How large a technological gap is believable?

[Ryan Thunder]

We've seen it. Lightsabres, starships, and... massed spear formations.

So, at what point does the disparity become unacceptable?

For example, I have a 'universe' if you will, where there's 'leftover' factories with resource stockpiles churning out things like working levitation devices that will run virtually indefinitely under the right power. People in general have figured out electricity but they're still working on other stuff, and haven't the faintest clue how to get the factories to do anything but create these machines.

In the meantime, they've got an understanding of medicine, the need to keep things clean, etc, but are otherwise in a technological state befitting the Middle Ages.

Plausible? If not, what would fix it?

[Darth Ruinus]

I dont know, but, electricity for the middle ages seem kinda odd?

Still, Im not sure what you are asking, how big the gap can be between two different civilizations or something else entirely?

[Darth Smiley]

Where do the factories get raw materials/energy?
And where the hell did the original owners go?

As long as you answer that, you are pretty much good. Having technological disconnects isn't that bad, as long as there is some kind of reason.

Though I do not wish to steal Nyrath's thunder....obligatory Atomic Rockets Link

[Ford Prefect]

And if you find you cannot satisfactorily explain how the factories are working, why not just stick with stockpiles which can't be replenished?

[Ryan Thunder]

I dont know, but, electricity for the middle ages seem kinda odd?

Sure it's odd, but I see no particular reason why somebody couldn't have discovered it earlier than what's-his-name did.

Which is why I'm asking the question.

Still, Im not sure what you are asking, how big the gap can be between two different civilizations or something else entirely?

Sorry if I wasn't clear; I'm asking how wide a gap within a civilization's own technology is believable.

Obviously, a space faring nation with forces that include both lightsabres and spear formations is utterly retarded, for example.

At where is the disparity acceptable, and at what point does it become ridiculous?

[Darth Wong]

At where is the disparity acceptable, and at what point does it become ridiculous?

It becomes ridiculous when even a retarded monkey could find a way to use technology A to outperform technology B, yet they are still limited to technology B anyway.

[Ryan Thunder]

Where do the factories get raw materials/energy?
And where the hell did the original owners go?

To answer your first question; they run off of a power source my poor peons couldn't hope to understand. Fusion or somesuch. There's enough 'fuel' for tens of thousands of years of operation. The resources were there to begin with/the aliens put it there for shits and giggles. The historians and archeologists aren't sure which.
2. They're dead. Blew themselves away in the obligatory atomigeddon. Some of the factories survived. Those who took shelter in them did not.

[Ryan Thunder]

And if you find you cannot satisfactorily explain how the factories are working, why not just stick with stockpiles which can't be replenished?

An interesting idea, I might go with that.

Towards the end of the story arc the factories start running out of resources and everybody goes crazy for a few decades until they can figure out the last few things they need to understand to build their own factories.

The trick is, they have to be stored in some way that they could survive a global nuclear war, and yet simple enough that a curious peon could potentially find it and recover it without overly complex technology.

[Darth Smiley]

In that case, the larger the gap, the better, as it means the poor peons are less likely to understand any of it, and would thus continue using their 'low' technology.

Of course, the factories need to be user friendly. I can't imagine any only peon going into a high-tech factory and getting ANY of the machines to run without breaking something. You also need to account for maintenance - a factory can't run nonstop without repairs for a week, let alone a millennium.

[Darth Ruinus]

And if you find you cannot satisfactorily explain how the factories are working, why not just stick with stockpiles which can't be replenished?

An interesting idea, I might go with that.

Towards the end of the story arc the factories start running out of resources and everybody goes crazy for a few decades until they can figure out the last few things they need to understand to build their own factories.

The trick is, they have to be stored in some way that they could survive a global nuclear war, and yet simple enough that a curious peon could potentially find it and recover it without overly complex technology.

Seems kinda odd that the factories can survive global nuclear war, yet the aliens who built them died in an "atomigeddon"

You could just say that, the aliens simply forgot about that factory there. If they own lots and lots of space, I see no reason why there would be cases where a factory is suddenly lost, or some colony lossing its lines of communications, however odd that sounds.

[Darth Ruinus]

Still, Im not sure what you are asking, how big the gap can be between two different civilizations or something else entirely?

Sorry if I wasn't clear; I'm asking how wide a gap within a civilization's own technology is believable.

Obviously, a space faring nation with forces that include both lightsabres and spear formations is utterly retarded, for example.

At where is the disparity acceptable, and at what point does it become ridiculous?[/quote]

Well, it could be possible that they are flying around in flying cars, but dont know how to build them, or have electricity based on some stuff in that factory.

[Darth Ruinus]

Damn, I failed that quote function.

[Ryan Thunder]

And if you find you cannot satisfactorily explain how the factories are working, why not just stick with stockpiles which can't be replenished?

An interesting idea, I might go with that.

Towards the end of the story arc the factories start running out of resources and everybody goes crazy for a few decades until they can figure out the last few things they need to understand to build their own factories.

The trick is, they have to be stored in some way that they could survive a global nuclear war, and yet simple enough that a curious peon could potentially find it and recover it without overly complex technology.

Seems kinda odd that the factories can survive global nuclear war, yet the aliens who built them died in an "atomigeddon"

You could just say that, the aliens simply forgot about that factory there. If they own lots and lots of space, I see no reason why there would be cases where a factory is suddenly lost, or some colony lossing its lines of communications, however odd that sounds.

No no, the aliens repaired the environment that we trashed after blowing our civilization away in a nuclear war. We did survive, along with our factories. Our descendants weren't so privileged as us; we are but legend to them. Our history is gone.

On the other hand, some of our simpler sciences are passed on with the survivors by spoken word (sort of like Native American tribal stories, but less fantastic).

[Ryan Thunder]

Oh, and the aliens blew themselves away in a freak accident involving zero-point energy. You know, that thing where a cubic centimetre of vacuum is supposed to contain enough energy to boil the Earth's oceans?

[Illuminatus Primus]

But left their magic factories? Better to go with a magic plague than that.

[Darth Wong]

Oh, and the aliens blew themselves away in a freak accident involving zero-point energy. You know, that thing where a cubic centimetre of vacuum is supposed to contain enough energy to boil the Earth's oceans?

Nobody told you it's bullshit?

[Junghalli]

It becomes ridiculous when even a retarded monkey could find a way to use technology A to outperform technology B, yet they are still limited to technology B anyway.

What he said.

Also, as usual, how well it's explained is a factor. Ryan is at least trying to explain the set-up he thought so it makes sense (I'd say his explanation could use a little more work at the moment, but he's making an effort). With that Star Wars pic it was obvious the artist just thought "well, it was thousands of years ago, so things should be primitive and they'd have Midaeval equipment... oh wait, they FTL starships too back then, don't they ... never mind, Star Wars is 'science fantasy' anyway so it doesn't have to make sense."

[Junghalli]

Of course, the factories need to be user friendly. I can't imagine any only peon going into a high-tech factory and getting ANY of the machines to run without breaking something. You also need to account for maintenance - a factory can't run nonstop without repairs for a week, let alone a millennium.

I'd say with the kind of set-up Ryan's thinking of the only way it's going to work is basically with a completely automated facility. The type where you just tell the computer "build me X" and it does it for you.

No no, the aliens repaired the environment that we trashed after blowing our civilization away in a nuclear war. We did survive, along with our factories. Our descendants weren't so privileged as us; we are but legend to them. Our history is gone.

Why not just cut out the unnecessary aliens and make it a straightforward matter of civilization collapsing and the primitives finding a couple of user-friendly fabricators? Also, instead of a nuclear war, I'd make it a plague. That way it makes sense that civilization collapses but there's minimal infrastructure damage.

[Ford Prefect]

Quite frankly, looking at whatm ore information you've given us, you might as well go 'oh hey, there's these piles of things lying around which are fairly easy to use, but somewhat are ability to replicate at the moment. Don't know hwere they came from. Really don't care'.

Ultimately, it eliminates problems involving aliens and their self-replicating fabricators, and instead allows you to focus on the story, and just what piles of cool shit can do. Imagine if not every 'side' had the same Ultratech? What if only some had levitation devices, and only some had sheets of super-awesome composite they can use as shields? And so on.

[Darth Ruinus]

Or, the aliens could be super advanced NOW, and that factory is just making toys for toddlers.

It would be immensly funny if the most advanced tech that these people have, ends up being literal toys to their creators.

Anyways, the factory could be there because of the war, that planet didnt get bombed per se, but it could have been abandonded because of the war.

[Yuri2356]

What if the factories were part of a settlement plan that was abandonned before any colonists arrived?

Automated units were sent to the planet to build and maintain some basic industries, then some budget cuts got the project cancelled and they've been waiting arround for further instructions ever since.

[Darth Wong]

Quite frankly, looking at whatm ore information you've given us, you might as well go 'oh hey, there's these piles of things lying around which are fairly easy to use, but somewhat are ability to replicate at the moment. Don't know hwere they came from. Really don't care'.

Ultimately, it eliminates problems involving aliens and their self-replicating fabricators, and instead allows you to focus on the story, and just what piles of cool shit can do. Imagine if not every 'side' had the same Ultratech? What if only some had levitation devices, and only some had sheets of super-awesome composite they can use as shields? And so on.

Indeed. Go for the Ancient Super-Advanced Weapons Depot of Doom.

[Shroom Man 777]

Battlefield Earth

[Nyrath]

There is some discussion on related matters here:

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ab.html#amra

[Ryan Thunder]

Sorry, perhaps I haven't been clear enough: The aliens didn't build the factories! We did!

The aliens cleaned up the mess we left behind so that civilization as we understand it could develop after it falls flat on its face.

That, and there's a few characters that require some sort of magic tech to do what they do, so I needed a source for that; aliens dicking around.

Although I suppose that having this alien civilization that can 'reset' planets, give people non-obvious implants that allow them to seemingly ignore conservation of momentum, and make them practically immortal, (all for shits and giggles) just blow themselves away by accident is kinda silly.

Oh, and the aliens blew themselves away in a freak accident involving zero-point energy. You know, that thing where a cubic centimetre of vacuum is supposed to contain enough energy to boil the Earth's oceans?

Nobody told you it's bullshit?

Well, no, but I figured it was anyways.

Really, it's just my generic magic tech. Star Trek has subspace, Star Wars has Hypermatter, I have ZPE.