Human tyrannny or Benevolent dominion by machines (RAR!)

[Zor]

This thread is one i have been thinking about.

Basically, Q shows you the world in 150 and it is far from ideal. Man did not push into space in any way of sugnifigance and we have seen the consequences of Global Warming and peak oil which led to WWIII about five decades ago and disease (both natural and artificial), flooding and damaged infastructure has only futhered the decline of the speices. Civilization, for the posted has been reduced to bands of barbarians or city states, but two new powers have risen.

The First started in the southwestern section of the Former United States, in which a US Army General tasked himself with reuniting the union as well as invading Mexico to gain industrial support. However, resistance from Marxist, Dominionist, neo-nazi, black seperatist, neo-confederate and basically every other fringe group's militias and and localists, which turned him more and more towards totalitarianism and his restored united states within a few decades, became a totallitarian dictatorship. The dictatorship that the Restored United States is nominally secular and not praticularly homophobic or racist, but is highly militarized state (every man must serve 5 years in the militay and every woman must serve 5 years in either a branch of the military or in civil services) with secret police closely monitoring the people for decent and strong censorship. Industry is handled by ruling party owned corperations and state owned forced labour camps, where you go if you can't find regular employment and agriculture is set up as either giant party owned estates staffed by tenant farmers or as tiny subsistance farms on the fringes of the empire. Law is brutal and harsh and guilt for the most part is assumed, not proven. Standards of living are for the most part low, at best aproaching the standards of Russia around 2008 for the Proles while the ruling party Elite (5% of the population) of the ruling party live in reletive luxury and while it is possible for common people to join the party and ascend through the ranks, purges of sections of party members are a rather common part what happens when the President of the Restored US gets sucseeded. Current territory of the Restored United States is mexico, most of america save for West coast and Utah (now Deseret), Cuba and parts of eastern Canada. They have only recently established a nuclear arsenal, the US nuclear arsenal being depleted during the War and conquest of primatives was seen as a greater threat. Ultimately, the Restored US desires to take over the world.

The second section of this is the Machines. A Sapient Supercomputer (one of several and the only one to survive) was developed in Australia a few years before the war, assembled in NSW in a small town in a facility hardened against EMP with some robotic equipment and a small nuclear reactor, nanomachines for electronics production and ascess to coal. After the war, with some assistance from the townsfolk and some, the supercomputer set about establishing a robotics industry and fending off local Bogan Barbarians with increasingly sophisiticated war robots under it's control and gradually assuming more and more authority over the town, eventually it began expantion, securing territory with military robots. For the first decade, this was backed by human militia, but this was gradually displaced by machine forces. Within a decade, it had set itself up the most powerful industrial base in the region and had expanded over much of NSW, slowed only by the speed at which it could set up logistical support for it's automated armies. Within twenty five years, it secured all of Australia and had launched an invasion of New Zealand, with additional sapient machines being assembled. Human Rule was gradually phased out, surplanted by machine rule, until eventually it solidified with the signing of a new constitution, creating the first Constitutional Computerized state known as the Machine Empire. In the Machine Empire, everything is ruled over by a council of sapient AIs coded to rule by a constitution, with humans having no actual power within the empire, although they are free to voice complaints and move about Secure Zones. The Machine Empire is divided into two types of territories, Secure Zones (areas that have been well intergrated into the Machine Empire) and Newly Encorperated Zones (Newly aquired territories that are under martial law). The Constitution of the Machine Empire is well respected and Law is not arbirtary, nor does the Machine Empire preform more harsh punishment than life imprisonment although survialence of the population is high. The AIs in charge of the Machine Empire are ultimately Atheists and don't care about sexual things nor are they racist and work against religious fanatics. In the Secure Zones, people enjoy a high standard of life in comparison to that of the Restored United States. The Machine Empire currently controls Australia, New Zealand, a good deal of the east indies and is moving into Southeastern Asia. Ultimately, the Machine Empire has come to the conclusion that Humanity is unfit to rule itself and as such, it must take over the world.

The Machine Empire holds an advantage in Navel Power and in numbers of automated soldiers, the Restored United States holds an advantage in Airpower, raw industrial output of resources such as steel, energy and coal and in military preparadness of the population and of cities. Both have comprable nuclear arsenals at this point as well as well developed strategic defense systems.

Now what Q offers you is the ability to give one of these two nations an advantage of some sort that will allow them to conquer the other in a war, leading to them taking over the planet. So do you give this advantage to the Human, but tyrannical Restored United States or provide freedom for mankind, at the expense of forefiting it's right to rule itself by giving the power to the Machine Empire?

Zor

[Zablorg]

I give the power to the Machine Empire. It just seems like a better life to me.

[Xess]

Friendly AGI or tyrannical humans? I'll take the friendly AGI, humans are stupid and a super-intelligence that doesn't want to kill humans and is actually helping them is pretty much the sweetest deal you can get.

We may not be able to govern ourselves but we can still voice our opinions and have them rationally considered by the AIs. Screw the RUSA.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

I don't know. I'd much rather see humans ruling humans however shitty we may be. While the good machines might think ruling humans is fine other AI might start feeling contempt for the fleshy creatures they care for that designed them. Like an adult child who doesn't want to keep caring for an ailing aging parent. Humans largely aren't going to wipe out themselves. We need each other to survive. AI have no necessity in keeping man around other than "Well it's a nice thing to do". In order to maximize their own evolution it'd be better to rid itself of man which could cause problems.

I'd say give the advantage to totalitarian state of humans. Reunited US starts massive propaganda campaign in south America, Africa, Europe and west asia. Gains support, sets up a ASAT network, brings down anti-missile defense and navy due to air superiority, glasses Australia and wipes out sapient AI in a manner not unlike the IoM and then it become the IoM.

[FSTargetDrone]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I'd rather be living in relative machine peace than despotic tyranny. Bring on the Happy Cylons.

[Zablorg]

In order to maximize their own evolution it'd be better to rid itself of man which could cause problems.

I don't see how getting rid of man would help them in any way. Under this new rule, would we be competition for any resources they may use? Would we take up too much space? I think not!

[Winston Blake]

fending off local Bogan Barbarians with increasingly sophisiticated war robots

I like your style.

The Machine Empire holds an advantage in Navel Power and in numbers of automated soldiers, the Restored United States holds an advantage in Airpower, raw industrial output of resources such as steel, energy and coal and in military preparadness of the population and of cities. Both have comprable nuclear arsenals at this point as well as well developed strategic defense systems.

You know, it sounds like the R.U.S. has a pretty big advantage. Not that it makes any difference, what with Q and all.

So do you give this advantage to the Human, but tyrannical Restored United States or provide freedom for mankind, at the expense of forefiting it's right to rule itself by giving the power to the Machine Empire?

I would give it to the Machine Empire. All indications are that they truly are friendly. Since they like keeping us around for some reason, they're probably the best hope for getting humanity off Earth and into space. The R.U.S. just looks like another few centuries of strife and infighting in an eternally dwindling world, possibly leading to the death of the species and little trace that intelligent life ever existed.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I'd also go with the Machine Empire. First, because they appear benevolent.

Second, because barring a permanent collapse of civilization or some sort of eternal anti-AI dictatorship, I consider the eventual development of uncontrolled AI nearly inevitable, and in this scenario we were lucky to get a benevolent and sane version; I'd prefer not to roll the dice over.

Third, because I have no great loyalty to species; if the relatively good guys are machines, I'll go with the machines.

[WesFox13]

Chalk up another vote for the Machine Empire. I think it's a great place, so what if we don't rule ourselves. The machines make us happy and so long as we follow the law and don't get in trouble we will live happy lives.
*Hugs his Robotic buddy* Robots are your friends.!

[The Grim Squeaker]

I'd say the A.I's, but I can't honestly say it's the better long choice for our survival as a species.
For all the fluffiness of AI, it's still not human, not biological, and if it doesn't need us, and decides to take the long term view (As in, millions+) and realizes that it doesn't need all those humans around, and that they're the only potential threat left...
Still, I'll be optimistic and hope for a Mind more than a Skynet or Amitskaw

[Invictus ChiKen]

How can I serve my Robotic Lords?

[The_Saint]

Who could pass on a robot with a local accent...

I'm in for the AI...

[Coalition]

Machines. If nothing else, maybe the technology will be developed to allow uploading into a machine brain, so I can join them in immortality.

[Sarevok]

Good governence by an iron fist sure beats oppresion from leather boots.

[NoXion]

Machines and technology do almost everything better than humans, so why not governance? They can't possibly fuck it up any worse than we have...

Plus: Anti-fascist cyborgs!

[Zixinus]

With an AI, at least I can be assured that the people above me won't be bothering with those idiotic flaws that almost any human government develops. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if our Machine Lords would be far more efficient in government then any other human-run government system known. Far less paperwork, just to make an example.

Life would be relative leisure that way anyway. You don't have to worry about secret police stomping at your door, and thrust me, it doesn't matter that the dictatorship is secular and doesn't give a shit about your sexual practises. See Soviet Union.

And who knows, maybe our Machine Lords change their minds later on, or help humanity hasten its evolution until its more fit to rule itself. May the world of the Man of Steel come!

No sexism intended.

[Mayabird]

Depends. Can I slowly convert my body to a machine? Like, heart starts breaking down, replace that, bits of my brain start failing, replace them, until little by little without noticing the difference I'm an android or something?

[Sarevok]

Instead of the sexless life of a robot it would be better if the machine overlords build a matrix like virtual Earth for it's subjects. Then one can have all the benefits only a human life can provide while enjoying immortality.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Instead of the sexless life of a robot it would be better if the machine overlords build a matrix like virtual Earth for it's subjects. Then one can have all the benefits only a human life can provide while enjoying immortality.

There's no reason a properly designed robot-with-a-human-mind couldn't be sexual. It's got the right "software" to actually want and enjoy sex; give it the right external look, feel and tactile sensors and you're all set.

Oh, and you'd need some sort of hormone simulation program feeding into the human mind, but that's pretty much implied with transforming/transferring a human mind into a machine. A human mind needs input from the body for proper emotions.