Inestimable Privilege. In an extraordinary decision, Judge Camarata denied the Burkes' right to the child because of their lack of belief in a Supreme Being. Despite the Burkes' "high moral and ethical standards," he said, the New Jersey state constitution declares that "no person shall be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience." Despite Eleanor Katherine's tender years, he continued, "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."
This logic opens some very disturbing questions. Could an atheist have their biological children taken away from them lest they influence their children's religion? Could a religious fanatic like Fred Phelps, who probably SHOULD have had his children taken away, lose his children so he wouldn't raise them as religious loonies who picket funerals and tell us all we're going to hell? Is this even constitutional?
If they fail in their appeal, Eleanor Katherine may have to leave the only family she has ever known and await adoption by another couple whose religious convictions satisfy the State of New Jersey.
There is no separation of church and state anymore, and in a New England state, which is among our nation's historically most liberal states, to boot. I wonder if Satanism or Wahhabism would satisfy this judge's "belief in a Supreme Being."
That has to be the most horrifically stupid thing I have heard of in many years. The sheer idiocy of it astounds me. How the bloody hell anyone can get away with that in this day and age........
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Article wrote:Inestimable Privilege. In an extraordinary decision, Judge Camarata denied the Burkes' right to the child because of their lack of belief in a Supreme Being. Despite the Burkes' "high moral and ethical standards," he said, the New Jersey state constitution declares that "no person shall be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience." Despite Eleanor Katherine's tender years, he continued, "the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit, and not be influenced by prospective parents who do not believe in a Supreme Being."
This would seem to me to logically ban placing the girl in ANY home. After all, if they put her in the home of any household, particularly a religious one, it will definitely effect her religious attitudes. Does this judge thing that plopping her in a Baptist home or a Catholic home isn't going to effect the "dictates of [her] own conscience" when it comes to religion or less so than an athiest home? That's just too stupid for words. This judge should be canned for being stupid alone, to say nothing of being a religious bigot.
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At loss of words. What? That's... uncommon cruelty I'd say. I mean, even a second-world shithole court wouldn't go as far as deny children to an atheist. This is really ridiculous: "religious convictions satisfy the State of New Jersey"? What the hell?
...the child should have the freedom to worship as she sees fit
Worship God is a freedom. Not worshipping him? Heresy! I love the religious mindset.
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I'm not surprised by this. I'm tired of people who tell me that I'm exaggerating the level of Christian bigotry in America. The fact is that Christian bigotry is so widespread in America that it's woven right into the social fabric. Assumptions like "atheists = bad parents" are so commonplace that they don't even need to be stated; they're simply taken for granted until someone challenges them, at which point he is declared a "pushy atheist" or "an atheist with a chip on his shoulder".
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Dartzap wrote:That has to be the most horrifically stupid thing I have heard of in many years. :shock: The sheer idiocy of it astounds me. How the bloody hell anyone can get away with that in this day and age........
This didn't happen in "this day and age". Look at the date line on the right hand side: it says "Monday, Dec. 07, 1970".
"Stop! No one can survive these deadly rays!"
"These deadly rays will be your death!"
- Thor and Akton, Starcrash
"Before man reaches the moon your mail will be delivered within hours from New York to California, to England, to India or to Australia by guided missiles.... We stand on the threshold of rocket mail."
- Arthur Summerfield, US Postmaster General 1953 - 1961
Oh, good catch. I didn't bother reading the whole article, so I didn't notice the date.
Yeah, 1970 was pretty backward. Younger people often don't realize how different society was only a few decades ago. You often hear them laughing openly at the idea that certain kinds of bigotry could be real, or as bad as older people say. If they had lived through that era, they would know. Back in 1970, you could go to jail for making pornography. A man of Chinese descent walking into a store might be addressed as "Hey, Chinaman" to his face. The word "nigger" was still considered an acceptable way for white people to refer to black people in much of society (of course, today it is considered an acceptable way for black people to refer to themselves; how fucked up is that). Racial violence took place in schoolyards while teachers looked the other way. School prayer was still commonplace.
Small wonder the white conservatives think everything was better back then.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I didn't actually catch it myself, but the same story was posted to RichardDawkins.net and someone in its comments thread noticed the date.
"Stop! No one can survive these deadly rays!"
"These deadly rays will be your death!"
- Thor and Akton, Starcrash
"Before man reaches the moon your mail will be delivered within hours from New York to California, to England, to India or to Australia by guided missiles.... We stand on the threshold of rocket mail."
- Arthur Summerfield, US Postmaster General 1953 - 1961
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:Well, it looks like everyone who posted in this thread got owned.
Sort of. It's still quite true that there are plenty of people in America who believe that atheists are unfit parents. Moreover, cases quite similar to this are still turning up today:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote:What's truly sad is that people believed that this was a modern-day story.
Did you read my link? It could easily have been one. Also recall the names of judges like Roy Moore. There are shitload of asshat religious judges in the US.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I read this over at Pharyngula a few days ago and I remember that some people went nuts after it was revealed that the date had been misinterpreted. However, this is just as valid today as it was in 1970.
The only difference between this story and a modern one is that modern stories usually involve discrimination against atheists in divorce court rather than adoption cases. And that happens all the fucking time; if an atheist parent is pitted against a Christian parent in front of a Christian judge over a custody battle, odds are that the Christian parent will win.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Fleet Admiral JD wrote:What's truly sad is that people believed that this was a modern-day story.
I think he meant that it's sad that it doesn't sound incredible to the point that anyone really questioned its legitimacy as a current issue, rather than something from almost 40 years ago.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
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-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Rihannsu Science Officer wrote:There is no separation of church and state anymore, and in a New England state, which is among our nation's historically most liberal states, to boot.
New England is made up of Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connecticut.
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
Did Judge Camarata NOT read the Bill of Rights, specifically, the part that states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? The Supreme Court better overturn his ruling-- I don't want to end up in a concentration camp for being non-Christian.
Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.
They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
Sidewinder wrote:Did Judge Camarata NOT read the Bill of Rights, specifically, the part that states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? The Supreme Court better overturn his ruling-- I don't want to end up in a concentration camp for being non-Christian.
Yeah... Read the thread, stupid.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
I thought this was that 1970's story; it's been making the rounds of the Internet since some glitch popped it to the top on the Time website. And no, times haven't changed that much; on one forum the discussion turned immediately to atheist's near-inability to adopt even now. The general recommendation being "lie, or join the Unitarians".
The sheer idiocy of it astounds me. How the bloody hell anyone can get away with that in this day and age........
Worship God is a freedom. Not worshipping him? Heresy! I love the religious mindset.
