Been playing World in Conflict since Christmas and enjoying it... although there's little more frustrating than being on a team with no coherent anti-air force against a team with two awesomely coordinated air players.
I notice a lot of people going almost purely Heavy Armor. What's the optimum? Should I only go for Heavy armor? Is a mix recommended? (What are Light tanks good for?)
World in Conflict
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Uraniun235
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World in Conflict
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Brother-Captain Gaius
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I haven't played for a few months and most of my experience is with beta, so they may have rebalanced some things considerably, but:
A lot of people are stupid. WiC, for whatever reason, really brings out the retards in people and finding a competent, balanced team with competent role commanders is exceedingly rare. Last time I checked:
Heavy tanks have the same firepower as mediums, but more armor and a special strong vs. light armor instead of vs. infantry.
Light tanks have much less firepower and armor than mediums, but are faster and frequently employed in mass blitzkrieg sort of attacks. They are theoretically useful early in a round by overwhelming less mobile enemies en masse, but I have never used this 'tactic'.
When I do go armor, I typically employ a mix of heavies and mediums, saving enough for a medium AA as well since it's almost guaranteed the team will not have competent air defense. The medium AA also has the useful capability of being able to deal with infantry effectively, so is a good investment.
However, if you really want to be self-sufficient, be infantry. They have AA, AT, and AP, and with a transport chopper or two are mobile enough to mitigate their vulnerability to artillery. They can also be hidden to further confound your enemies.
A lot of people are stupid. WiC, for whatever reason, really brings out the retards in people and finding a competent, balanced team with competent role commanders is exceedingly rare. Last time I checked:
Heavy tanks have the same firepower as mediums, but more armor and a special strong vs. light armor instead of vs. infantry.
Light tanks have much less firepower and armor than mediums, but are faster and frequently employed in mass blitzkrieg sort of attacks. They are theoretically useful early in a round by overwhelming less mobile enemies en masse, but I have never used this 'tactic'.
When I do go armor, I typically employ a mix of heavies and mediums, saving enough for a medium AA as well since it's almost guaranteed the team will not have competent air defense. The medium AA also has the useful capability of being able to deal with infantry effectively, so is a good investment.
However, if you really want to be self-sufficient, be infantry. They have AA, AT, and AP, and with a transport chopper or two are mobile enough to mitigate their vulnerability to artillery. They can also be hidden to further confound your enemies.
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1337 posts as of 16:34 GMT-7 June 2nd, 2003
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The vision never dies; life's a never-ending wheel
1337 posts as of 16:34 GMT-7 June 2nd, 2003
"'He or she' is an agenderphobic microaggression, Sharon. You are a bigot." ― Randy Marsh
When you've got a good team, it's awesome.
Make sure you use the "Q" menu, for requesting stuff.
I had a lot off experience playing as air in beta. For heavy choppers, have them hold fire until they get right on top of their target, then allow them to fire. It does a lot more damage that way. For medium choppers, sidewinder missiles are your friends. Use them as often as you can. 3 will kill anything.
Similarly, sidewinder missiles are your enemy. When the enemy fires, you drop flares and run, fast.
Try getting 1 scout chopper, 4 heavies, and sneaking around to behind their lines. Then rocket their heavy arty to oblivion.
for infantry...
Sprint is your friend. Use it as often as possible. Garrison buildings, and when the building is almost dead, pop out and sprint to the next one. You can keep tons of enemies tied up this way.
and for anything involving vehicles... smoke is really good, but remember, you can't see out of it. But vehicles in it can still fire out if they've got spotters. And if you've got vehicles traveling together, have them pop smoke one at a time, to conserve.
Make sure you use the "Q" menu, for requesting stuff.
I had a lot off experience playing as air in beta. For heavy choppers, have them hold fire until they get right on top of their target, then allow them to fire. It does a lot more damage that way. For medium choppers, sidewinder missiles are your friends. Use them as often as you can. 3 will kill anything.
Similarly, sidewinder missiles are your enemy. When the enemy fires, you drop flares and run, fast.
Try getting 1 scout chopper, 4 heavies, and sneaking around to behind their lines. Then rocket their heavy arty to oblivion.
for infantry...
Sprint is your friend. Use it as often as possible. Garrison buildings, and when the building is almost dead, pop out and sprint to the next one. You can keep tons of enemies tied up this way.
and for anything involving vehicles... smoke is really good, but remember, you can't see out of it. But vehicles in it can still fire out if they've got spotters. And if you've got vehicles traveling together, have them pop smoke one at a time, to conserve.
The game is now significantly different to beta. I played beta, demo and retail, and post-patch 5 retail has changed a great many balance concepts.
Heavy tanks have been significantly rebalanced. From the front they're almost immune to everything bar missiles and other heavy tanks: 6 light tank missiles might do half damage if you're really lucky. Heavy tanks basically require other heavy tanks or heavy choppers to kill (or TA of course). They suck vs everything, though: they're 'tanks' in the game sense, for bashing through defences and seizing points. Light tanks can be effective from the sides of heavier armour, but it's a lot of micro and a heavy tank will kill you in 2-3 hits. Playing armour, stick to heavies if you want to be the 'sharp end', and use transports with a cooperative inf player. Deploying a few inf squads can utterly discomfit an air attack, but the transports are ridiculously useless in a fight vs any serious opposition.
Heavy AA (and AA in general) has been significantly buffed, so air defence is actually possible now. A decent air player can pop 1 HAA, but more will cause real problems. The issue is now the 'roving HAA attack squad' disease, where players take 4 HAA and a repair and try to assault defended positions with their light vehicles instead of supporting armour players on the offensive.
As infantry, stick to regular infantry unless other units are needed. They rape choppers, most light vehicles and other infantry. Remember to hold down 'e for nades' and click heaps, not just once, to fire heaps of nades. AT infantry sucks shit at everything except killing tanks, and are really obvious while they do it. Snipers are basically free points on open or hilly maps, and nearly useless in other maps with no long lines of sight. Demo engineers are officially Useless. Trucks are more useful for being a cheap unit to cap/fortify than transport, as infantry is slower but can easily defend itself from choppers.
Rushes are almost worthless now. I'm not a very good armour player at all, but 2 moderately damaged heavy tanks can slaughter 8+ light tanks without losing a unit. A cooperative air player (like me lol) will wipe the rush even faster.
Heavy tanks have been significantly rebalanced. From the front they're almost immune to everything bar missiles and other heavy tanks: 6 light tank missiles might do half damage if you're really lucky. Heavy tanks basically require other heavy tanks or heavy choppers to kill (or TA of course). They suck vs everything, though: they're 'tanks' in the game sense, for bashing through defences and seizing points. Light tanks can be effective from the sides of heavier armour, but it's a lot of micro and a heavy tank will kill you in 2-3 hits. Playing armour, stick to heavies if you want to be the 'sharp end', and use transports with a cooperative inf player. Deploying a few inf squads can utterly discomfit an air attack, but the transports are ridiculously useless in a fight vs any serious opposition.
Heavy AA (and AA in general) has been significantly buffed, so air defence is actually possible now. A decent air player can pop 1 HAA, but more will cause real problems. The issue is now the 'roving HAA attack squad' disease, where players take 4 HAA and a repair and try to assault defended positions with their light vehicles instead of supporting armour players on the offensive.
As infantry, stick to regular infantry unless other units are needed. They rape choppers, most light vehicles and other infantry. Remember to hold down 'e for nades' and click heaps, not just once, to fire heaps of nades. AT infantry sucks shit at everything except killing tanks, and are really obvious while they do it. Snipers are basically free points on open or hilly maps, and nearly useless in other maps with no long lines of sight. Demo engineers are officially Useless. Trucks are more useful for being a cheap unit to cap/fortify than transport, as infantry is slower but can easily defend itself from choppers.
Rushes are almost worthless now. I'm not a very good armour player at all, but 2 moderately damaged heavy tanks can slaughter 8+ light tanks without losing a unit. A cooperative air player (like me lol) will wipe the rush even faster.
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Uraniun235
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Yeah, I've been seeing that; it looks ridiculous, although I have to admit sometimes I see a dozen enemy coppers roaming around in a big pack and I think for a moment "well shit maybe he's onto something there"Heavy AA (and AA in general) has been significantly buffed, so air defence is actually possible now. A decent air player can pop 1 HAA, but more will cause real problems. The issue is now the 'roving HAA attack squad' disease, where players take 4 HAA and a repair and try to assault defended positions with their light vehicles instead of supporting armour players on the offensive.
But then, that's from the perspective of an Armor player. I've done infantry a couple of times; I've noticed there are maps where they shine and maps where they just seem to get slaughtered before they can do anything.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
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JointStrikeFighter
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I myself got WiC just before xmas and have been playing it religiously since. I mostly go armour, with infantry coming in second.
If your playing armour its definitely best I find to go all heavy tanks, all alternatively 3 heavies and a medium AA. You should definitely wait the 30s or so extra at the start to get 4 heavy tanks in your initial spawn. Try and keep the pressure up constantly on the enemy and obviously keep your front to the enemy. Try and organise a HAA team to stick just behind your tanks, about half the firing radius of the HAA is best as it still protects u and keeps you out of harms way.
Another important thing; be prepared to charge recklessly into the enemy rear areas if an opportunity arrises because bold armoured exploitation of their rear area blowing up arty and HAA squads = WIN!. You get tons of score and it really helps your team.
As a tanker the biggest threat to you is heavy attack choppers; they will end your fun pretty quickly
When you come under attack pop smoke, but pop them sequentially as it will extend your coverage time hopefully long enough for your own AA or medium choppers to arrive and save you.
If your playing armour its definitely best I find to go all heavy tanks, all alternatively 3 heavies and a medium AA. You should definitely wait the 30s or so extra at the start to get 4 heavy tanks in your initial spawn. Try and keep the pressure up constantly on the enemy and obviously keep your front to the enemy. Try and organise a HAA team to stick just behind your tanks, about half the firing radius of the HAA is best as it still protects u and keeps you out of harms way.
Another important thing; be prepared to charge recklessly into the enemy rear areas if an opportunity arrises because bold armoured exploitation of their rear area blowing up arty and HAA squads = WIN!. You get tons of score and it really helps your team.
As a tanker the biggest threat to you is heavy attack choppers; they will end your fun pretty quickly
When you come under attack pop smoke, but pop them sequentially as it will extend your coverage time hopefully long enough for your own AA or medium choppers to arrive and save you.-
Uraniun235
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All heavies just makes casualties so bloody painful, though, since if you lose your whole force you're out for so much longer before you get any significant force back.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
That's why he waits the 20s or so to get a fourth heavy before he starts. N-square law and all that: the increased firepower allows him to take on most early-game forces and take a point. Things like Bradleys and light tanks won't last more than five seconds in combat: a heavy with front to the enemy and smoke can last 30s or more.
It's worth remembering that all special attacks are separate attacks, even when this is non-intuitive. For instance, the NATO Warrior has AP rounds instead of an AT missile, which allows it to a) increase it's ROF by about 25%, as the 'AP shots' are separate to normal firing and b) really mess up choppers, because the AP shots can still shoot at them. With things like heavy tanks, the HEAT shot does not reset the cooldown on the normal shot, so against light units or fortifications you can fire two or three shots in quick succession.
PS don't be those idiots who shoot HEAT at heavy tanks.
A real advantage to JSF's very aggressive style is that it makes it much harder for the average WiC player to hit him with TA: they expect tankers to sit still and grind through defences or sit on points, and not charge straight past the lines and wipe out their team three times over before being destroyed. Watching heavy artillery try to run away from his flying column never stops being funny.
It's worth remembering that all special attacks are separate attacks, even when this is non-intuitive. For instance, the NATO Warrior has AP rounds instead of an AT missile, which allows it to a) increase it's ROF by about 25%, as the 'AP shots' are separate to normal firing and b) really mess up choppers, because the AP shots can still shoot at them. With things like heavy tanks, the HEAT shot does not reset the cooldown on the normal shot, so against light units or fortifications you can fire two or three shots in quick succession.
PS don't be those idiots who shoot HEAT at heavy tanks.
A real advantage to JSF's very aggressive style is that it makes it much harder for the average WiC player to hit him with TA: they expect tankers to sit still and grind through defences or sit on points, and not charge straight past the lines and wipe out their team three times over before being destroyed. Watching heavy artillery try to run away from his flying column never stops being funny.
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Uraniun235
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I'm thinking later in the game, after a heavy attack copter squadron blows away my entire force.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
If you're not near HAA or have a chopper player around, you're fucked, end of story. Either get used to being regularly wiped out by choppers (this happens to JSF when we're on opposite sides all the time) or hang around defence. With sequential smoke-popping and an A2A TA you can kill noobish air guys, but most will circle you or simply move away once you pop smoke. Half-measures like taking a medium AA is pretty much a waste of time against all but complete noobs, and things like Bradleys aren't going to kill a chopper swarm before they've fired all their missiles and moved on.
It's worth noting that being destroyed in this way isn't always such a terrible thing. Like I said, it happens to JSF all the time, and he still wins best armour, best command point, etc. I've noticed that the only people who ever thank you for saves are armour guys: arty guys are too busy shelling empty points to pay attention to their rear areas (which is why they get killed all the time) and infantry guys can look after themselves. When you swing past with some air and kill/drive off a heavy chopper swarm, you just saved the tanker a minute of driving and probably helped cap a point for your team.
Can I ask how you use your camera? If you spot heavy choppers incoming, you can start heading for HAA or pre-emptively pop smoke (exposing your most heavily damaged unit to suck out their rockets/missiles). You'll always be on the back foot but you can mitigate the damage - but if the enemy has a full 5 heavy chopper squad flying around, it's time to change to support or air and take back air superiority.
It's worth noting that being destroyed in this way isn't always such a terrible thing. Like I said, it happens to JSF all the time, and he still wins best armour, best command point, etc. I've noticed that the only people who ever thank you for saves are armour guys: arty guys are too busy shelling empty points to pay attention to their rear areas (which is why they get killed all the time) and infantry guys can look after themselves. When you swing past with some air and kill/drive off a heavy chopper swarm, you just saved the tanker a minute of driving and probably helped cap a point for your team.
Can I ask how you use your camera? If you spot heavy choppers incoming, you can start heading for HAA or pre-emptively pop smoke (exposing your most heavily damaged unit to suck out their rockets/missiles). You'll always be on the back foot but you can mitigate the damage - but if the enemy has a full 5 heavy chopper squad flying around, it's time to change to support or air and take back air superiority.
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Uraniun235
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My camera tends to be angled below the horizon; it's just more comfortable for me that way when I go about moving units.
I can see how armor becomes so dull now.
Ugh. I'd gladly trade away first or second place for having more options than "deploy nothing but heavies" and not having to wait for 4800 points to have an effective force. I should really learn how to play infantry, or air. Or artillery.It's worth noting that being destroyed in this way isn't always such a terrible thing. Like I said, it happens to JSF all the time, and he still wins best armour, best command point, etc.
I can see how armor becomes so dull now.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
There are plenty of options, but unless you have air superiority or a specific goal, nothing beats full heavies.
Infantry is awesome, but micro heavy (they can look after themselves, though: a few infantry squads scare choppers away easily). Air is quite a different game with higher speed, no terrain and turns into batting about saving the day over and over. Support... well support's for snipers and repairwhores.
I mostly play air, so I usually use a really high, almost horizontal camera (I want to see HAA or other choppers as early as possible). However JSF uses a really low camera to get a better sense of the terrain and LOS, which is important to tanks but irrelevant for choppers.
Really, if you're off doing things by yourself, you'll get ruled no matter who you are. Make your demands known with the Q-menu, most people are sheep and will just do what you say.
Infantry is awesome, but micro heavy (they can look after themselves, though: a few infantry squads scare choppers away easily). Air is quite a different game with higher speed, no terrain and turns into batting about saving the day over and over. Support... well support's for snipers and repairwhores.
I mostly play air, so I usually use a really high, almost horizontal camera (I want to see HAA or other choppers as early as possible). However JSF uses a really low camera to get a better sense of the terrain and LOS, which is important to tanks but irrelevant for choppers.
Really, if you're off doing things by yourself, you'll get ruled no matter who you are. Make your demands known with the Q-menu, most people are sheep and will just do what you say.
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Alan Bolte
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Well, I just bought the thing with my Circuit City gift card (side note: it is impossible to find a decent headset in this town). Back in beta, when I played armor I would get heavies and a scout chopper, and use the chopper's superior vision to guarantee a range advantage against enemy tanks, and to provide early warning against packs of enemy helos. I'd sometimes do the same for my artillery, but when playing support I generally found it more useful to deploy AA to follow friendly armor around. Is this still a viable strategy?
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montypython
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Ritterin Sophia
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I've had great success at LANs using a light tank brigade, actually. You can't hope to take out more than one heavy or two mediums without heavy losses, but you can sure as hell outrun them and use cover to draw them into traps.
Also, points grabbing is much easier with a very fast, mobile force that can fend off pretty much any infantry attack and still escape other tanks and, in some cases, helicopters (i,e, split up the forces into two squads when the air attacks, one goes straight back to AA, the other scatters to the winds to draw them off.)
Also, points grabbing is much easier with a very fast, mobile force that can fend off pretty much any infantry attack and still escape other tanks and, in some cases, helicopters (i,e, split up the forces into two squads when the air attacks, one goes straight back to AA, the other scatters to the winds to draw them off.)
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
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Uraniun235
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If your light tank brigade has problems with one heavy tank, what do you do when you see FOUR heavies coming at you?
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
I take advantage of my ability to flee very quickly. Often leaving a a few tanks behind to slow the advance and do at least some damage. (I've previously defeated 3 heavy tanks with a brigade, but I got taken down to 2 lights. Not a good trade.)
"Doctors keep their scalpels and other instruments handy, for emergencies. Keep your philosophy ready too—ready to understand heaven and earth. In everything you do, even the smallest thing, remember the chain that links them. Nothing earthly succeeds by ignoring heaven, nothing heavenly by ignoring the earth." M.A.A.A
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Rightous Fist Of Heaven
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True, most arty players also dont know the concept of fire and maneuver. Sitting still in the same spot is making them a TA target waiting to get fucked up. Although, rear area security really isn't easy for Arty players. They don't have anything that could do jack shit against an enemy armor player who manages to get to his rear.Stark wrote:Who knows? Artillery is boring as shit.General Schatten wrote:Any changes to Arty since Beta?
"The ones they built at the height of nuclear weapons could knock the earth out of its orbit" - Physics expert Envy in reference to the hydrogen bombs built during the cold war.
It doesn't help that they like to sit on the rear line, often behind the approach that allied units AREN'T using, so they get surprised far out of range of any support. Staying in the footprint of the team at least lets them gain security from everyone else's spotting range and might have friendlies nearby.
But hey, 'stop the shelling when friendlies move in to cap the point' is beyond most arty players too.
But hey, 'stop the shelling when friendlies move in to cap the point' is beyond most arty players too.
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Vehrec
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Heavy arty takes time to setup and get moving. for a lot of people, this alone might explain their methods of playing with it. Really, for what most Arty gets used for, Medium is better. It's much more mobile, and can lay down an infantry killing barrage just as well as the heavy. And the lower points cost means you can play another role, repair or AA, take your pick.
But most people don't pay attention to that I imagine.
But most people don't pay attention to that I imagine.
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