Sarah Connor Chronicles premiere(spoilers)

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-01-17 05:28pm

I don't remember the US flag. I found the scene mildly annoying but hey, 9/11 must seem pretty shocking for someone from 1999. It sounded mre like Sarah saw it as a sign of the worsening situation, not as equivalent to a nuking.

I'm not sure it was even the worst of her self-indulgent, poorly-directed monologues.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2008-01-17 06:31pm

The flag in my post was metaphorical.

That's just the thing - I don't see how 9/11 can be shocking to someone who spent essentially her whole adult life toughening herself and her kid for the upcoming AI-induced nuclear holocaust. Compared to that, 9/11 should have her go "Lol, amateurs!", be a blip in her worldview with about the only thing interesting about it being the suckyness of the government response once again proving to her how humanity is going to be screwed. Or something. Certainly I wasn't expecting her reaction to be soccer-momish "9/11 changed everything!!!!".

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-01-17 08:59pm

I don't see how 9/11 can be shocking to someone who spent essentially her whole adult life toughening herself and her kid for the upcoming AI-induced nuclear holocaust.

Cause 9/11 happened and the holocaust still hasn't?

She's got to be INCREDIBLY jumpy over stuff like that. So not a fan of the monologue, but I don't think "lol amateurs" would be her response either.

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-01-17 11:37pm

ArmorPierce wrote:
Don't understand where you are getting at. Putting a nail through wood the force is transfered to the arm. It requires a certain amount of weight/pressure behind it. Sending a fist through the vault would require significantly more. Correct me if I'm wrong.

you might not be, I don't know the math behind it, but conceptually, you can't take a 16 oz steak and smash a piece of pressure treated wood and expect anything other than a shock up your arm and a nice wet plop. So yeah a human cant punch a safe with our meaty little arm and get anything but some serious pain. if you take a 16 oz hammer and a nail though the nail penetrates with not so much the shock. So a Terminator with an advanced metak arm and augmented stength could hit with enough energy over a small area to overcome the resistance of the door.
Again I am totally speaking conceptually, so i wouldnt be taht surprised if it was just Sci Fi effects

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2008-01-18 01:26am

Netko wrote:The flag in my post was metaphorical.

That's just the thing - I don't see how 9/11 can be shocking to someone who spent essentially her whole adult life toughening herself and her kid for the upcoming AI-induced nuclear holocaust.

'Cept 9/11 wasn't AI-induced. People flew those planes into those buildings, that's what probably got to her.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2008-01-18 07:54am

Darth Ruinus wrote:
Netko wrote:The flag in my post was metaphorical.

That's just the thing - I don't see how 9/11 can be shocking to someone who spent essentially her whole adult life toughening herself and her kid for the upcoming AI-induced nuclear holocaust.
'Cept 9/11 wasn't AI-induced. People flew those planes into those buildings, that's what probably got to her.

Regardless, the whole scene was hokey and poorly done. They should never have included it.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-01-18 12:23pm

Themightytom wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:
Don't understand where you are getting at. Putting a nail through wood the force is transfered to the arm. It requires a certain amount of weight/pressure behind it. Sending a fist through the vault would require significantly more. Correct me if I'm wrong.

you might not be, I don't know the math behind it, but conceptually, you can't take a 16 oz steak and smash a piece of pressure treated wood and expect anything other than a shock up your arm and a nice wet plop. So yeah a human cant punch a safe with our meaty little arm and get anything but some serious pain. if you take a 16 oz hammer and a nail though the nail penetrates with not so much the shock. So a Terminator with an advanced metak arm and augmented stength could hit with enough energy over a small area to overcome the resistance of the door.
Again I am totally speaking conceptually, so i wouldnt be taht surprised if it was just Sci Fi effects

It still takes an x amount of force either way to punch through the metal wall, wood. How many pounds of pressure would it take to punch through the door like that (I don't think he punched through the door anyway, more like crumpled it). Sending a nail through a piece of wood still requires force behind it. It may be less but realistically again how much force would be required to punch through a vault door?

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2008-01-20 08:18pm

I figured the 9/11 reaction was more because Sarah could understand and relate to it while she couldn't really grasp the sheer scale of Judgement Day no matter how hard she tried. As she mentioned in her monologue.

Any way I'm really enjoying this series.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-01-22 09:51am

My sister noted that Cameron acted like a normal human in the first episode, but the Terminatrix stopped acting so after she met John. You'd think the future John would program her to blend in better in a high school setting.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2008-01-22 10:09am

It's probably something that got lost between the pilot and the actual series. I don't think it's uncommon, so I don't really see it as too much of a flaw. Besides, we didn't really see her that much in high school in the pilot.

Also, she was laughing rather artificially at John's joke then too.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2008-01-22 12:01pm

Sidewinder wrote:My sister noted that Cameron acted like a normal human in the first episode, but the Terminatrix stopped acting so after she met John. You'd think the future John would program her to blend in better in a high school setting.

She did address that she was able to fool him as being a real teenager in the pilot. Its of course possible that she was just emulating an observed interaction between people in a similar situation, and wasn't actual learned human interaction.

Anyone else really surprised with how well done this show seems to be? Maybe its just the really really low expectations I had for it, but I really hope this show succeeds.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2008-01-22 01:23pm

Hopefully I misheard, but did the guy that made that Turk imply that game consoles run using lots of tiny gears?

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2008-01-22 01:31pm

Another question for this week's episode. What's the origin of those school graffiti? I caught something like "Traumboi Fresco" ?

Anyway this episode was quite interesting. John being forced to lay low and that girl looking like Claire Danes.

Still not impressed of the series, but still interested on going on.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2008-01-22 02:04pm

I thought it was slightly too slow. I think they need another subplot going on to keep things interesting. I didn't like that they are finding all the forefathers or whatever you want to call them of Skynet and with little assistance they are pushing them to the level of actually making some of the future stuff already. Especially when it seems like they are all just closet geniuses and not part of huge research teams.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2008-01-22 04:49pm

Meest wrote:I thought it was slightly too slow. I think they need another subplot going on to keep things interesting. I didn't like that they are finding all the forefathers or whatever you want to call them of Skynet and with little assistance they are pushing them to the level of actually making some of the future stuff already. Especially when it seems like they are all just closet geniuses and not part of huge research teams.

They aren't finding the forefathers of Skynet, they are trying to find the little thread that slipped past them in T2 that allowed for a later release of Skynet. They have no idea how the Skynet project survived and so they are grasping at straws here. The Turk was nothing(although a machine cobbled together from Playstations and Xboxes isn't very far removed from Skynet), but it was a sub-AI being worked on by someone that work with Miles Dyson at Cyberdine. Something slipped by them, and its better to torch this Franken-Deep Blue than let it potentially evolve into Skynet.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-22 05:31pm

Anarchist Bunny wrote:
Meest wrote:I thought it was slightly too slow. I think they need another subplot going on to keep things interesting. I didn't like that they are finding all the forefathers or whatever you want to call them of Skynet and with little assistance they are pushing them to the level of actually making some of the future stuff already. Especially when it seems like they are all just closet geniuses and not part of huge research teams.
They aren't finding the forefathers of Skynet, they are trying to find the little thread that slipped past them in T2 that allowed for a later release of Skynet. They have no idea how the Skynet project survived and so they are grasping at straws here. The Turk was nothing(although a machine cobbled together from Playstations and Xboxes isn't very far removed from Skynet), but it was a sub-AI being worked on by someone that work with Miles Dyson at Cyberdine. Something slipped by them, and its better to torch this Franken-Deep Blue than let it potentially evolve into Skynet.

The plan seems awfully short-sighted to me, at least. I mean, if a random closet genius like Good is potentially able to slap together a proto-AI like the Turk that can evolve into Skynet using what are essentially off-the-shelf parts, then destroying the Turk is only a brief stopgap measure; eventually, someone else will do the same thing using the same technology, and a research firm directed toward real, professional development of AI technology would potentially far outstrip a single closet genius' work. And since Sarah just destroyed the Turk and didn't kill Good, that means he can potentially rebuild it. May take him years, but he's already shown the capability to assemble it with off-the-shelf components.

Then again, there's a lot of desperation involved here, and its possible that other AI research could produce something different from Skynet. Like you said, they're probably hunting down all possible threads that could lead to Skynet, but I don't think that would work very well if they just start destroying any potential AI.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2008-01-22 06:02pm

They are attempting to stop a very particular type of AI. That is one who has a genocidal bent against humanity and is based on Skynet's development.

Skynet was never ment to go sentient, and as thus was never properly trained to not go and off humanity.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2008-01-22 10:47pm

It seems like Fox is tossing a lot at this to make it a success.

Though I really hope they speed up a bit. I want to know who that last Resistance member is that's lurking around. Maybe that's just to make me want to stick around. Oh, and there's an actress I recognize (one of the cops from The Shield). Seems like they're getting some decently known people for this.

And I find it rather neat that John is becoming more of a hardass while Sarah seems to be softening. Maybe her attempted murder of Dyson taught her something. I hope that John is able to develop more and become something of what he is in the future.

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-01-23 12:51pm

I'm losing interest in the John Connor character. First he was a Legendary leader who rose from the ashes to lead us to victory. more and more he's getting foreknowledge off the future, and advance training which dillutes for me the heroic aspect of it.
The exchange between the federal agents seemed forced.
Is there a subplot going on with the graffiti? maybe a buffy esque terminator cult or something? What was with the lemming? how did that contribute to the plot?
This show has potential its already not living up to.
Summer Glau is back to playing nonsensical killing machine. Shiny.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-23 05:46pm

What was with the lemming? how did that contribute to the plot?

What I got from it was that the girl killing herself pissed John off, since Cameron wouldn't let him save the girl in order to not draw attention to himself. He knows he's supposed to be this great leader and hero, but neither his mother nor Cameron are letting him become what he is supposed to be, which is the whole point behind why they're protecting him in the first place.

In other words, by the very act of protecting John so he can become a hero, Sarah and Cameron are making it impossible for him to become that hero in the first place. I think its setting things up for John to take more control and to take more risks later on in the series.

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2008-01-23 08:38pm

the second episode made me wonder exactly how 800 series terminators are made. When he's looking to get new organs for himself he only gets a heart, what about the rest?

I remember the trailer to terminator 2 on the total recall VHS tape. There was a special machine that closes over the skeleton and a few seconds later, all his organic systems are there. I figure it might be nearly impossible to go back to the way he used to be, he needs blood vessels as well, and nerves. Try to think about putting all those back correctly in the right order.

There's so much a "cyborg" if you can term it that would need. We see terminators from Cameron can eat, or pretend to at least. They would need a digestive system to make new cells, an immune system, a circulatory system, urinary system and if they lost too much blood all those systems would fall apart.

He mentions in Terminator 2 when Sarah is pulling the bullets out of his back that the bullet wounds will heal, which means he can make new cells, wouldn't this REQUIRE him to eat?

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2008-01-23 08:40pm

Xon wrote:They are attempting to stop a very particular type of AI. That is one who has a genocidal bent against humanity and is based on Skynet's development.

Skynet was never ment to go sentient, and as thus was never properly trained to not go and off humanity.

I wonder, does anyone here know for fact that they are throwing the T3 story/plot out the window? Or just altering it? Arnold in T3 said Judgement day was inevitable.

Peptuck · Post by **Peptuck** » 2008-01-23 09:29pm

Shrykull wrote:the second episode made me wonder exactly how 800 series terminators are made. When he's looking to get new organs for himself he only gets a heart, what about the rest?

I remember the trailer to terminator 2 on the total recall VHS tape. There was a special machine that closes over the skeleton and a few seconds later, all his organic systems are there. I figure it might be nearly impossible to go back to the way he used to be, he needs blood vessels as well, and nerves. Try to think about putting all those back correctly in the right order.

There's so much a "cyborg" if you can term it that would need. We see terminators from Cameron can eat, or pretend to at least. They would need a digestive system to make new cells, an immune system, a circulatory system, urinary system and if they lost too much blood all those systems would fall apart.

He mentions in Terminator 2 when Sarah is pulling the bullets out of his back that the bullet wounds will heal, which means he can make new cells, wouldn't this REQUIRE him to eat?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are capable of processing organic material to maintain their skin coating. I'm trying to remember where I read it (probably somewhere on Wikipedia) but there's supposed to be a deleted scene in T2 where the T800 says he has to eat to maintain his biological covering.

I think. Mileage and reality may vary.

Darth Smiley · Post by **Darth Smiley** » 2008-01-23 09:31pm

Not only are they screwing T3, they are also screwing with the Books (not that T3 didn't already screw those over). And those actually made some degree of sense, though admittedly not a lot. In particular, it explains how Skynet manages to do so much damage and set up automated factories to support itself, something that is actually a really big hole in the whole 'lolz evil computer takes over teh world111' plot - how is it that a military computer manages to set up a campaign to take over the world, if it doesn't have any industry, or even any significant robotic forces under its control.

Personally, I think tech-com is playing it all wrong. Ideally, the Tech-Com rebels simply stop Skynet from having the power to take over the world, rather than stopping AI development. It was an astonishing series of really stupid ideas that make Skynet dangerous, some of them so retarded that they make the Starfleet Computer security teams look like geniuses by comparison.

(Seriously, what the hell? NO manual overrides. Give it access to the internet. Give the computer access to every goddamned access code in the entire country. Give it the ability to mimic voices so it can send 'legit' orders to confused human troops. Give it control over the life support systems of every major underground facility, so it can easily take out the entire US leadership.)

Ideally, tech-com finds a way to defeat Skynet without killing it, by say, convincing the engineers involved to build a manual kill switch - this essentially ensures that no such AI will take over, as the risks of it happening are exposed, and as long as precautions are kept, then humanity is safe (for now)

Oh, and I think I know what Summer is playing...it could be a I-950, or some variant thereof.

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2008-01-23 09:40pm

Peptuck wrote:
Shrykull wrote:the second episode made me wonder exactly how 800 series terminators are made. When he's looking to get new organs for himself he only gets a heart, what about the rest?

I remember the trailer to terminator 2 on the total recall VHS tape. There was a special machine that closes over the skeleton and a few seconds later, all his organic systems are there. I figure it might be nearly impossible to go back to the way he used to be, he needs blood vessels as well, and nerves. Try to think about putting all those back correctly in the right order.

There's so much a "cyborg" if you can term it that would need. We see terminators from Cameron can eat, or pretend to at least. They would need a digestive system to make new cells, an immune system, a circulatory system, urinary system and if they lost too much blood all those systems would fall apart.

He mentions in Terminator 2 when Sarah is pulling the bullets out of his back that the bullet wounds will heal, which means he can make new cells, wouldn't this REQUIRE him to eat?
I wouldn't be surprised if they are capable of processing organic material to maintain their skin coating. I'm trying to remember where I read it (probably somewhere on Wikipedia) but there's supposed to be a deleted scene in T2 where the T800 says he has to eat to maintain his biological covering.

I think. Mileage and reality may vary.

I don't recall that scene, I remember I rented T2 and it wasn't one of them. I remember the one where they take the CPU out of his head.