The Opt-Out Organ Donor System

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

No, they don't say what is specifically unconstitutional. They just assert the "state" has no power to do that because it's not explicitly mentioned. It makes no sense.

[Winston Blake]

I don't see any real problem with opt-out organ donation, except:

1. The number of people who die after it's declared, but before they get their forms in or whatever.

2. Poor or stupid people who are too desperate or lazy to bother finding out how to opt out. You can say 'lol stupid', but it's still going against their wishes.

3. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty'. That is, society would rather risk letting a criminal go free than risk imprisoning an innocent person. Similarly, what is better? To let someone die for lack of an organ? Or to butcher somebody who didn't want it?

#1 can be solved by giving people a few months to get their affairs in order. #2 can be solved by making it a legal document if someone writes 'Do not want organ donation' on a soiled receipt in their wallet. #3 is the tricky part. Personally I care more about people dying for lack of transplants than medical students whining about learning materials.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I would say it's better to butcher someone who didn't want it than let someone die. One allows the termination of someone's live prematurely. The only thing the latter does is impact a dead body with no interests.

[SCRawl]

I would say it's better to butcher someone who didn't want it than let someone die. One allows the termination of someone's live prematurely. The only thing the latter does is impact a dead body with no interests.

This has always been my take on organ donations. As far as I'm concerned, once my brain has stopped working -- some would argue that this has already happened, but I digress -- my body is a piece of meat. I don't know why anyone would give a fuck about the disposition of meat, especially since they'll be dead at the time.

[Broomstick]

Because to some people it's very special meat.

[Molyneux]

Because to some people it's very special meat.

Then they're idiots.
Smoked salmon is very special meat. A dead body is useless if you just let it rot in the ground, but can save lives if it's put to good use.

[Dartzap]

Actually, we do have a constitution. It just happens to be invisible.

[Broomstick]

Englishmen - the other other white meat

(I am so going to hell for that....)

[Dartzap]

Englishmen - the other other white meat

(I am so going to hell for that....)

Remind me never to inform any of the more patriotic US citizens on this forum what 'Yank' actually means!

[size=0]Cockney Rhyming Slang - Yank = Septic Tank[/size]

[Molyneux]

Englishmen - the other other white meat

(I am so going to hell for that....)

Remind me never to inform any of the more patriotic US citizens on this forum what 'Yank' actually means!

[size=0]Cockney Rhyming Slang - Yank = Septic Tank[/size]

"Brit" rhymes with unflattering things too...
But then again, any group of people who invent a rhyming slang obviously aren't too overburdened in the brains department. >_>

[Dartzap]

Englishmen - the other other white meat

(I am so going to hell for that....)

Remind me never to inform any of the more patriotic US citizens on this forum what 'Yank' actually means!

[size=0]Cockney Rhyming Slang - Yank = Septic Tank[/size]

"Brit" rhymes with unflattering things too...
But then again, any group of people who invent a rhyming slang obviously aren't too overburdened in the brains department. >_>

And that is why Cockneys are hunted down for the abomination that they are. Chimney sweeps the lotta 'em

[bilateralrope]

I don't see any real problem with opt-out organ donation, except:

1. The number of people who die after it's declared, but before they get their forms in or whatever.

2. Poor or stupid people who are too desperate or lazy to bother finding out how to opt out. You can say 'lol stupid', but it's still going against their wishes.

3. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty'. That is, society would rather risk letting a criminal go free than risk imprisoning an innocent person. Similarly, what is better? To let someone die for lack of an organ? Or to butcher somebody who didn't want it?

#1 can be solved by giving people a few months to get their affairs in order. #2 can be solved by making it a legal document if someone writes 'Do not want organ donation' on a soiled receipt in their wallet. #3 is the tricky part. Personally I care more about people dying for lack of transplants than medical students whining about learning materials.

#1 - You have already give a solution to, but I'd add in a permanent gap between when someone can first opt out and when their organs can be harvested. So if organs can be harvested from age 18, you will get a letter about 3 months before your 18th birthday asking if you want to opt out.

#2 - Aren't these the people we are trying to get organs from with an opt-out system ?

#3 - I'd go with save the persons life every time.

I'd probably have the opt out registration setup so that if you have opted out of donating you will get a letter every few years asking if you to again confirm that you have opted out. If you don't return the letter within a few months then your organs can be harvested again.

If your not on the opt-out list you receive nothing beyond the letter saying your organs can be harvested, but you put yourself onto the opt-out list at any time by filling out the right forms.

[Melchior]

Personally I care more about people dying for lack of transplants than medical students whining about learning materials.

Worse education-->more errors-->more avoidable deaths.

[Melchior]

Personally I care more about people dying for lack of transplants than medical students whining about learning materials.

Worse education-->more errors-->more avoidable deaths.

[Broomstick]

My sister, who recently earned her MD, said she was glad she got to actually dissect a cadaver, but she had to share it among several other students, and one of the frustrating aspects was that many of the cadavers were missing parts ("Hey, our guy doesn't have an appendix - can we look at yours, does she still have hers?"). Also said it was highly educational to observe pacemakers, surgical scars, and so forth - something you don't get from an idealized simulation. You get abnormal structures, cancers, things that didn't form or formed differently than normal...

Thing is, after you get the usable organs and bits you could, potentially, pass the rest on to medical students. Even bodies not suitable for donation can have a role in science - actual human corpses were used and are still sometimes used to gather to information needed to make crash dummies that give useful information. Then there's that laboratory in Virginia that studies decomposition and has been extremely useful in advancing forensic knowledge and crime solving.

Essentially, there is a LOT your corpse can do to help mankind after you're done with it, and it goes far beyond organ donation. But there is a relucatance to use bodies because of the emotional baggage that comes with a human corpse.

[SCRawl]

Even bodies not suitable for donation can have a role in science - actual human corpses were used and are still sometimes used to gather to information needed to make crash dummies that give useful information.

Ewww, there's a job I think I'd pass on -- the guy who has to squeegee the "dummy" out of the car on a daily basis.

[Broomstick]

They usually endeavor to NOT liquify said human remains, as much as that might appeal to some of our more ghoulish members. Rather, the attempt is to induce such injuries as are typically seen in actual car accidents to better understand how they occur and how they may be prevented. Said bodies are usually also thoroughly clothed/covered which would minimize, ah, shrapnel.

The book Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers by Mary Roach in Chapter 4, "Dead Man Driving" chronicles one such test, which was sort of anticlimatic to watch. Other chapters deal with other roles the dead play in research as well as other topics. Apparently the difficulty in the aftermatch was so much the need for a squeegee but the usually difficulty of dragging away a totally limp, full-size adult male body. US body, not some short skinny type.