Discworld receives new villains

[Tiriol]

It has come to pass that several villains from across the human imagination have been removed from their respective home universes and inserted into Discworld (just after the events of Feet of Clay). They cannot return to their own universes without forcing the gods of the Disc to work in unison in their favor and they are (naturally) unaware what kind of place the Discworld is. They are not initially hostile to each other, although becoming hostile isn't out of the question. Who of them could best cope with this strange change (and what would the effects be on the Discworld at large)?

The contestants are:
Sauron: the Dark Lord of Mordor from the Lord of the Rings. Sauron appears on the Disc just after forging the One Ring.
Darth Sidious/Palpatine: the Dark Lord of the Sith from Star Wars. Sidious appears on the Disc just before the events of Revenge of the Sith take place in his own universe.
Szass Tam: from Forgotten Realms, just after the events of the Unclean. The Zulkir of Necromancy and an undead creature (lich) himself. Tam comes equipped with what he is normally wearing and with his phylactery (where he contains his soul).
Jafar: from Disney's Aladdin, just before the events of the said film. His parrot, Iago, will accompany him and he will also have his hypnotic staff.
Vinnovill: from the Pini family's Elfquest series. And elf healer gone bad with the power of shapechange (although limited), causing pain with mere thought, mind influence, shaping other beings' physical forms to suit her purposes and similar powers.
Voldemort: the Dark Lord from Harry Potter and the leader of the Death Eeaters. He is yanked from his own universe just after the events of Goblet of Fire and carries his Horcruxes along with him into this world.
Cutler Beckett: executive of the East India Trading Company and a British lord in Pirates of the Caribbean. He is transported to the Disc just before the Dead Man's Chest and gets his aide, Mr Mercer, along with him.
Shadow: a First One from Babylon 5, transported just before Sheridan's escape from Z'ha'dum.

[alexholker]

Speaking only for the first two:
I think that Palpatine would have more success than Sauron. Sauron is practically a god of combat, but I think he'd have a hard time recruiting minions. On the other hand, Palpatine is practically Vetinari with Force Lightning and a lightsaber. He'd have more chance of establishing an empire, possibly by just killing Vetinari and taking his.

[Shroom Man 777]

Cutler Beckett can't do shit. He's a rich boy and I doubt he got all those monies by founding the East India Trading Company himself. If he doesn't have his monies, he can't do shit unless he gets some. What's he gonna do, hire his aid off as a male prostitute?

[White Haven]

We've seen that what works best on the Disc is cunning, not brute force, because no matter how strong you are, there's ALWAYS an act of plot waiting to gaspedal you. Palpatine, by far.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Cutler Beckett can't do shit. He's a rich boy and I doubt he got all those monies by founding the East India Trading Company himself. If he doesn't have his monies, he can't do shit unless he gets some. What's he gonna do, hire his aid off as a male prostitute?

So, he gets to work for the clacks before ending up in the Mime-hole? We've seen worse than him get gimped by Veterinari with ease .

Sauron gets chopped up by a Hero. Any hero. (Cohen's as good as any ).

Szass joins the UU as lecturer on Ancient Runes. (He's no nastier than the old competitive environment was before they realized Ridcully is nigh-unkillable).

Sidious probably ends up in Veterinari's spot, or running his own nation. (Somewhere in the desert maybe ).

[Molyneux]

Vetinari and Sidious would probably face off; not sure who would come out of that in one piece, assuming that Sidious does not have his lightsaber. Either way, Sidious would likely come to the attention of Mistress Weatherwax soon enough...

Voldemort might actually shake things up at Unseen University; remember the Sourceror, and when Albert came back?

Cutler Beckett probably just goes into business and does all right until he tries to cross Mr. von Lipwig.

[Tiriol]

Few clarifications:

Lord Sidious does not carry his lightsabre.

Sauron has his Ring (and we are talking about the book version of Sauron).

Shadow does have rudimentary Shadow technology tools with it; so while it cannot create a spacecraft or anything, it can create some wondrous items (at least on Discworld's scale).

Szass Tam doesn't have the two artifacts he received from Larloch the Shadow King; however, his staff (of Power or of Archmagi, can't remember which) is with him.

[Vendetta]

Voldemort might actually shake things up at Unseen University; remember the Sourceror, and when Albert came back?

He wouldn't last five seconds, he makes too many genre errors. I counted, in an idle moment, at least twelve things from the Evil Overlord list that Voldemort got wrong, and that kind of laziness on the Disc will get you defeated in less time than it takes you to explain your Evil Plan to the nearest underling. You'd just better hope the hero that gets you knows the Code and lets you escape to have another go.

And against discworld magic, his version is a bit puny.

[NeoGoomba]

Speaking only for the first two:
Sauron is practically a god of combat, but I think he'd have a hard time recruiting minions

Well, thats ass-backward. Sauron HATED direct confrontation, and not just because he lost in every single one he was in. On the other hand, he was exceedingly charismatic up until his downfall in Numenor, and was able to charm everyone with the exception of the super Wise uber Elves. After forging the Ring, he was at the apex of his personal power, and would be able to assume his fair form (or any other form, for that matter) in an effort to amass a personal force.

[weemadando]

Jafar. As long as he avoids Vetinari (who would probably imprison him for being a Grand Vizier) he could easily set himself up in a quiet corner of the Disc and have some nice loyal followers and a nice little kingdom.

[alexholker]

Well, thats ass-backward. Sauron HATED direct confrontation, and not just because he lost in every single one he was in. On the other hand, he was exceedingly charismatic up until his downfall in Numenor, and was able to charm everyone with the exception of the super Wise uber Elves. After forging the Ring, he was at the apex of his personal power, and would be able to assume his fair form (or any other form, for that matter) in an effort to amass a personal force.

I couldn't remember how he was depicted in the books, since it's been about eight years since I read them, so I defaulted to movie version.

[Crazedwraith]

None of them will do well in the end. They are villians as soon as they enter Discworld they come susceptible to the narrativium of the Discworld which makes their defeat inevitable because that's how the story always goes.

[Vendetta]

Yeah, if he can find a place that doesn't know the thing about Grand Viziers yet, Jafar would be set.

Though the fact that he would probably try and usurp power in the end, rather than realising like a sensible Grand Vizier that you can wield just as much of it by keeping the king stupid would probably be his eventual undoing.

[Anguirus]

This isn't so much Disc-specific, but Szass Tam is a high-level D&D wizard. Hence, he's by far the most powerful guy on this list, assuming Palpatine can't create Force-storms yet. He's like a walking nuke.

Anyway, I don't see any reason why they won't do fine, at least until they try something really huge and run afoul of Death or the Auditors or some such. Most of these guys could depose Vetinari, but Ankh-Morpork would then tear itself apart until he's reinstated like it always does.

[weemadando]

You forget. The more massively over-powered the person, the more rapidly and easily they are taken down by an even more unlikely underdog.

This is the Discworld remember!

[Anguirus]

I dunno, no one's taken down the gods yet. Or Death.

[Mr Bean]

I dunno, no one's taken down the gods yet. Or Death.

The Gods have belief, they have their own power base and unlike most gods, are rather active about beating up non-believers(The quote about Gods throwing bricks through Atheists window's comes to mind)

Death is death, he's the personification of a inate part of the universe.


FYI, for those who think better living through magic. Keep in mind on the Disc, the fabric of reality is thin, meaning to much magic results in tears in the fabric of reality itself, leading to THINGS from the dungeon dimensions breaking through and feasting on whatever magic user unleashed them.

So Szass Tam, Sauron, and to a lesser extent perhaps Voldermort are likely to get eaten if they try to womp there way to victory via magic.

[Oskuro]

Do any of thse villains have a sense of humor? Because that would help.

I would personally root for Sauron re-enacting his plans by making rings for every pseudo-hero on the face of the Disc. Of course, bets are off as to who would end up stealing the One ring... I'd say Rincewind, I totally picture him running from the Nazgul (or the new discword version of them).

[Anguirus]

What's in the Dungeon Dimension that can take out folk like that?

[Tiriol]

My own view of the situation is this:

Voldemort would be the worst equipped to deal with the change. He isn't used to a world where the existence of magic is not secret and where it is quite common. Of course, given time, he will adapt, but he will be disoriented (and most likely rather obvious to any would-be-hero with his horribly mutated features). While he can survive bodily death (thanks to the Horcruxes) how he intends to return from that existencial limbo is another matter entirely. His previous return succeeded because he still had underlings and he understood the functions of the world. For Voldemort, attaching himself to someone more powerful and knowledgeable (at least for time being) would be most prudent way to deal with the situation.

Vinnovill would fit right in with the Discworld Elves, although she seemed to actually be rather content with her little domain inside the Glider Elves' mountain. However, it is hard to say how she would deal with the fact that not only she is now in unfamiliar lands with both her former allies and hated foes nonexistent.

Palpatine is, of course, rather obvious choice, but he might find the Discworld lacking: it's just one world whereas in Star Wars universe he could rule an entire galaxy (and this world is ludicrous to extreme to his liking). Furthermore, Bane's Sith Order defined themselves not only in their ambition and desire for power, but also in their opposition to the Jedi. Without his ancestral enemies around (and in rather low-tech world to boot) Palpatine would be disoriented, at least for a while.

Szass Tam's undead nature wouldn't annoy metropolitan Ankh-Morpork much, but outside such major and modern cities he would have some difficulties (and the possibility of the Dungeon Dimensions, once he learns of them, would prevent him from using his most powerful magic at will). However, unlike the stereotypical and traditional lich, Tam isn't malevolent and insanely evil - rather, his so ambitious, scheming and decidedly calculating that all else pales before them. He is also highly nationalistic (his defining quality being utmost loyalty to Thay) and as such could possibly find his existence on Discworld somewhat hollow, at least until he finds another avenues for his path for domination.

Sauron... well, he is my candidate. The Ring-lord has the advantage that he is naturally immortal (and with the Ring, his personal influence and might exceeded that of Morgoth's) and that he is a natural shapeshifter. And thanks to his longevity, he is used to thinking in manner of centuries and millennia (for example, Szass Tam has existed for "mere" three centuries while Sauron traces his birth before the literal beginning of Time) and since the playground is now entirely new to him, he will be careful (although he is bound to surprised in a non-amusing way when he deals with Discworld creatures - instead of mindless Trolls of Middle-earth he would encounter rather intelligent ones and the elves would be a bemusing turn of events for him). His desire for order, though, will drive him to impose his vision of perfect world order on Discworld at some point.

The Shadow, now, is in a strange situation even more so than Palpatine: while Palpatine's universe was much more technologically advanced than the Shadow's, the Shadows relied heavily on their technology to succeed in their goals. Now, with only rudimentary tools and its own psionic abilities, the Shadow in question is stranded on a medieval world of which it has no knowledge and where there aren't any other First Ones. It seemed to be that both the Vorlons and the Shadows lacked personal ambition (at least in the way that would be recognizeable to the Younger Races) and seemed to work as collectives. The Shadow needs some serious reorientation (although its desire for growth through chaos and conflict is more than easily achieved in the turmoils of the Discworld). In that the Shadow and Sauron would come to direct conflict with each other sooner or later (Sauron, being a creature of Order, would find the Shadow deeply disgusting and non-essential) and I wouldn't want to be on the Shadow's side when the inevitable confrontation comes.

Strangely enough, Lord Beckett and Jafar might be most comfortable in this new environment: Beckett is ruthless and calculating enough to survive in often bizarre and hostile economical environment of the Discworld and Ankh-Morpork, and Jafar has experience dealing with comical events and humor-driven plots (and the animated series revealed that Jafar was also rather adept at magic even before becoming the most powerful sorcerer of the world). Jafar's downfall would most likely be that he wants to be in charge visibly and such would meet the doom of all evil Grand Viziers. Beckett, on the other hand, might even flourish for a time (and try to become a Patrician, even), but his dislike for criminals of any sort (at least those NOT under his direct command) would inevitably make his life hell when he confronts the various Guilds.

I could actually see Palpatine, Sauron and Tam forging some form of an alliance of convenience at first: they all desire order. However, inevitably, their hunger for power would drive them apart (and Palpatine would have the distinct disadvantage of being a mortal - and now when he no longer has his Sith artifacts and captured Jedi lore, the possibility of finding Force immortality is slim, although Discworld does offer other forms of immortality). However, the Power of the Story would most likely be everyone's downfall: they are villains, pure and simple. If someone could defy that narratium, he or she could become a terrible power in the Discworld (at least out of the Major Three listed above).

[Mr Bean]

What's in the Dungeon Dimension that can take out folk like that?

Think uglier versions of cthulhu. Except they feed off magic, they can't exist in the normal world without it, they also can't cross into the Discworld with magic. In D&D terms think something that can absorb infinite amount of spell levels and gains +1 to all stats and 1HD per spell level cast at it.(Geek out!)

They have no fixed form, they have unstable forms and without magic any old hero with a sword could carve up two dozen of them with ease. But they are still dangerous in an accidental way in physical fights.

However get them magic and they get VERY crazy. They start by eating the caster in question to gain his magic and go on a rampage from there.

[LadyTevar]

[rant]WINNOWILL, not Vinnovill. That was the name given to her Human-shape.[/rant]
But yes, she'd fit right in with the Lords and Ladies, and could give the Elf Queen a run as nastiest bitch. Granny Weatherwax would have an interesting time dealing with her.

[Vendetta]

However get them magic and they get VERY crazy. They start by eating the caster in question

Frequently from the inside, as well.

[Anguirus]

Think uglier versions of cthulhu. Except they feed off magic, they can't exist in the normal world without it, they also can't cross into the Discworld with magic. In D&D terms think something that can absorb infinite amount of spell levels and gains +1 to all stats and 1HD per spell level cast at it.(Geek out!)

They have no fixed form, they have unstable forms and without magic any old hero with a sword could carve up two dozen of them with ease. But they are still dangerous in an accidental way in physical fights.

However get them magic and they get VERY crazy. They start by eating the caster in question to gain his magic and go on a rampage from there.

LOL, I might have to steal something like that sometime. Szass would do well to invest in some bodyguards.

[Vanas]

Death is death, he's the personification of a inate part of the universe.

Well, Death did kill Death in Reaper Man. This was the new Death who wore a crown and was thus a villain. Evil apparently never prospers on the Disc, unless it's a good kind of evil.





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