Is this a good wireless router?

Post by **Edi** » 2008-01-03 06:10pm

If half the stuff you guys are talking about in this thread is what I think it is, we Finns are fucking spoiled. We've got a couple of domestic router manufacturers whose products generally wipe the floor with the foreign competition without even noticing.

Telewell especially makes some really kickass stuff, their newer devices have multiple SSID support right out of the box and all the other crap you could possibly want and Type 8 default configs to boot. Used to be we called them Telehell a couple of years ago, but they've really shaped up. These things have been tested to be fucking idiot proof in practice, because I deal with clueless morons using these things every day and NEVER a problem unless it's hardware failure. If I ever need to buy any ADSL equipment, it'll be from them. No other manufacturer need apply.

A-Link is decent, but just doesn't cut it compared to TW. Then Zyxel, and then everyone else, with D-Link the absolute bottom of the pack so far.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-01-03 06:17pm

That sounds pretty awesome. Even Linksys routers, which are good hardware, usually ship with absurd 'family friendly' inflexible firmware of fail.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-04 04:31pm

The plan right now is:

1 Order a wrt54gl online - the shipping's expensive, but hey...
2 Flash router with Openwrt/X-wrt
3 Set up some decent security and that virtual AP thingy
4 ?
5 Moneys and womens!

Is this viable? Would this be within my abilities? I'm vaguely familiar with Linux and can find my way through a command line with a manual, but that's about it.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-01-04 04:41pm

Check the documentation for the firmware and features you want first. It'll all be online, but if it's written by idiots you'll quickly realise you won't be able to follow them.

But even in that case, it's still a solid router. I can't use my DS online, and you know what? Still got moneys and womens.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-04 04:48pm

The firmware upgrade can be done via the web GUI, so that looks foolproof. Even if I can't get the advanced features to work at least I'll have WPA.

Still got moneys and womens.

But without WFC, is that really a life worth living?

...

Please don't answer that. I need my illusions.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-01-04 04:49pm

Yah, I've got no experience with custom firmwares but I've seen lots of routers with not-very-easy-to-use replacement firmware, so at least poke around and see what you'll be expected to do to set it up afterward.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2008-01-04 05:54pm

Edi, is any of your finish stuff availible, or, failing that, usable, in the US? I could see myself liking some of what you described in the event my beloved WRT54GL does go off the market.

Regarding custom firmware, I use Tomato, which has a slick UI and works rather well, but before I used it, I briefly tried DD-WRT. I was put off by two things: the ugly, overcomplicated web UI, and the fact that the DHCP daemon failed to work, completely.

With Tomato, I get a slick interface, and also, if that fails, I can ssh and access a Busybox Unix-like environment (with vi and other goodies). My routers run the JFFS2 filesystem and as a result, its actually possible to store a small amount of data on them. You could, theoretically, use them for general computing purposes, and I know of people who use them as SSH gateways for windows boxes, and for other eccentric purposes.

I know one guy at the local SCLUG who is running a WRT54GL with the wireless disabled, using the 2.6 kernel, using it it for some networking purpose, the specifics of it I can't immediately recall.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2008-01-04 06:00pm

I know I'm lttp here, but I'll second the Buffalo recommendation (if you can find one).

I'll second the dd-wrt recommendation over other custom firmwares too.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-01-04 06:14pm

RThurmont wrote:Edi, is any of your finish stuff availible, or, failing that, usable, in the US? I could see myself liking some of what you described in the event my beloved WRT54GL does go off the market.

Regarding custom firmware, I use Tomato, which has a slick UI and works rather well, but before I used it, I briefly tried DD-WRT. I was put off by two things: the ugly, overcomplicated web UI, and the fact that the DHCP daemon failed to work, completely.

With Tomato, I get a slick interface, and also, if that fails, I can ssh and access a Busybox Unix-like environment (with vi and other goodies). My routers run the JFFS2 filesystem and as a result, its actually possible to store a small amount of data on them. You could, theoretically, use them for general computing purposes, and I know of people who use them as SSH gateways for windows boxes, and for other eccentric purposes.

I know one guy at the local SCLUG who is running a WRT54GL with the wireless disabled, using the 2.6 kernel, using it it for some networking purpose, the specifics of it I can't immediately recall.

That sounds pretty nice - it's really not hard to do better than most HTML-based UIs, but I've seen some real hackjob obtuse firmwares. I guess I should start messing around with them and learn something.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-01-04 06:16pm

Shipping expensive o.O? Aren't there Belgium based online computer places? Last link posted was Netherlands (for

If you're going to buy online, why not get a better router and/or cheaper router than the GL? Other than the buffalo, there's also Asus....

http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=73

The specs do seem better on the WHR-G125 compared to the WHR-G54S (faster CPU) and they cost the same, which might reduce dropouts when WPA is enabled. The only firmware at the moment which works on it is DD-WRT though.

The specs on the WHR-G54S look the same as the WRT-54GL (besides antenna differences that might not be listed), go w/ whatever is cheaper but read reviews elsewhere first.

As for firmware ease of use, DD-WRT I find is easy to use. OpenWRT- not really, though it is *considerably* more flexible (basically sort of like Debian for a router). Got tired of SSHing in though and typing a series of commands to change settings, then tried the addon webinterface which sucked and switched over to DD-WRT since I didn't really use the more advanced features regularly. Haven't tried other firmwares.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2008-01-05 03:58am

I'm going to post screenshots of my routers at some point in the near futuer, so you can see -exactly- what Tomato Firmware looks like, both from the WUI and from the shell.

The shell itself is ash, and the userland is basically Busybox.

Regarding other routers, I really am curious about those Buffalo and ASUS units, and I plan on trying them in the future. I don't want to sound like a WRT54GL partisan, however, I am using them at present with some degree of success (and Fry's they cost $60), so I can, with absolute honestly, heartily reccommend them.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-05 04:20am

Shipping expensive o.O? Aren't there Belgium based online computer places?

€15 shipping on a €60 router? If the alternative is picking it up myself, I'd call that expensive.

It doesn't look like there are a lot of Buffalo retailers in Belgium. I can get the whr-g54s for peanuts on Amazon Germany but they won't ship to Belgium

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-05 05:25am

I've been looking around all morning and the Buffalo router doesn't really seem to be a viable option. The specs look great and so does the price, but so far I've found precisely one store who carries it and they're out of stock.

I did find I can get the wrt54gl in 48 hours for a decent price. Will the 4MB flash hurt me in any real way?

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-01-05 05:38am

Not really, the selling point of the WHR-HP is signal strength, while the G125 is faster CPU (and more stable when encryption enabled as result)- they all have roughly the same about of memory I think. 4 megs flash/16 megs RAM is the minimum for custom firmware though- DD-WRT micro edition will run on 2 flash, but it's cut down , and you can't run the other firmwares.

If you can't find a low end buffalo anywhere just go w/ the Linksys GL, time is money after all

Apparently due to a patent lawsuit by the Oz guberment no new buffalo routers for the US

. Well, there's Asus as a Linksys alternative for now if they nerf or discontinue the GL.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-01-05 05:51am

As for which firmware, here are vs threads: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r181905 ... -vs-140-fw
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1245332

Basically Tomato sounds snappier and prettier w/ less features.

I don't think Tomato has VAP either- the QoS support in the GUI does seem to be better though- there's always the CLI though...

Also, http://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=3154 will interest you regarding VAPs

I might dump DD-WRT and go back to OpenWRT if I have time to kill, maybe the webUI has improved

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-05 10:29am

I made the order. Apparently, Linux routers pose a "heightened security risk", and I may be "contacted by phone or email for additional questions".

What.

The.

Fuck

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2008-01-06 08:32pm

That's a tad bizarre. Would you care sharing with us the name of the company you bought it from (I'm guessing you bought a WRT54GL), and the full text of the message you received (with personal info redacted, of course)?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-07 04:14am

The message only appeared on the initial order confirmation page, and I can't find it in the account page or the confirmation email. The company is Pixmania.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-10 11:16am

It's up and running, with... hiccups. Apparently my old router doubled as a modem, despite this not being mentioned *anywhere* in what pathetic little documentation I could find. So now I'm using a spare of the model - the one I'd been using since the original blew - with all wireless disabled and a network cable running to the Linksys; basically, it's a modem/router setup, except the modem has a crappy wireless part that's been disabled.

Not elegant, but at least I now have decent encryption and usable wireless range.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2008-01-10 11:51am

I don't see what is so inelegant about that. I run cat5 from my cable modem to one of my WRT54Gs, and I've had a similiar arrangement since I first started using cable broadband in 2004.

My current plan is actually to get a DSL line in here, for redundancy, and then use a converted desktop as a firewall.

Post by **Edi** » 2008-01-10 01:34pm

RThurmont wrote:Edi, is any of your finish stuff availible, or, failing that, usable, in the US? I could see myself liking some of what you described in the event my beloved WRT54GL does go off the market.

Available in the US, I don't think so. At least Telewell is currently strictly domestic market player only. The A-Link web site seems to indicate that they might be available in the US, but I'm not certain. Both companies products would be usable there. Both Telewell and A-Link devices support all common network protocols right out of the box, just configure as you need.

Telewell home page
A-Link home page

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2008-01-11 03:19pm

Bounty wrote:It's up and running, with... hiccups. Apparently my old router doubled as a modem, despite this not being mentioned *anywhere* in what pathetic little documentation I could find. So now I'm using a spare of the model - the one I'd been using since the original blew - with all wireless disabled and a network cable running to the Linksys; basically, it's a modem/router setup, except the modem has a crappy wireless part that's been disabled.

Not elegant, but at least I now have decent encryption and usable wireless range.

If thats the case, make sure you're on a different subnet. (ie: 192.168.1.1 for the "modem", and 192.168.2.1 for the router) Otherwise you're going to have NAT issues.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-11 03:28pm

I already did that, thanks. I also swapped in a real modem, it's a lot less clumsy than two routers stacked on top of each other.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-11 04:29pm

Okay, one more question: when I connect to the router from my Windows partition, I get an IP and get online just fine, but the wireless dialog and the task bar icon get stuck on "acquiring network address".

Should I be worried or just ignore this?

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2008-01-12 01:08pm

Your problem, Bounty, I'd rather suspect, is a Windows glitch. I'm certain it has nothing to do with the router.