by hull ruptures is vastly overrated.

A 5.56mm rifle bullet will kill people very nicely but a 6mm hole in the pressure hull of something the size of most non-fighter SF ships is at most a maintanance problem to be solved in a matter of days, weeks or years rather than an catastrophic emergency.

Also note that there must be at least 2m of radiation protection between space and the living areas. 2m of water, slag, or fuel will prove quite impervious to anything less than antitank weapons. If somone is shooting ATGMs then whoever owns the station (or ship) has far more to worry about than a mere hull breech.

Given the virtually non-existant risk of catostrophic decompression it makes a lot of sense to equip security & bording forces with conventional arms--on the principle that killing the bad guy is really important and leaving any holes in the interior hull for the maintanance department.

For civilian police applications, issuing glaser-type rounds would be advisible to reduce the risk of shooting through interior bulkheads and killing innocent bystanders, but this is more a matter of civilian saftey rather than anything else.

[Jason von Evil]

I never liked them because they don't look cool. Most scifi weapons have a nice looking casing.

[beyond hope]

The only other safety reason i can think of is preventing riccochets.

[Master of Ossus]

One would think that, rather than making very weak weapons, they could just make the hull more resilient.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why are hull beaches such a problem? I mean, if your hull is being breached by hand guns...

[Stormbringer]

Why are hull beaches such a problem? I mean, if your hull is being breached by hand guns...

The main problem is not hull main hull breaches but ricochets and breeching specialized environemnts.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Why are hull beaches such a problem? I mean, if your hull is being breached by hand guns...

The main problem is not hull main hull breaches but ricochets

I may be wrong but wouldn't strong weapons not ricochet?

and breeching specialized environemnts.

Since when to EA ships have them?

[Stormbringer]

Why are hull beaches such a problem? I mean, if your hull is being breached by hand guns...

The main problem is not hull main hull breaches but ricochets

I may be wrong but wouldn't strong weapons not ricochet?

I have no idea. I'm not a weapons extras.

and breeching specialized environemnts.

Since when to EA ships have them?

There are things like airlocks and what not. The fact that they don't richocet is probably the big reason.

[Sea Skimmer]

I think it is logical to have weapons that can kill a man (or alien) in one square shot, but won't breach the hull. Remember that this is Earth technology of a couple hundreds years from now. They don't have force fields that can hold the atmosphere if the hull is compromised.

We have handgun bullets that are quite lethal yet won't even go through the skin of a jet liner, today. I see little point to building a tiny little energy weapon to do the same thing.

[Kosh_The_Vorlon]

Since when to EA ships have them?

Er..The Methane section on B5?

[Stormbringer]

I think it is logical to have weapons that can kill a man (or alien) in one square shot, but won't breach the hull. Remember that this is Earth technology of a couple hundreds years from now. They don't have force fields that can hold the atmosphere if the hull is compromised.

We have handgun bullets that are quite lethal yet won't even go through the skin of a jet liner, today. I see little point to building a tiny little energy weapon to do the same thing.

That's entirely true, but would they take down someone in body armor? PPGs are designed to kill the target with hull breaches and ricochets not without damage.

[neoolong]

I think it is logical to have weapons that can kill a man (or alien) in one square shot, but won't breach the hull. Remember that this is Earth technology of a couple hundreds years from now. They don't have force fields that can hold the atmosphere if the hull is compromised.

We have handgun bullets that are quite lethal yet won't even go through the skin of a jet liner, today. I see little point to building a tiny little energy weapon to do the same thing.

The low velocity rounds?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Since when to EA ships have them?

Er..The Methane section on B5?

I highly doubt any other EA ship carries Vorlon ambassadors.

[beyond hope]

As pointed out with the PPGs, any bullet that will just splats against a hard target isn't going to get through body armor either. Then you're just back with the PPGs again.

[jaeger115]

I remember in one B5 episode when Sinclair went insane and lashed out at station personnel thinking they were Minbari and that the war was still on. He shot a PPG at a B5 crewmember. The bolt went into her right shoulderblade and you could see a red flash on the other side. Exit wounds, anyone?

[SyntaxVorlon]

Since when to EA ships have them?

Er..The Methane section on B5?

I highly doubt any other EA ship carries Vorlon ambassadors.

No, but some carry damagable cargo, explosive cargo, some have weaker hulls(though this would not be an issue) and most of all because these are all closed spinning environments so movement would be different.
Wong, next time you take a grenade and blow it up in a space station, we can give your family our condolences. Explosive charges would be a bad choice in a closed environment, they give off too much heat and smoke and cause unneeded stress on oxy filters and the surrounding bulkhead. Superheated, magnetically fired helium that in is kept nice and compact means little damage and very little oxygen loss.
Also PPGs and PPRs can be used EVA as none of you as considered this yet. If you wanted to use a normal slug thrower, you'd be out of luck, and if you used a rail gun you'd be flying off in the opposite direction.