[40k] Diplomacy with da orks

Pulp Hero · Post by **Pulp Hero** » 2008-01-13 03:14pm

Yeah, I know, I know, "diplomacy" and "orks" shouldn't be in the same sentence, unless it also includes "dakka".

But I am writing some fluff to go with my IG army, and want to write about locals negotiating with on-planet ork clans.

I want to know if there is ANY official fluff precedent for negotiating with orks. And what are everybody's feelings on what would be okay?

Various ideas I'm tossing around:

-An agreement made by the local governor and an ork warboss, giving him guns (and just enough ammo) every year in exchange that the warboss only use the guns against other ork clans. Possibly another, identical Imperial agreement with another ork clan, with neither clan knowing that the other is being supported (thus keeping them evenly matched, relying on Imperial guns, and busy killing eachother).

-An agreement to only fight during certain seasons, thus providing the orks "wit a betta fight 'gainst da humies"

-A one time agreement made to fight a battle in a certain spot. The orks thinking they are being "cunnin'" agree, but break the deal and attack somewhere else, falling right into an Imperial trap.

Thoughts?

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-13 03:38pm

The Blood Axes are an entire strata of Orky society that is noted for being too "humie". They do things like wear camouflage, retreat when not losing, and negotiate and tradew tih humans.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2008-01-13 04:51pm

A good way is to have a human take out an ork in single combat while both sides watch. How this could happen is beyond me, but they listen to anything that hits harder then them, and a human taking out a warboss in a duel would probably make them listen. Although, unless your commissar yarrick, you really don't stand a chance in hell against an ork warboss in a duel. Especially one that's melee.

Pulp Hero · Post by **Pulp Hero** » 2008-01-13 04:59pm

40k is full of strange things, and remember that as long as the odds of something happening are exactly one in a million, it has to, by literary law, happen.

I'm thinking perhaps an ork falling off a cliff- Homer Simpson style.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-01-13 04:59pm

The Blood Axes are clan of Orks, not a "strata". They also were also renowned for hiring themselves out as mercenaries to anyone who would pay them. However, they are not as many Blood Axes around as there used to be, because the other Orks killed them off for not being Orky enough.

Orks can be negotiated it with, it really depends on the nature of the clan and their warboss. While most Orks live in a state of near anarchy, there do exist several semi-stable Orkish nations. Before the rise of the Imperium of Man and their xenophobic policies, these nations sometimes had formal relations human enclaves, engaging in trade and diplomacy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2008-01-13 05:05pm

The best idea would be if the locals either gave them guns, or found the Orks something better to fight.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2008-01-13 05:27pm

Tasoth wrote:A good way is to have a human take out an ork in single combat while both sides watch. How this could happen is beyond me, but they listen to anything that hits harder then them, and a human taking out a warboss in a duel would probably make them listen. Although, unless your commissar yarrick, you really don't stand a chance in hell against an ork warboss in a duel. Especially one that's melee.

I would like to point out that Commissar Ciaphas Cain won just such a duel. So, it's definitely possible, just very, very, hard.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2008-01-13 05:28pm

From the original Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader rulebook:

Caption: "Relationships between humanity and Orks have always been somewhat strained."

Pulp Hero · Post by **Pulp Hero** » 2008-01-13 05:31pm

fgalkin wrote:
Tasoth wrote:A good way is to have a human take out an ork in single combat while both sides watch. How this could happen is beyond me, but they listen to anything that hits harder then them, and a human taking out a warboss in a duel would probably make them listen. Although, unless your commissar yarrick, you really don't stand a chance in hell against an ork warboss in a duel. Especially one that's melee.
I would like to point out that Commissar Ciaphas Cain won just such a duel. So, it's definitely possible, just very, very, hard.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Oh damnit, I was going to have a Commissar fight an Ork. They stole my idea- before I even had it! Bastards.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2008-01-13 05:37pm

Pulp Hero wrote:
fgalkin wrote:
Tasoth wrote:A good way is to have a human take out an ork in single combat while both sides watch. How this could happen is beyond me, but they listen to anything that hits harder then them, and a human taking out a warboss in a duel would probably make them listen. Although, unless your commissar yarrick, you really don't stand a chance in hell against an ork warboss in a duel. Especially one that's melee.
I would like to point out that Commissar Ciaphas Cain won just such a duel. So, it's definitely possible, just very, very, hard.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Oh damnit, I was going to have a Commissar fight an Ork. They stole my idea- before I even had it! Bastards.

Well, in that case, it was more of a case of Cain and Co accidentally stumbling onto the Warboss' encampment, running into the Warboss himslelf, while trying to escape, killing the Warboss, then burninating his subordinates as they stand there going "Whaaa?" The rest of the Ork leadership immediately begin fighting who gets to be the next boss. As a result, the WAAAGH! is thrown into disarray, and is steamrolled by the Imperials. Thus, Cain (accidentally) saved yet another planet.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2008-01-13 05:43pm

They beat you to the commissar-warboss fight way back in the days of Battle for Armageddon. Also, I did not know Caine did that, which makes him even greater in my eyes.

Pulp Hero · Post by **Pulp Hero** » 2008-01-13 05:46pm

Tasoth wrote:They beat you to the commissar-warboss fight way back in the days of Battle for Armageddon. Also, I did not know Caine did that, which makes him even greater in my eyes.

Yeah, but my fight was going to a semi comedic fight with the warboss getting killed accidentally. As so as I heard the name "Cain" I didn't need to hear the rest.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-01-13 07:56pm

In the storyline for Dawn of War, the Chaos Marines made such a deal with the Orks: lure the Space Marines to Tartarus to give the Orks a good fight, and provide the Orks with weapons with which to fight them. It was assumed that the Orks would turn on Chaos eventually (when they finished with the Marines, if not before), but it worked.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-01-13 08:31pm

Why didn't Cain fight the other strong orks and claim the WAAAGH! for himself or xenophobic tendencies?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2008-01-13 09:56pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why didn't Cain fight the other strong orks and claim the WAAAGH! for himself or xenophobic tendencies?

Because Orks won't take orders from a Humie?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Jaevric · Post by **Jaevric** » 2008-01-13 11:12pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why didn't Cain fight the other strong orks and claim the WAAAGH! for himself or xenophobic tendencies?

Aside from fgalkin's response of "Because Orks won't take orders from a human," there's also the fact that Cain--by his own admission--got very, very lucky in killing the Warboss. Alternately, the God-Emperor himself intervened on Cain's behalf, though Cain would never even consider the possibility.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-14 12:50am

Adrian Laguna wrote:The Blood Axes are clan of Orks, not a "strata". They also were also renowned for hiring themselves out as mercenaries to anyone who would pay them. However, they are not as many Blood Axes around as there used to be, because the other Orks killed them off for not being Orky enough.

Well, Clans pretty much are stratas of Ork society. At least, that's what I remember reading from the new 4th edition Ork Codex.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-01-14 11:46am

fgalkin wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why didn't Cain fight the other strong orks and claim the WAAAGH! for himself or xenophobic tendencies?
Because Orks won't take orders from a Humie?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Actually, is there any reason why a really big, tuff "Enhanced" human couldn't beat a War-boss to death with his own skull and take over a WAAGH? (A Khornite would fit in swell, even if Chaos and Orkydom doesn't mix well, despite red & green being in-fasion

).
The only reason I can think of is a lack of "Alpha-plant" pheremones, or simple "Only an Ork can lead Orks" attitude (Specism

)

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2008-01-14 12:16pm

DEATH wrote:
fgalkin wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Why didn't Cain fight the other strong orks and claim the WAAAGH! for himself or xenophobic tendencies?
Because Orks won't take orders from a Humie?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Actually, is there any reason why a really big, tuff "Enhanced" human couldn't beat a War-boss to death with his own skull and take over a WAAGH? (A Khornite would fit in swell, even if Chaos and Orkydom doesn't mix well, despite red & green being in-fasion ).
The only reason I can think of is a lack of "Alpha-plant" pheremones, or simple "Only an Ork can lead Orks" attitude (Specism )

If theres anyone who could try it, its Chaos. Although an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor has the tusks of an Orkish boss implanted into his jaw as it apparently intimidates Orks to fight someone with bigger tusks than them.

But there is an inherent, perhaps designed in "orks first and only" meme/mechanic.

When a Daemon Prince takes control of an Orkish Waagh in Bloodquest, he has to possess the body of an Orkish warboss to do so, and once he's dead, the Orkish fleet immediately begins firing upon the tainted vessel, without any apparent event in which they would become aware of his death.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-14 12:40pm

DEATH wrote:Actually, is there any reason why a really big, tuff "Enhanced" human couldn't beat a War-boss to death with his own skull and take over a WAAGH? (A Khornite would fit in swell, even if Chaos and Orkydom doesn't mix well, despite red & green being in-fasion ).
The only reason I can think of is a lack of "Alpha-plant" pheremones, or simple "Only an Ork can lead Orks" attitude (Specism )

I'm half tempted to say it's what this abomination is for.

But logically, the Old Ones would have designed the Orks to take orders from either themselves, or other orks.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2008-01-14 01:00pm

NecronLord wrote:
DEATH wrote:Actually, is there any reason why a really big, tuff "Enhanced" human couldn't beat a War-boss to death with his own skull and take over a WAAGH? (A Khornite would fit in swell, even if Chaos and Orkydom doesn't mix well, despite red & green being in-fasion ).
The only reason I can think of is a lack of "Alpha-plant" pheremones, or simple "Only an Ork can lead Orks" attitude (Specism )
I'm half tempted to say it's what this abomination is for.

But logically, the Old Ones would have designed the Orks to take orders from either themselves, or other orks.

I can't wait until the edition with the Eye-Beamz turns up, its comedy gold, everyone buggering about in the foreground with Inquisition infighting, while in the background this humongous necron lord blasts things with doom rays.

Annatar Giftbringer · Post by **Annatar Giftbringer** » 2008-01-14 01:16pm

NecronLord wrote:
DEATH wrote:Actually, is there any reason why a really big, tuff "Enhanced" human couldn't beat a War-boss to death with his own skull and take over a WAAGH? (A Khornite would fit in swell, even if Chaos and Orkydom doesn't mix well, despite red & green being in-fasion ).
The only reason I can think of is a lack of "Alpha-plant" pheremones, or simple "Only an Ork can lead Orks" attitude (Specism )
I'm half tempted to say it's what this abomination is for.

But logically, the Old Ones would have designed the Orks to take orders from either themselves, or other orks.

Frak, that's a big Necron! What is it? Necron titan? Did someone accidentally mix Epic and 40k or what?

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2008-01-14 03:41pm

Peptuck wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:The Blood Axes are clan of Orks, not a "strata". They also were also renowned for hiring themselves out as mercenaries to anyone who would pay them. However, they are not as many Blood Axes around as there used to be, because the other Orks killed them off for not being Orky enough.
Well, Clans pretty much are stratas of Ork society. At least, that's what I remember reading from the new 4th edition Ork Codex.

Not really; One clan isn't really above another. Facets might be a better word.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-15 07:43pm

andrewgpaul wrote:
Peptuck wrote:
Adrian Laguna wrote:The Blood Axes are clan of Orks, not a "strata". They also were also renowned for hiring themselves out as mercenaries to anyone who would pay them. However, they are not as many Blood Axes around as there used to be, because the other Orks killed them off for not being Orky enough.
Well, Clans pretty much are stratas of Ork society. At least, that's what I remember reading from the new 4th edition Ork Codex.
Not really; One clan isn't really above another. Facets might be a better word.

Ah, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks for correcting me.