Prosperity Gospel?

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LadyTevar
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Prosperity Gospel?

Post by LadyTevar »

This is here, instead of N&P, because I have the feeling it's gonna get a lot of discussion

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CNN wrote: Believer bitter over 'prosperity' preachings

(AP) -- The message flickered into Cindy Fleenor's living room each night: Be faithful in how you live and how you give, the television preachers said, and God will shower you with material riches.

And so the 53-year-old accountant from the Tampa, Florida, area pledged $500 a year to Joyce Meyer, the evangelist whose frank talk about recovering from childhood sexual abuse was so inspirational. She wrote checks to flamboyant faith healer Benny Hinn and a local preacher-made-good, Paula White.

Only the blessings didn't come. Fleenor ended up borrowing money from friends and payday loan companies just to buy groceries. At first she believed the explanation given on television: Her faith wasn't strong enough.

"I wanted to believe God wanted to do something great with me like he was doing with them," she said. "I'm angry and bitter about it. Right now, I don't watch anyone on TV hardly."

All three of the groups Fleenor supported are among six major Christian television ministries under scrutiny by a senator who is asking questions about the evangelists' lavish spending and possible abuses of their tax-exempt status.

The probe by Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, has brought new scrutiny to the underlying belief that brings in millions of dollars and fills churches from Atlanta to Los Angeles -- the "Gospel of Prosperity," or the notion that God wants to bless the faithful with earthly riches.

All six ministries under investigation preach the prosperity gospel to varying degrees.

Proponents call it a biblically sound message of hope. Others say it is a distortion that makes evangelists rich and preys on the vulnerable. They say it has evolved from "it's all right to make money" to it's all right for the pastor to drive a Bentley, live in an oceanside home and travel by private jet.

"More and more people are desperate and grasping at straws and want something that will alleviate their pain or financial crisis," said Michael Palmer, dean of the divinity school at Regent University, founded by Pat Robertson. "It's a growing problem."

The modern-day prosperity movement can largely be traced back to evangelist Oral Roberts' teachings. Roberts' disciples have spread his theology and vocabulary (Roberts and other evangelists, such as Meyer, call their donors "partners.") And several popular prosperity preachers, including some now under investigation, have served on the Oral Roberts University board.

Grassley is asking the ministries for financial records on salaries, spending practices, private jets and other perks. The investigation, coupled with a financial scandal at ORU that forced out Roberts' son and heir, Richard, has some wondering whether the prosperity gospel is facing a day of reckoning.

While few expect the movement to disappear, the scrutiny could force greater financial transparency and oversight in a movement known for secrecy.

Most scholars trace the origins of prosperity theology to E.W. Kenyon, an evangelical pastor from the first half of the 20th century.

But it wasn't until the postwar era -- and a pair of evangelists from Tulsa, Oklahoma -- that "health and wealth" theology became a fixture in Pentecostal and charismatic churches.

Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagin -- and later, Kenneth Copeland -- trained tens of thousands of evangelists with a message that resonated with an emerging middle class, said David Edwin Harrell Jr., a Roberts biographer. Copeland is among those now being investigated.

"What Oral did was develop a theology that made it OK to prosper," Harrell said. "He let Pentecostals be faithful to the old-time truths their grandparents embraced and be part of the modern world, where they could have good jobs and make money."

The teachings took on various names -- "Name It and Claim It," "Word of Faith," the prosperity gospel.

Prosperity preachers say that it isn't all about money -- that God's blessings extend to health, relationships and being well-off enough to help others.

They have Bible verses at the ready to make their case. One oft-cited verse, in Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians, reads: "Yet for your sakes he became poor, that you by his poverty might become rich."

Critics acknowledge the idea that God wants to bless his followers has a Biblical basis, but say prosperity preachers take verses out of context. The prosperity crowd also fails to acknowledge Biblical accounts that show God doesn't always reward faithful believers, Palmer said.

The Book of Job is a case study in piety unrewarded, and a chapter in the Book of Hebrews includes a litany of believers who were tortured and martyred, Palmer said.

Yet the prosperity gospel continues to draw crowds, particularly lower- and middle-income people who, critics say, have the greatest motivation and the most to lose. The prosperity message is spreading to black churches, attracting elderly people with disposable incomes, and reaching huge churches in Africa and other developing parts of the world.

One of the teaching's attractions is that it doesn't dwell on traditional Christian themes of heaven and hell but on answering pressing concerns of the here and now, said Brian McLaren, a liberal evangelical author and pastor.

But the prosperity gospel, McLaren said, not only preys on the hope of the vulnerable, it puts too much emphasis on individual success and happiness.

"We've pretty much ignored what the Bible says about systemic injustice," he said.

The checks and balances central to Christian denominations are largely lacking in prosperity churches. One of the pastors in the Grassley probe, Bishop Eddie Long of suburban Atlanta, has written that God told him to get rid of the "ungodly governmental structure" of a deacon board.

Some ministers hold up their own wealth as evidence that the teaching works. Atlanta-area pastor Creflo Dollar, who is fighting Grassley's inquiry, owns a Rolls Royce and multimillion-dollar homes and travels in a church-owned Learjet.

In a letter to Grassley, Dollar's attorney calls the prosperity gospel a "deeply held religious belief" grounded in Scripture and therefore a protected religious freedom. Grassley has said his probe is not about theology.

But even some prosperity gospel critics -- like the Rev. Adam Hamilton of 15,000-member United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in suburban Kansas City, Missouri -- say that the investigation is entering a minefield.

"How do you determine how much money a minister like this is able to make when the basic theology is that wealth is OK?" said Hamilton, an Oral Roberts graduate who later left the charismatic movement. "That gets into theological questions."

There is evidence of change. Joyce Meyer Ministries, for one, enacted financial reforms in recent years, including making audited financial statements public.

Meyer, who has promised to cooperate fully with Grassley, issued a statement emphasizing that a prosperity gospel "that solely equates blessing with financial gain is out of balance and could damage a person's walk with God."
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Post by Darth Wong »

Is "prayer for personal gain" really a new development? Didn't kings and princes pray to God in centuries past, asking for victory in battle?
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Post by Stark »

Ancient societies even *paid* for these blessings, through sacrifice and ritual. It's *always* been about a 'trade' with the supernatural: expecting them to give you money is just so crass it stands out as absurd.
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Re: Prosperity Gospel?

Post by CaptJodan »

At first she believed the explanation given on television: Her faith wasn't strong enough.
Oh that little gem. Yeah, that one plagued me for a little while. "You're just not praying/believing/trusting in God enough." One of my favorites.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Stark wrote:Ancient societies even *paid* for these blessings, through sacrifice and ritual. It's *always* been about a 'trade' with the supernatural: expecting them to give you money is just so crass it stands out as absurd.
Ever check out the infomercials for "No Evil Oil" from Danny Davis and "Divine Spring Water" from Peter Popoff? Danny Davis actually talks about "divine transfers", ie- "divine transfers of money into your bank account".
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by Cycloneman »

All three of the groups Fleenor supported are among six major Christian television ministries under scrutiny by a senator who is asking questions about the evangelists' lavish spending and possible abuses of their tax-exempt status.
Looks like this is the part that makes the prosperity gospel worth writing an article about.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Cycloneman wrote:
All three of the groups Fleenor supported are among six major Christian television ministries under scrutiny by a senator who is asking questions about the evangelists' lavish spending and possible abuses of their tax-exempt status.
Looks like this is the part that makes the prosperity gospel worth writing an article about.
Frankly, the churches' general tax-exempt status has always been bullshit anyway. If a church wants to do charitable activity they should have to register and document their activities like any secular charity. They shouldn't get an automatic pass just because they're religious.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Darth Wong wrote:Is "prayer for personal gain" really a new development? Didn't kings and princes pray to God in centuries past, asking for victory in battle?
Or the whole issue of Alimonies. (I think that's what it was called, forking over cash to priests for "passes" on sins, and to go to heaven yourself, or to get a pass on your sins, by having priests pray for you, say for your victory).

Anyone thinking this is new (although the scale has varied) needs his stockings checked.
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Post by Stark »

DEATH wrote: Or the whole issue of Alimonies. (I think that's what it was called, forking over cash to priests for "passes" on sins, and to go to heaven yourself, or to get a pass on your sins, by having priests pray for you, say for your victory).

Anyone thinking this is new (although the scale has varied) needs his stockings checked.
'Indulgences'. Ailmony is what you pay your ex-wife, I believe. :) An indulgence for sin used to be granted sparingly and for some service (ie, First Crusade), but was later popularised as a political tool and moneymaker of the Papacy.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

DEATH wrote:Or the whole issue of Alimonies. (I think that's what it was called, forking over cash to priests for "passes" on sins, and to go to heaven yourself, or to get a pass on your sins, by having priests pray for you, say for your victory).
I believe you are referring to Indulgences?
Indulgences

The word indulgence (Latin indulgentia, from indulgeo, to be kind or tender) originally meant kindness or favor; in post-classic Latin it came to mean the remission of a tax or debt. In Roman law and in the Vulgate of the Old Testament (Isaiah 61:1) it was used to express release from captivity or punishment. In theological language also the word is sometimes employed in its primary sense to signify the kindness and mercy of God. But in the special sense in which it is here considered, an indulgence is a remission of the temporal punishment due to sin, the guilt of which has been forgiven. Among the equivalent terms used in antiquity were pax, remissio, donatio, condonatio.
WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS NOT

To facilitate explanation, it may be well to state what an indulgence is not. It is not a permission to commit sin, nor a pardon of future sin; neither could be granted by any power. It is not the forgiveness of the guilt of sin; it supposes that the sin has already been forgiven. It is not an exemption from any law or duty, and much less from the obligation consequent on certain kinds of sin, e.g., restitution; on the contrary, it means a more complete payment of the debt which the sinner owes to God. It does not confer immunity from temptation or remove the possibility of subsequent lapses into sin. Least of all is an indulgence the purchase of a pardon which secures the buyer's salvation or releases the soul of another from Purgatory. The absurdity of such notions must be obvious to any one who forms a correct idea of what the Catholic Church really teaches on this subject.
WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS

An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive. Regarding this definition, the following points are to be noted:

* In the Sacrament of Baptism not only is the guilt of sin remitted, but also all the penalties attached to sin. In the Sacrament of Penance the guilt of sin is removed, and with it the eternal punishment due to mortal sin; but there still remains the temporal punishment required by Divine justice, and this requirement must be fulfilled either in the present life or in the world to come, i.e., in Purgatory. An indulgence offers the penitent sinner the means of discharging this debt during his life on earth.
* Some writs of indulgence--none of them, however, issued by any pope or council (Pesch, Tr. Dogm., VII, 196, no. 464)--contain the expression, "indulgentia a culpa et a poena", i.e. release from guilt and from punishment; and this has occasioned considerable misunderstanding (cf. Lea, "History" etc. III, 54 sqq.). The real meaning of the formula is that, indulgences presupposing the Sacrament of Penance, the penitent, after receiving sacramental absolution from the guilt of sin, is afterwards freed from the temporal penalty by the indulgence (Bellarmine, "De Indulg"., I, 7). In other words, sin is fully pardoned, i.e. its effects entirely obliterated, only when complete reparation, and consequently release from penalty as well as from guilt, has been made. Hence Clement V (1305-1314) condemned the practice of those purveyors of indulgences who pretended to absolve" a culpa et a poena" (Clement, I. v, tit. 9, c. ii); the Council of Constance (1418) revoked (Sess. XLII, n. 14) all indulgences containing the said formula; Benedict XIV (1740-1758) treats them as spurious indulgences granted in this form, which he ascribes to the illicit practices of the "quaestores" or purveyors (De Syn. dioeces., VIII, viii. 7).
* The satisfaction, usually called the "penance", imposed by the confessor when he gives absolution is an integral part of the Sacrament of Penance; an indulgence is extra-sacramental; it presupposes the effects obtained by confession, contrition, and sacramental satisfaction. It differs also from the penitential works undertaken of his own accord by the repentant sinner -- prayer, fasting, alms-giving -- in that these are personal and get their value from the merit of him who performs them, whereas an indulgence places at the penitent's disposal the merits of Christ and of the saints, which form the "Treasury" of the Church.
* An indulgence is valid both in the tribunal of the Church and in the tribunal of God. This means that it not only releases the penitent from his indebtedness to the Church or from the obligation of performing canonical penance, but also from the temporal punishment which he has incurred in the sight of God and which, without the indulgence, he would have to undergo in order to satisfy Divine justice. This, however, does not imply that the Church pretends to set aside the claim of God's justice or that she allows the sinner to repudiate his debt. As St. Thomas says (Suppl., xxv. a. 1 ad 2um), "He who gains indulgences is not thereby released outright from what he owes as penalty, but is provided with the means of paying it." The Church therefore neither leaves the penitent helplessly in debt nor acquits him of all further accounting; she enables him to meet his obligations.
* In granting an indulgence, the grantor (pope or bishop) does not offer his personal merits in lieu of what God demands from the sinner. He acts in his official capacity as having jurisdiction in the Church, from whose spiritual treasury he draws the means wherewith payment is to be made. The Church herself is not the absolute owner, but simply the administratrix, of the superabundant merits which that treasury contains. In applying them, she keeps in view both the design of God's mercy and the demands of God's justice. She therefore determines the amount of each concession, as well as the conditions which the penitent must fulfill if he would gain the indulgence.
Far as I know, "alimonies" only refers to monies paid to a former spouse.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

Do-eth, what Stark just said. :D
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Re: Prosperity Gospel?

Post by Junghalli »

CaptJodan wrote:Oh that little gem. Yeah, that one plagued me for a little while. "You're just not praying/believing/trusting in God enough." One of my favorites.
It makes a great justification for plutocracy. I'm rich because I'm a good person with strong faith, that bum is a bum because he's an evil man of weak faith. Somehow I'm not surprised it's catchy in the US.
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Post by Setzer »

"Don't blame us. Blame yourself or God"

A quote from FFT that seems appropriate.
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Post by Stile »

Randi has a clip about this in one of the latest SWIFTS. Got to about 2:30 and the hilarity ensues. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15u6fHkICxc
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Post by The Spartan »

Yeah, I occasionally see TV commercials for one of the churches around here, don't recall which one, where the pastor says something to the effect of, "It is god's perfect wisdom that your cup overflows." That's really more of a paraphrase than a direct quote, but those were the words he used, "perfect wisdom" and "overflows".
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Spartan wrote:Yeah, I occasionally see TV commercials for one of the churches around here, don't recall which one, where the pastor says something to the effect of, "It is god's perfect wisdom that your cup overflows." That's really more of a paraphrase than a direct quote, but those were the words he used, "perfect wisdom" and "overflows".
And of course, when bad things happen, God is "testing" you, like Job. No matter what happens, God did it, and it's good!
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by Edi »

The Spartan wrote:Yeah, I occasionally see TV commercials for one of the churches around here, don't recall which one, where the pastor says something to the effect of, "It is god's perfect wisdom that your cup overflows." That's really more of a paraphrase than a direct quote, but those were the words he used, "perfect wisdom" and "overflows".
Note that it doesn't say what it is in your cup that overflows, so it applies to both prosperity and everything going to shit equally well.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Isn't it ironic that the group that routinely preaches AGAINST naturalistic materialism, is also the biggest benefactor from such mortal riches?

I'm all against rampant consumerism and material gain, given how it's fucking our planet over. I just find it hilarious these people are probably one of the major players in such wealth grabs.
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Post by Mange »

The Spartan wrote:Yeah, I occasionally see TV commercials for one of the churches around here, don't recall which one, where the pastor says something to the effect of, "It is god's perfect wisdom that your cup overflows." That's really more of a paraphrase than a direct quote, but those were the words he used, "perfect wisdom" and "overflows".
A little OT perhaps, but one thing I love about the televangelists etc. is that they got it completely wrong compared with what Jesus supposedly said:
Matthew 6:5 wrote:And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
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Post by Mange »

Darn, I forgot Matthew 6:6
Matthew 6:6 wrote:But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
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