Stargate: Using the Stargate in space battles...

[FireNexus]

Why has nobody ever thought to use a stargate in a space battle? It seems like it would be a fantastic platform for launching starfighters or even guided missiles at enemies. Hell, mount it on a ship (like I originally thought the ori ships had) and even if you destroy the ship the stargate could still be available as an indestructible fighter launch and/or attack platform.

Has this point ever been raised? I know if an outgoing gate is struck by a big energy jolt it will jump the wormhole, but I don't think an incoming has that sort of restriction.

[CaptJodan]

Didn't the first season finale prove that mobile stargates have this problem with...well...mobility, and they have to be reconfigured every time they are moved lest they don't work?

Or did they retcon that?

[Gustav32Vasa]

Didn't the first season finale prove that mobile stargates have this problem with...well...mobility, and they have to be reconfigured every time they are moved lest they don't work?

Or did they retcon that?

No, still a problem.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

The SGC has fired missiles through the gate on several occasions. Atlantis sends jumpers through them, and the Wraith send darts through all the time.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Why has nobody ever thought to use a stargate in a space battle? It seems like it would be a fantastic platform for launching starfighters or even guided missiles at enemies. Hell, mount it on a ship (like I originally thought the ori ships had) and even if you destroy the ship the stargate could still be available as an indestructible fighter launch and/or attack platform.

Has this point ever been raised? I know if an outgoing gate is struck by a big energy jolt it will jump the wormhole, but I don't think an incoming has that sort of restriction.

For a gateship to function as a fighter-carrier, you would have to bring the gate to a point which already exists as an address on the network, and somehow make sure your gate takes primacy. Daniel was able to dial out of apophis's ship in orbit above the earth using earth as a point-of-origin, but a gate between star systems will not function.

[Gustav32Vasa]

The closest Ive seen in turning a stargate into a weapon was the Asuran sateliteweapon.

[NecronLord]

Didn't the first season finale prove that mobile stargates have this problem with...well...mobility, and they have to be reconfigured every time they are moved lest they don't work?

Or did they retcon that?

No, still a problem.

Never a problem. It didn't work while they were in hyperspace. As a rule, ships do not fight in hyperspace.

You do not need to be around a planet 'in the network' for it to operate, merely travelling below a certain speed. Atlantis was able to move to a previously unoccupied planet and set up its gate with no difficulty.

In any case, a starship containing a stargate is possibly the single most lethal combat vessel we've seen, with firepower equal to entire wraith fleets.

Though to be fair, that was an Asuran-model eight chevron gate, which may be somehow better adapted than a standard model.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Didn't the first season finale prove that mobile stargates have this problem with...well...mobility, and they have to be reconfigured every time they are moved lest they don't work?

Or did they retcon that?

No, still a problem.

Never a problem. It didn't work while they were in hyperspace. As a rule, ships do not fight in hyperspace.

You do not need to be around a planet 'in the network' for it to operate, merely travelling below a certain speed. Atlantis was able to move to a previously unoccupied planet and set up its gate with no difficulty.

That takes some time.

In any case, a starship containing a stargate is possibly the single most lethal combat vessel we've seen, with firepower equal to entire wraith fleets.

Though to be fair, that was an Asuran-model eight chevron gate, which may be somehow better adapted than a standard model.

I agree.

Why didnt they do that to Earth?

[NecronLord]

I agree.

Why didnt they do that to Earth?

They never actually showed that they wanted to harm Earth. I put it down to human paranoia. There's nothing that could have stopped them dialling up Earth and propagating a dakara pulse set to destroy organic matter through the stargate, if they were hell bent on genocide. Unless of course, they were so attached to their parklands they didn't want to do that.

They only started killing human worlds (though for all we know, that could have been Weir too. Did they actually mention seeing the Asuran ships attacking human worlds?) as a means to get the Wraith. They were after Atlantis, capital of the people who enslaved them. If they wanted to kill humans on principle, the Pegasus galaxy would be solely inhabited by Asurans by now.

The Earthers took a minor fued in which the Asurans actually killed 0 humans, and escalated it to a full on nuclear conflict, not vice versa.

[Stargate Nerd]

The Earthers took a minor fued in which the Asurans actually killed 0 humans, and escalated it to a full on nuclear conflict, not vice versa.

Only because the Asurans were building fleets of ships. And remember this was before McKay reactivated the attack code so they only purpose of this fleet could be to attack Earth.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm pretty sure the Asurans either don't know we're from earth, or don't know earth's address.

[Gustav32Vasa]

I'm pretty sure the Asurans either don't know we're from earth, or don't know earth's address.

Didnt Sheppard give that up when he was in that fantasy in the first Asuran episode?

[PREDATOR490]

I'm pretty sure the Asurans either don't know we're from earth, or don't know earth's address.

That seems really unlikely. More than a few times we have seen the Asurans do their brain reading trick and they even did it to the Ancients when they were on Atlantis. That should be more than enough for them to know they are from Earth.

I'm more willing to believe the Asurans cant dial Earth because they dont have that 'crystal' thing that makes Atlantis able to do it. Although even that is fairly stupid when the Asurans should be more than capable of making their own or send a a single ship to establish a gate they can dial up.

As for the fleet they were building, there was no indication it was meant as an invasion of Earth. They wouldnt even need hundreds of ships to invade Earth if they can just pull out those death sats. They wouldnt even really need to fire a shot if they wanted to be smart. Just reveal the Stargate program to the population and watch the shit storm unfold. I would be more willingly to believe the Asurans built the fleet to defend themselves rightfully against Atlantis and / or the Wraith.

[NecronLord]

Only because the Asurans were building fleets of ships. And remember this was before McKay reactivated the attack code so they only purpose of this fleet could be to attack Earth.

The United States is also building ships. Does that mean the Asurans would be justified in turning it to radioactive glass?

Someone found them, for, as far as we know, the first time in ten thousand years. Why shouldn't that make them want to bolster their defences? For that matter, they were conducting regular reconnissance overflights of the Asuran homeworld too...

I'm pretty sure the Asurans either don't know we're from earth, or don't know earth's address.

As mentioned, they've mindprobed at least six earth people.

I'm more willing to believe the Asurans cant dial Earth because they dont have that 'crystal' thing that makes Atlantis able to do it. Although even that is fairly stupid when the Asurans should be more than capable of making their own or send a a single ship to establish a gate they can dial up.

Indeed, that's fairly silly. They built at least one Atlantis type city ship, but they couldn't make a stargate dial intergalactic.

Of course, they could send ships to Earth anyway; they have intergalactic hyperdrives and Zero Point Modules. It's even possible that Asuran ships might already be on their way.

[Chris OFarrell]

I agree.

Why didnt they do that to Earth?

They never actually showed that they wanted to harm Earth. I put it down to human paranoia. There's nothing that could have stopped them dialling up Earth and propagating a dakara pulse set to destroy organic matter through the stargate, if they were hell bent on genocide. Unless of course, they were so attached to their parklands they didn't want to do that.

You know, the fact that they DIDN'T do this to wipe the Pegsaus Galaxy clean of life far more efficiently then either attacking the Wraith directly, or, trying to starve out humans by bombarding planet after planet through the Galaxy with humans on it...

Well it suggests to me that the Dakara device was either something the Asurans were not programed to buil, or, the device is actually an enormous investment of resources that would take far too long to build compared to fleets of ships.

They only started killing human worlds (though for all we know, that could have been Weir too. Did they actually mention seeing the Asuran ships attacking human worlds?) as a means to get the Wraith. They were after Atlantis, capital of the people who enslaved them. If they wanted to kill humans on principle, the Pegasus galaxy would be solely inhabited by Asurans by now.

Eh, I don't know. They couldn't appear to attack the Wraith at ALL before McKay and Sheppard triggered their attack code, yet they were building a huge fleet of ships for the first time after centuries of apparently doing nothing, after encountering the Atlantis expedition. There is no reason to build that kind of a fleet unless you are going to ATTACK something and they can't touch the Wraith, so either:

1. They were already going to *indirectly* attack the Wraith by blasting planets across the Pegasus Galaxy.
2. They were going after Atlantis and were bringing a fleet big enough to do the job.
3. They were going after a threat in another Galaxy.

Recall that the Atlantis team HAD had their minds linked to the Asurans for a time and were all emphatic that these guys hated humans. I mean they freely took them prisoner, fucked their minds then set a course to blow Atlantis into lots of little pieces. Then they attacked Atlantis again when they thought it was under the control of the expedition -though they didn't care about the presence of the Ancients.

Then after this failure, when the Replicators know the Ancients on Atlantis are all dead as they killed them...then they build a huge fleet. They can't attack the Wraith, the Atlantis expedition at this point haven't attacked their planet (and it would make more sense to build defensive battle stations, shield generators, surface to space drone launchers e.t.c. if then hyperspace capable warships if you want to DEFEND, you can get much more firepower up much faster that way) so WHY are they building a gigantic war fleet for the first time in all these years?

Hell the fact that the Horizen Gatebusters weren't stopped by orbital or surface defenses suggests to me they were NOT looking at a defensive outlay at all. That they were building long range warships and strategic weapons suited almost perfectly for taking out heavily shielded planatery targets on the other hand...

I don't think it was for a pleasure cruise.

[NecronLord]

You know, the fact that they DIDN'T do this to wipe the Pegsaus Galaxy clean of life far more efficiently then either attacking the Wraith directly, or, trying to starve out humans by bombarding planet after planet through the Galaxy with humans on it...

Well it suggests to me that the Dakara device was either something the Asurans were not programed to buil, or, the device is actually an enormous investment of resources that would take far too long to build compared to fleets of ships.

While it is possible, I doubt it is the case. Related technologies are apparently simple and scaleable enough to be reproduced in great numbers in human labs (ARGs) and mounted on ships for planetary dissemination. It is possible that they don't believe in (or are specifically programmed to avoid) doomsday weapons, but even then, if they wanted to attack earth, they could do it. Even if they didn't use something like Sokar's beam, or Anubis' gate-buster (neither of which would stop Earth removing its stargate, mind) they could simply send starships to go get earth. The bombing was futile in that regard - it didn't neutralise the threat to Earth, it just gave them, if anything, more reason to attack Earth. It didn't seriously harm their industrial capabilities either: they had a whole fleet days later anyway.

Eh, I don't know. They couldn't appear to attack the Wraith at ALL before McKay and Sheppard triggered their attack code, yet they were building a huge fleet of ships for the first time after centuries of apparently doing nothing, after encountering the Atlantis expedition. There is no reason to build that kind of a fleet unless you are going to ATTACK something

Yes there is. The wraith have sixty hive ships, and probably some hundred or more cruisers. Assuming the Atlantis expedition leak (willingly or not) the location of Asuras to the wraith, they would need a fleet as large or, given their preformance in All my Sins, even bigger as the one they had in order to combat such an attack.

and they can't touch the Wraith,

The imperative to attack the Wraith was removed. That doesn't necesserily mean they can't do so, nor defend themselves from Wraith aggression. For all we know, Oberoth was in ernest about 'dealing with them in our own time' and actually had some kind of long term plan. that would solve the matter to their taste. Though they're evidently unconcerned about human suffering while that happens.

so either:

Also, for all we know, they already had some limited fleet active. They had not less than one ship as of The Return. The ship-mounted-stargate, at least, was ready to go at short notice. Days after the bombing they had at least one ship that didn't appear to have been there before. And they were then able to launch a fleet to attack a Wraith world as soon as the attack code was implemented after their next merge.

1. They were already going to *indirectly* attack the Wraith by blasting planets across the Pegasus Galaxy.
2. They were going after Atlantis and were bringing a fleet big enough to do the job.
3. They were going after a threat in another Galaxy.

Or they just wanted to build a defence fleet, given that suddenly people outside their world knew where they were. Of course, I expect it's quite likely they were going after Atlantis, anyway. It's even likely (I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm fairly certain that the writers' intent is for them to be villainous bad guys who hate humans and would like nothing better to attack Earth. If nothing else, to neutralise the stargate programme and keep humans primative) that they would have gotten around to attacking Earth too. However, we can't say that with certainty from the evidence available, and the character's assumption that this is their intention is not necesserily a reasoned argument.

Recall that the Atlantis team HAD had their minds linked to the Asurans for a time and were all emphatic that these guys hated humans. I mean they freely took them prisoner, fucked their minds then set a course to blow Atlantis into lots of little pieces. Then they attacked Atlantis again when they thought it was under the control of the expedition -though they didn't care about the presence of the Ancients.

Yes. Atlantis. Again, if they hated humans enough to go out of their way to kill them, they could easily have done something about it by now. The Hot Zone virus springs to mind. There's no word of the wraith virus somehow preventing them from attacking humans.

Then after this failure, when the Replicators know the Ancients on Atlantis are all dead as they killed them...then they build a huge fleet. They can't attack the Wraith, the Atlantis expedition at this point haven't attacked their planet (and it would make more sense to build defensive battle stations, shield generators, surface to space drone launchers e.t.c. if then hyperspace capable warships if you want to DEFEND, you can get much more firepower up much faster that way) so WHY are they building a gigantic war fleet for the first time in all these years?

Why hasn't Earth built sattellite weapons, then? A starship is far more useful, because it also provides deterrance. You can hit back at your enemies, rather than sitting around to take it up the ass from them. Of course, Sheppard claims they may have surface-to-space weapons, too but we've not seen them.

Hell the fact that the Horizen Gatebusters weren't stopped by orbital or surface defenses suggests to me they were NOT looking at a defensive outlay at all. That they were building long range warships and strategic weapons suited almost perfectly for taking out heavily shielded planatery targets on the other hand...

As Earth does. Even if they don't think the Atlantis humans are going to attack them, that doesn't mean they're not a security risk - observe that they take their security seriously enough that they decide to kill people that know about them in Progeny. All it takes is for Sheppard to get captured (again) by the Wraith and mind probed (again) and the Wraith might take it upon themselves to go and do something more permanant about the 'replicator threat.'

I don't think it was for a pleasure cruise.

So? The fact that they were building warships does suggest that they might want to attack their enemies. It is not, however, proof. Similarly, while it's likely they were responsible for attacks on human worlds (indeed, I seriously doubt the writers are going to do such an abrupt about face) the evidence agaisnt them on that is currently circumstantial, as we now know that there is at least one other group with access to the weapons used.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm trying to remember, but in the season 1 episode where Weir went back in time, didn't Janus say that the only gate in the Pegasus galaxy that could dial earth was Atlantis?

[NecronLord]

He locked out all incoming addresses, other than Earth's. Assuming that this happened in the overwritten timeline too (they wouldn't want the Wraith getting there anyway, and Earth was where they were going) this is likely why the Wraith never entered the city, and possibly why Anubis never got there.

JANUS: I've blocked all addresses to the Gate except Earth. You will be safe.

The idea about the Atlantis control crystal being required comes from

McKAY: It is, but that's because it's the only one with an additional control crystal that allows an eighth chevron to lock.

It seems highly unlikely that the Asurans could not duplicate this device, and the have more than enough power.