Any logical reason for exposed bridges?

[Connor MacLeod]

Has anyone actually ever looked at the internal diagrams (like in the cross sections?) Its not easy to figure out where to put a bridge in there given that engines, reactors, weapons, hangars, and fuel tanks need to take up virtually all the internal space (and IIRC placing it close to the centerline of the ship is also rahter important, given it all weighs so fucking much.) That doesn't really leave much space for ideal placement.

That said, the DK books also specify its a deliberately showy gesture (we're so powerful we can afford an exposed bridge section.), but other books (VOTF IIRC) specify that there are also redundancy functions I believe (If they lose sensors, at worst they can look out the window, and some of the "windows" also have sensor/magnificaiton functions IIRC from "Slave Ship") It's not as if SW fights exclusively at "beyond visual range" - we've seen plenty of examples of "within visual range" engagements, even if they are sometimes considered close (or even point blank.). It's a design tradeoff, and it is a vulnerability, but its not without some benefits/uses. (And again, given internal design, there's not really many other places you could stick a bridge.)

As for Endor.. did anynone bother noticing that there was a great deal of arrogance and incompetence tied to why the Executor was lost? Piett didn't have the point defense operating at full capacity ("intensify forward firepower!") evidently relying on the escorts and shields to defend them. The Imperials (despite outgunning and outnumbering the Rebels) were holding back during the battle (due to the Emperor's own orders, again as noted in the movie.) It basically amounts to teh same thing as why Tarkin didn't deploy thousands of TIE fighters to swat the Rebels out of the sky in ANH.

[AirshipFanboy]

We already know that a single HTL hit means destruction of a (presumably unshielded) ship.

Then why didn't the Rebel cruisers start raking the Executor's tower when its bridge shields went down? You'd think they'd have at least *one* gun to shoot it with, even if it wasn't an HTL. Instead, they used fighters to plink at softer targetson the tower.

A-Wing kamikaze? That explosion was clearly not caused by the A-Wing's weapons, and the bridge tower structure was untouched.

We know the A-Wing didn't fire any shots at the bridge, but that doesn't mean that its weapons wouldn't do anything. That particular A-Wing could've had its cannons damaged, overheated, or simply run out of capacitor power.

[Straha]

An elevated bridge makes no difference whatsoever from a target perspective. Hell, even if you blow it up, an ISD has an auxilliary bridge.

Leaving the bridge open and unprotected like they do leaves the door wide open for possible decapitation strikes and for temporary loss of control in battle, and if your shields are down losing control for even a few minutes could be deadly (see the Executor as the perfect example here.)

We already know that a single HTL hit means destruction of a (presumably unshielded) ship. As for fighters, ten A-Wing concussion missiles - nuclear warheads mind you - only blew up a sensor dome on the Executor. That's pretty damn pitiful damage on an unshielded structure, though the limited explosion might have something to do with focused warheads.[/quotes]

Your points are seemingly contradictory here. One one hand an HTL will destroy an unshielded ship but on the other hand we have multiple instances of unshielded ship armor shrugging off nuclear style blasts with minor damage (see also the fusion rockets example mentioned in the armor thread.) I don't think that the ships are as delicate unshielded as you make them out to be. The rebel fleet was concentrating fire on the Executor yet they remained relatively intact and active in the battle despite their shields being down.

I don't have any hard data on the armor, nor does there appear to be any (hence why I started the armor thread.) How many scenes in canon do we have that we could use to get some hard data on armor strength? If we don't start quantifying this it will probably descend into mere contradiction instead of actually productive debate.



I personally am leaning towards the idea that it's not so much an "Officer Vs. Enlisted" thing but a cultural habit. Look at all the spaceships we've seen: the Falcon, the Jedi ship from TPM, the escape transports used in ESB, Amidala's yacht, the Tantive IV, the Mon Cal Cruisers, etc. Each one had a glass cockpit and exposed bridge despite the fact that viewscreens would have served just as well and been more useful. Further an adapted pleasure cruiser like the Mon Cal cruisers (if I recall correctly they were adapted pleasure cruisers) or the transports used in Empire Strikes Back would have no such sectional strife that you might imagine between an encrusted elite and enlisted folks. Most likely, in my opinion, it's a cultural tick that just wont go away, sort of like how many bank buildings were built to look like Ancient Greek/Roman temples, except this one has negative effects on fighting capabilities of the craft in question.

[Batman]

We already know that a single HTL hit means destruction of a (presumably unshielded) ship.

Then why didn't the Rebel cruisers start raking the Executor's tower when its bridge shields went down? You'd think they'd have at least *one* gun to shoot it with, even if it wasn't an HTL. Instead, they used fighters to plink at softer targetson the tower.

Or maybe the A-Wing just happened to be in position to make use of the lost bridge deflector while the rest of the fleet needed a few moments to notice/react/retarget/recharge/fire? Unless you want to argue the imperials didn't notice their shields were down for several minutes.

A-Wing kamikaze? That explosion was clearly not caused by the A-Wing's weapons, and the bridge tower structure was untouched.

We know the A-Wing didn't fire any shots at the bridge, but that doesn't mean that its weapons wouldn't do anything. That particular A-Wing could've had its cannons damaged, overheated, or simply run out of capacitor power.

You'd think it's weapons/reactor/fuel stores blowing up INSIDE the bridge would do considerably MORE damage than the fighter simply firing at it from the outside.

[Batman]

Some of them. It's painfully hard to see, and I didn't even notice them until I played Battlefront 2. They're big enough for the bridge itself and a turbolift up to it, and that's about it.

So because the designers of BF2 decided they needed a place for players to easily shoot at, that must be where Mon Cal bridges canonically are?

The designers of BF2 did not decide they needed a place for players to easily shoot at. Instead, they payed attention during the movie.

I note a distinct lack of the exposed module being labeled 'bridge'. It could be anything from a sensor station to an observation deck.
That image shows the Mon Cals HAVE those modules, nothing more.

[Davey]

A-Wing kamikaze? That explosion was clearly not caused by the A-Wing's weapons, and the bridge tower structure was untouched.

We know the A-Wing didn't fire any shots at the bridge, but that doesn't mean that its weapons wouldn't do anything. That particular A-Wing could've had its cannons damaged, overheated, or simply run out of capacitor power.

I noticed this, but I figured that the pilot was too busy trying to correct his spin to care about firing his weapons. I mean, come on, your ship has just been damaged, you're barrelling out-of-control straight for certain death right into the face of a ship that's many, many, many, many times the size of yours, and is bristling with enough firepower to blast your ship into subatomic particles many, many, many, many times over, I'm pretty sure you'd be more concerned about getting out alive than causing it damage, especially if the ship has resisted bombardment from other ships many times the size and firepower of yours.

[Straha]

We know the A-Wing didn't fire any shots at the bridge, but that doesn't mean that its weapons wouldn't do anything. That particular A-Wing could've had its cannons damaged, overheated, or simply run out of capacitor power.

Youtube has everything

At 4:31 of the video we see fighter shots against what appears to be a unshielded Star Destroyer tower causing lasting but, apparently, relatively minor damage...

[Oskuro]

The point that the decision to make exposed bridges comes from design inertia, or cultural influence, could be supported on certain tactical mistakes some characters make out of sheer arrogance:

Exibit A: Tarkin declines evacuating the Death Star, since he won't "flee in their moment of glory"

Exibit B: While chasing the Millenium Falcon, Vader orders the Executor to break out of the asteroid field so they can transmit a clear signal to the Emperor.

Exibit C: Not only does the Emperor himself hinder the fleet to further stroke his ego, but he also happened to sit in a flimsy tower wich, given the view from the window, could have been targetted once the shielding was down.


It seems reasonable that these leaders would demand that their ships meet their personal requirements, unreasonable and tactically unsound as they might be.

[nightmare]

We already know that a single HTL hit means destruction of a (presumably unshielded) ship.

Then why didn't the Rebel cruisers start raking the Executor's tower when its bridge shields went down? You'd think they'd have at least *one* gun to shoot it with, even if it wasn't an HTL. Instead, they used fighters to plink at softer targetson the tower.

The answer is rather clear. Note that only the bridge shields had gone out completely. Blasting the tower away with a HTL wouldn't be fatal to the Executor anyway. Nor would the fighters have been if not for the freak occurrance of engine misfire. In other words, when it happened, it was a lucky, unexpected stroke for the rebels, hence why they celebrated when they watched the Executor go down.

A-Wing kamikaze? That explosion was clearly not caused by the A-Wing's weapons, and the bridge tower structure was untouched.

We know the A-Wing didn't fire any shots at the bridge, but that doesn't mean that its weapons wouldn't do anything. That particular A-Wing could've had its cannons damaged, overheated, or simply run out of capacitor power.

It would have done practically nothing. Just compare the difference with two A-Wings firing their missiles into the dome with the bridge explosion, which left the entire structure intact, except for the inside, which was blasted through in such a way that a fireball came out from a side vent.

[nightmare]

Leaving the bridge open and unprotected like they do leaves the door wide open for possible decapitation strikes and for temporary loss of control in battle, and if your shields are down losing control for even a few minutes could be deadly (see the Executor as the perfect example here.)

Yes, this is correct. Except that there's an auxiliary bridge, which means that losing the bridge is not a decapitation strike. Losing the sensors would be far worse. Presumably, the bridge is not the only place with sensors.

We already know that a single HTL hit means destruction of a (presumably unshielded) ship. As for fighters, ten A-Wing concussion missiles - nuclear warheads mind you - only blew up a sensor dome on the Executor. That's pretty damn pitiful damage on an unshielded structure, though the limited explosion might have something to do with focused warheads.

Your points are seemingly contradictory here. One one hand an HTL will destroy an unshielded ship but on the other hand we have multiple instances of unshielded ship armor shrugging off nuclear style blasts with minor damage (see also the fusion rockets example mentioned in the armor thread.) I don't think that the ships are as delicate unshielded as you make them out to be. The rebel fleet was concentrating fire on the Executor yet they remained relatively intact and active in the battle despite their shields being down.

Movie canon shows HTL>ISD. Clearly, those fusion rockets aren't as powerful as powerful as a HTL blast.

I don't have any hard data on the armor, nor does there appear to be any (hence why I started the armor thread.) How many scenes in canon do we have that we could use to get some hard data on armor strength? If we don't start quantifying this it will probably descend into mere contradiction instead of actually productive debate.

Already back in ANH we got kiloton missiles just scorching the Death Star's armor, while X-wing lasers could rake a deflector tower effortlessly. But there's not a lot of examples of armor strength, unfortunately.

[Straha]

Leaving the bridge open and unprotected like they do leaves the door wide open for possible decapitation strikes and for temporary loss of control in battle, and if your shields are down losing control for even a few minutes could be deadly (see the Executor as the perfect example here.)

Yes, this is correct. Except that there's an auxiliary bridge, which means that losing the bridge is not a decapitation strike. Losing the sensors would be far worse. Presumably, the bridge is not the only place with sensors.

I'm afraid you either mis-interpreted me or my meaning was unclear. I meant decapitation strike as in losing the Commanding officer(s) of the ship and fleet in one fell swoop, as we saw happen with the Executor. Further loss of the main bridge engenders temporary loss of control over the ship putting the ship in grave danger if the ship is caught in close combat or if the ship is over a gravity well, again like the Executor was. Either way the risk is simply too much for too little benefit for there to be a logical reason for an exposed bridge.

Movie canon shows HTL>ISD. Clearly, those fusion rockets aren't as powerful as powerful as a HTL blast.

I'm not saying they're nearly as powerful as an HTL blast, I'm throwing a somewhat relevant fact out there that shows that the armor can shrug off nuclear blasts with no major effect. It shows that if there had been armor over the bridge in the tower they probably wouldn't have had to worry about being killed by a crashing A-Wing, all the more reason to have a covered bridge tower in case of shield failure.
I know there's the shot of the ISD in the background of the Battle of Endor just disappearing in a fireball but do we ever see any direct footage of an HTL strike on an ISD? I do know we see an ISD pound an unshielded Nebulon Frigate causing some long lasting explosions but aside from that do we have any direct evidence for judging HTL power against an ISD?

[nightmare]

I'm afraid you either mis-interpreted me or my meaning was unclear. I meant decapitation strike as in losing the Commanding officer(s) of the ship and fleet in one fell swoop, as we saw happen with the Executor. Further loss of the main bridge engenders temporary loss of control over the ship putting the ship in grave danger if the ship is caught in close combat or if the ship is over a gravity well, again like the Executor was. Either way the risk is simply too much for too little benefit for there to be a logical reason for an exposed bridge.

Ships would not normally be fighting in a gravity well, and in the case of the Executor, the Death Star's gravity could not possibly have been the reason for the dip into it. Consider 1) The Executor drove into the DS much too fast for it being gravity, unless it was immensely strong. 2) If the DS had such gravitational effect, Endor's moon would surely have been adversely affected. 3) We can hear a difference in the engine sound (simulated perhaps, but still reflecting "reality").

Finally, it's hard to imagine that losing the bridge would result in the loss of the entire command structure, much less the entire fleet, especially while having an auxilliary bridge. This didn't happen at Endor, even with a massively lucky (or force being with them according to some interpretations) strike for the rebels. In short, losing the bridge is not good, but it's by no means fatal under remotely normal circumstances. It's hardly worse than losing any other ship's system.

I'm not saying they're nearly as powerful as an HTL blast, I'm throwing a somewhat relevant fact out there that shows that the armor can shrug off nuclear blasts with no major effect. It shows that if there had been armor over the bridge in the tower they probably wouldn't have had to worry about being killed by a crashing A-Wing, all the more reason to have a covered bridge tower in case of shield failure.

Again, the bridge tower's structure was completely unaffected by the crashing A-Wing. It went through a comparatively tiny window, windows which must have since been reinforced, since the ISD-II transparisteel windows can take a VSD's capital concussion missile without breaking.

I know there's the shot of the ISD in the background of the Battle of Endor just disappearing in a fireball but do we ever see any direct footage of an HTL strike on an ISD? I do know we see an ISD pound an unshielded Nebulon Frigate causing some long lasting explosions but aside from that do we have any direct evidence for judging HTL power against an ISD?

Immediately prior to the fireball, we can see a large bolt strike the ISD. It can't get much clearer than that.

[Straha]

I'm afraid you either mis-interpreted me or my meaning was unclear. I meant decapitation strike as in losing the Commanding officer(s) of the ship and fleet in one fell swoop, as we saw happen with the Executor. Further loss of the main bridge engenders temporary loss of control over the ship putting the ship in grave danger if the ship is caught in close combat or if the ship is over a gravity well, again like the Executor was. Either way the risk is simply too much for too little benefit for there to be a logical reason for an exposed bridge.

Ships would not normally be fighting in a gravity well, and in the case of the Executor, the Death Star's gravity could not possibly have been the reason for the dip into it. Consider 1) The Executor drove into the DS much too fast for it being gravity, unless it was immensely strong. 2) If the DS had such gravitational effect, Endor's moon would surely have been adversely affected. 3) We can hear a difference in the engine sound (simulated perhaps, but still reflecting "reality").

Nonetheless gravity well fighting should be planned for, especially when the last major battle fought in the SW Galaxy was the Battle of Coruscant which was fought in the atmosphere of a planet.

As for it not being the Gravity Well that drops the Executor into the planet this only makes the case stronger for protected bridges. If loss of helm control in the bridge will so drastically effect the heading of the ship then it should be protected at all costs, especially if you expect the ship to fight in any sort of fleet formation.

Finally, it's hard to imagine that losing the bridge would result in the loss of the entire command structure, much less the entire fleet, especially while having an auxilliary bridge. This didn't happen at Endor, even with a massively lucky (or force being with them according to some interpretations) strike for the rebels. In short, losing the bridge is not good, but it's by no means fatal under remotely normal circumstances. It's hardly worse than losing any other ship's system.

I'm not saying the entire command structure, I'm saying the top levels of it. Loss of the Bridge in Endor, assuming the Executor had survived, would have entailed loss of at least Admiral Piett and the Captain of the Executor along with dozens of trained bridge crew. It's not going to kill everyone in the command structure but you don't need to kill everyone in the command structure to destabilize something. (Imagine, if you will, if Kirk, Scotty, Sulu and Chekov had died in TOS, the Enterprise would still have run but it would have been hurt badly until they were replaced and even after that. Or imagine if the U.S. lost the President, Secretary of State, and a couple senators and cabinet members. Sure the U.S. would still have a leader but the entire leadership structure would be shaken for sometime to come.)

Again, the bridge tower's structure was completely unaffected by the crashing A-Wing. It went through a comparatively tiny window, windows which must have since been reinforced, since the ISD-II transparisteel windows can take a VSD's capital concussion missile without breaking.

Youtube Battle of Endor Video

After the A-Wing impact (at roughly 6:35) we see massive secondary explosions in the bridge tower and then, as the Executor is crashing into the DS2, a spurt of flame longer than the tower itself originating in the tower. The external structure may be alright but I don't think the internal structure is holding up at all.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that if it was the loss of Executor's helm control from the bridge which drove it into the DS2 then that A-Wing -did- do a massive amount of damage to the bridge structure, just a little bit indirectly.

I know there's the shot of the ISD in the background of the Battle of Endor just disappearing in a fireball but do we ever see any direct footage of an HTL strike on an ISD? I do know we see an ISD pound an unshielded Nebulon Frigate causing some long lasting explosions but aside from that do we have any direct evidence for judging HTL power against an ISD?

Immediately prior to the fireball, we can see a large bolt strike the ISD. It can't get much clearer than that.

Ah, the Youtube video is shit and I didn't see that detail. Bugger.

[Connor MacLeod]

we don't quite know for sure the status of the ISD destroyed by that single HTL hit. The fact it blew up a noticable fraction of time AFTER the hit suggests it had some catastrophic failure. this may suggest immensely good penetration of armour without shields or other defensive measures (which is supported by other novels such as Isard's Revenge), but it won't neccesarily mean an ISD would go down immedaitely to a single HTL hit in every case.

The A-wing ramming the bridge evidently starts exploding PRIOR to impact.. and given the accelerative/performance capabilities of a ship, you can easily expect it to behave like a high MT/low GT explosive (depending on how much f uel is present and how much goes off, at least.) - a not-insignificant amount of energy to hit the bridge with. Moreover, it still has significant momentum which is ALSO an issue - both aspects seem to be held back ever so briefly before breaching the bridge (long enough for Piett to try to dive aside.)

In any case, I'm going to (yet again) bloody well point otu athat if one bothers to look at the cross sections of most SW ships, its not really possible to stick a bridge (or crew sections) in the most heavily protected areas - those places are all taken up by other systems. And the places remaining are not going to provide guaranteed protection agianst most heavy weapons without shields anyhow - not without significantly altering the silhoutte/profile of the ship, anyhow.

That said, the "command bridge" seems to be mainly for observation purposes (and mainly on command ships at that.) and the Executor in ROTJ was both a command ship and one that was not at full combat effectiveness (IE the bloody point defense issue again.). For all we know those "bridges" are not the primary/sole place ships are commanded from.

[nightmare]

Nonetheless gravity well fighting should be planned for, especially when the last major battle fought in the SW Galaxy was the Battle of Coruscant which was fought in the atmosphere of a planet.

Yes, but there wasn't a gravity well worth mentioning at Endor.

As for it not being the Gravity Well that drops the Executor into the planet this only makes the case stronger for protected bridges. If loss of helm control in the bridge will so drastically effect the heading of the ship then it should be protected at all costs, especially if you expect the ship to fight in any sort of fleet formation.

There's no reason to believe this was anything but a rather unique situation, and several reasons why.

I'm not saying the entire command structure, I'm saying the top levels of it. Loss of the Bridge in Endor, assuming the Executor had survived, would have entailed loss of at least Admiral Piett and the Captain of the Executor along with dozens of trained bridge crew. It's not going to kill everyone in the command structure but you don't need to kill everyone in the command structure to destabilize something. (Imagine, if you will, if Kirk, Scotty, Sulu and Chekov had died in TOS, the Enterprise would still have run but it would have been hurt badly until they were replaced and even after that. Or imagine if the U.S. lost the President, Secretary of State, and a couple senators and cabinet members. Sure the U.S. would still have a leader but the entire leadership structure would be shaken for sometime to come.)

It goes without saying that losing top officers is detrimental for the war effort. Again though, fighters are no credible threat even to an external bridge, and other capital ships will kill you anyway once the shields are out. They will cause damage to critical systems, but destroying the bridge? You realize that Executor's bridge is larger than many capital ships... the whole tower with neck is comparable to a dreadnaught in volume, and it doesn't have to be less armored as far as we know. ISD towers are not so much smaller and presumably the same goes for the Mon Cal ships.

After the A-Wing impact (at roughly 6:35) we see massive secondary explosions in the bridge tower and then, as the Executor is crashing into the DS2, a spurt of flame longer than the tower itself originating in the tower. The external structure may be alright but I don't think the internal structure is holding up at all.

Thanks, but I have a better version of the video, this wasn't exactly news. The A-Wing could never have achieved the same damage with its weapons, and I doubt it could ever have done it in any planned way. OOU, It's really a deus ex solution to have the rebels win. You're talking about a window which is barely noticeable in size from the outside, even up close. Hitting it with a heavy missile during typical jamming... pretty much a miracle when you look at how Vader's screens are flickering in ANH, even though he's right on top of the X-Wings, and Endor also had so heavy jamming that the rebels couldn't even get a reading on the DS2's shield. The only credible way to attack it that I can think of would be a co-ordinated fleet and fighter strike, taking passes specifically at hitting that window... when you could be, say, hitting the sensors instead. The A-Wing explosion was not a repeatable event unless you have skilled kamikaze pilots instead of missiles, and only because they aren't affected by jamming.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that if it was the loss of Executor's helm control from the bridge which drove it into the DS2 then that A-Wing -did- do a massive amount of damage to the bridge structure, just a little bit indirectly.

Massive damage which it could never have achieved with a normal attack...

[Terralthra]

Nonetheless gravity well fighting should be planned for, especially when the last major battle fought in the SW Galaxy was the Battle of Coruscant which was fought in the atmosphere of a planet.

Yes, but there wasn't a gravity well worth mentioning at Endor.

A battle is taking place near a moon-sized battle station orbiting an Earth-like planet, and there's "no gravity well worth mentioning"?

[Molyneux]

Hitting it with a heavy missile during typical jamming... pretty much a miracle when you look at how Vader's screens are flickering in ANH, even though he's right on top of the X-Wings, and Endor also had so heavy jamming that the rebels couldn't even get a reading on the DS2's shield.

How about dumb-firing the missile?

[NecronLord]

Nonetheless gravity well fighting should be planned for, especially when the last major battle fought in the SW Galaxy was the Battle of Coruscant which was fought in the atmosphere of a planet.

In fact, the exact same thing happened in the Battle of Coruscant. A ship lost control, and suddenly started flying towards a planet.

[nightmare]

Nonetheless gravity well fighting should be planned for, especially when the last major battle fought in the SW Galaxy was the Battle of Coruscant which was fought in the atmosphere of a planet.

Yes, but there wasn't a gravity well worth mentioning at Endor.

A battle is taking place near a moon-sized battle station orbiting an Earth-like planet, and there's "no gravity well worth mentioning"?

Yes indeed. Aside from a complete lack of effect on Endor's moon even at low orbit, there's the small fact that the DS2 was only partially completed and mostly empty anyway. Start calculating it and you'll see. The only thing not covered is the mass of the fuel... but again, no effect on Endor, and most of that mass is imaginary anyway. There's simply no way the DS2's gravity well was responsible for the pull.

Hitting it with a heavy missile during typical jamming... pretty much a miracle when you look at how Vader's screens are flickering in ANH, even though he's right on top of the X-Wings, and Endor also had so heavy jamming that the rebels couldn't even get a reading on the DS2's shield.

How about dumb-firing the missile?

One can try, but it's a small target. Even a very slight deviation in course means it'll miss, even if it's aimed perfectly from the start... jamming would affect that targeting, too.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And you're wrong with your flippant "no gravity well." First of all, the mass-energy is complex, and it does matter, Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy confirms that tidal effects altered the geography of Endor as the Death Star was constructed.

The correct answer is that the Death Star's gravity cannot possibly account for the high-acceleration of the Executor into the Death Star.

[RogueIce]

In fact, the exact same thing happened in the Battle of Coruscant. A ship lost control, and suddenly started flying towards a planet.

Well, at least the novel said that was a deliberately ordered dive into Coruscant.

[Lord Pounder]

I remember reading on one of the EU novels that there was an engine misfire due to battle damage just before the bridge was destroyed. I think it was in the Thrawn Trilogy which I don't have at the moment as I loaned it to a friend.

[The Original Nex]

I remember reading on one of the EU novels that there was an engine misfire due to battle damage just before the bridge was destroyed. I think it was in the Thrawn Trilogy which I don't have at the moment as I loaned it to a friend.

It was in the ROTJ Novelization IIRC.

[nightmare]

And you're wrong with your flippant "no gravity well." First of all, the mass-energy is complex, and it does matter, Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy confirms that tidal effects altered the geography of Endor as the Death Star was constructed.

The correct answer is that the Death Star's gravity cannot possibly account for the high-acceleration of the Executor into the Death Star.

It's "no gravity well worth mentioning", which is not the same thing as "no gravity well", especially in the right context. I've already given your answer.

I'm aware of the ITW, but it's questionable evidence at best, completely lacking from the movie. Finally, while accurately describing complex mass is a task that eludes me, it's most or all imaginary mass. Otherwise I'd pretty much expect the DS2 to kill planets by absorbing them... nevermind the recent canon which claims the DS sucks power from hyperspace. I *would* like to run some calcs on starship jumps to hyperspace with the assumption that it's all accountable mass, but alas, I have to study for finals or I won't get my certificate.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And you're wrong with your flippant "no gravity well." First of all, the mass-energy is complex, and it does matter, Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy confirms that tidal effects altered the geography of Endor as the Death Star was constructed.

The correct answer is that the Death Star's gravity cannot possibly account for the high-acceleration of the Executor into the Death Star.

It's "no gravity well worth mentioning", which is not the same thing as "no gravity well", especially in the right context. I've already given your answer.

HUR HUR HUR MY STANDARD OF A GRAVITY WELL WORTH MENTIONING IS COMPARABLE TO THE ENGINES OF THE SHIP HUR HUR.

Hey retard, the engines which crashed the ship in question put out 1000s of Gs; what gravity well is going to put that out. You're just backpeddling and creating artificial standards. "Gravity well worth mentioning" my ass.

I'm aware of the ITW, but it's questionable evidence at best, completely lacking from the movie. Finally, while accurately describing complex mass is a task that eludes me, it's most or all imaginary mass.

So? You can't do math with complex mass, but call it imaginary and your theoretical physics organ kicks in and can handwave to us? Stuff it. You're just pulling shit out of your ass. Hey clown, why do you think the astrophysicist who wrote the fucking book had it cause tidal effects, hm? Maybe because the COMPLEX MASS WILL CAUSE GRAVITATION.

Furthermore, how would you be able to DISPROVE the book from the movie? It said over the course of construction, lakes moved and there were earthquakes. Did we see any dry lake beds or earthquakes during the film? Does that prove they didn't occur during earlier, major periods of construction? No. Furthermore, the major tidal issues could have occurred before the installation of the repulsor system.

Otherwise I'd pretty much expect the DS2 to kill planets by absorbing them... nevermind the recent canon which claims the DS sucks power from hyperspace. I *would* like to run some calcs on starship jumps to hyperspace with the assumption that it's all accountable mass, but alas, I have to study for finals or I won't get my certificate.

Talk to Ender, he already did it. He calculated that the Death Stars' mass and gravitation is planet-comparable, which is not surprising simply from the recoil constraints. That we don't notice this in the Endor case means nothing, because we know they can change seasons (axial tilt) as a matter of course in planetary climate control. Controlling the orbits in a solar system to them is what stormwater management engineering is to us. Why do you think they later installed a bigass tractor/repulsor array beneath the Death Star? Maybe to manage the mass and gravitation issues?