NFL 08 Thread

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-01-19 12:43am

St. Louis' original NFL franchise, the Cardinals, had left for Arizona in 1988. After the city failed to land an expansion team, civic leaders built a $260 million, taxpayer-financed domed stadium anyway, in hopes of luring another team.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a totally fucked up demonstration of warped priorities? Does it really make sense to gouge the taxpayers for $260 million in the hopes of possibly luring an NFL team?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-01-19 12:48am

I'll take the Chargers and Giants. The prospect of seeing Peter King and the other hacks crying like little bitches when their mancrushes (Brady and Favre) lose is just too good to pass up.

Darth Quorthon · Post by **Darth Quorthon** » 2008-01-19 01:14am

Darth Wong wrote:
St. Louis' original NFL franchise, the Cardinals, had left for Arizona in 1988. After the city failed to land an expansion team, civic leaders built a $260 million, taxpayer-financed domed stadium anyway, in hopes of luring another team.
Am I the only one who thinks this is a totally fucked up demonstration of warped priorities? Does it really make sense to gouge the taxpayers for $260 million in the hopes of possibly luring an NFL team?

No, I don't think you're the only one, just like I wasn't the only one who was saying good riddance to the Rams when so many of us were convinced that Frontiere was running the franchise into the ground so that she could move it when she realized that she wasn't going to milk the public for the funds to build a new palace for her team to play in. The guy over at ruthless reviews wrote a pretty entertaining rant about it.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-01-19 01:21am

Elfdart wrote:I'll take the Chargers and Giants. The prospect of seeing Peter King and the other hacks crying like little bitches when their mancrushes (Brady and Favre) lose is just too good to pass up.

Shame!

I'd rather see the 72 Dolphins and She-li Manning cry like the little bitches they are.
Though it would be entertaining to see the 'Little Manning' bawl when the Patriots bitch slap him in the Super Bowl.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-19 01:26am

Darth Wong wrote:
St. Louis' original NFL franchise, the Cardinals, had left for Arizona in 1988. After the city failed to land an expansion team, civic leaders built a $260 million, taxpayer-financed domed stadium anyway, in hopes of luring another team.
Am I the only one who thinks this is a totally fucked up demonstration of warped priorities? Does it really make sense to gouge the taxpayers for $260 million in the hopes of possibly luring an NFL team?

Yeah, it's fucked up, but it's not like the city's population didn't have any say in it. They let themselves be gouged.

Look at SF right now. The 49ers have been trying to get a new stadium built since the late 80's, while they were in the midst of a 5 Super Bowl in 15 years run, and STILL don't have a new one, so they are moving to Santa Clara. St. Louis didn't HAVE to let it's leaders go through with the stadium build. They could have done what the SF citizens did and collectively voted or voiced "Fuck You".

On the other hand, after talking to some people that live in New Orleans about the Saints, I can see what having a team can do for the self esteem and morale of a city. So maybe $260 million isn't that bad of a price.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-19 01:28am

Elfdart wrote:I'll take the Chargers and Giants. The prospect of seeing Peter King and the other hacks crying like little bitches when their mancrushes (Brady and Favre) lose is just too good to pass up.

I thought you were better than that ED. You don't want to see two of the best QBs ever, square off in the SB?

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-01-19 01:33am

Yeah, it's fucked up, but it's not like the city's population didn't have any say in it. They let themselves be gouged.

Sometimes it's not that simple.
Here in Evansville, Indiana for example, we voted out a mayor who pushed a $20 million plan for a new downtown baseball stadium for a minor league team affiliated with the LA Dodgers.
The former Mayor (a Republican) even lost the heavily Republican First Ward because of the unpopularity of the plan.

His successor is now talking about pushing through a 'multi use' Downtown stadium despite what happened to the previous Mayor.

My point is that once the 'power elite' in an area get their hearts set on a boondoggle, its awfully hard for the citizenry at large to shoot it down.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-19 01:51am

Glocksman wrote:
Yeah, it's fucked up, but it's not like the city's population didn't have any say in it. They let themselves be gouged.
Sometimes it's not that simple.
Here in Evansville, Indiana for example, we voted out a mayor who pushed a $20 million plan for a new downtown baseball stadium for a minor league team affiliated with the LA Dodgers.
The former Mayor (a Republican) even lost the heavily Republican First Ward because of the unpopularity of the plan.

His successor is now talking about pushing through a 'multi use' Downtown stadium despite what happened to the previous Mayor.

My point is that once the 'power elite' in an area get their hearts set on a boondoggle, its awfully hard for the citizenry at large to shoot it down.

Which is why I pointed out SF's situation. Enough people were against a new stadium, or at least not supportive enough, that it actually made a difference, despite the "power elite" trying to get it done.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-01-19 09:14am

havokeff wrote:
Elfdart wrote:I'll take the Chargers and Giants. The prospect of seeing Peter King and the other hacks crying like little bitches when their mancrushes (Brady and Favre) lose is just too good to pass up.
I thought you were better than that ED. You don't want to see two of the best QBs ever, square off in the SB?

If that happens, then for the next two weeks you'll see nothing but their repressed fanwhores gushing all over them, like a multitude of neocons holding a wank-in at Victor Davis Hanson's while watching 300 and Top Gun with their pants around their ankles -only multiplied by thousands. Wouldn't it be better if Peter King and his ilk were so upset that they collectively fucked off in a fit of depression for the next two weeks? The only thing that would be half as good is if the Hall of Fame voters selected a class of only defensive players for a change.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-01-19 09:50am

Darth Wong wrote: Am I the only one who thinks this is a totally fucked up demonstration of warped priorities? Does it really make sense to gouge the taxpayers for $260 million in the hopes of possibly luring an NFL team?

Funny you should bring that up. Last night on Bill Moyers' Journal there was an interview with David Cay Johnston about his new book, Free Lunch. A number of corporations and billionaires owe their profits to welfare handouts:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01182008/profile.html

http://www.reason.com/news/show/124116.html

David Cay Johnston wrote:I tell in detail the story of a little merchant [Jim Weaknecht] with lower prices than his bigger competitors, like Cabela’s, in the business of selling fishing and outdoor gear, who was run out of business in his little town [of Hamburg, Pennsylvania] because of $32 million in subsidies [provided by local government] to Cabela’s. That’s $8,000 for every man, woman, and child in town, equal to the entire budget of the little town for a decade. Imagine that you are that competitor, with some big outside competitor getting a huge leg up, one that’s essentially worth doubling their profits as a practical matter, so they can run you out of business.

On the brighter side, I do tell a story about Gander Mountain [another big company in the hunting/camping/fishing business] that actually employs a lobbying firm to fight against & for [their competitors] Cabela’s and Bass Pro. Cabela’s was actually praised by Bush and Cheney as models of enterprise.

It’s not surprising Bush would praise a company like Cabela’s though. His own fortune, as I show from the public record and from interviewing his friends and from his own tax returns, derives from a subsidy that was derived from a tax increase! There’s an irony—George Bush got rich from a tax increase [a sales tax passed by voters in Arlington, Texas] that was funneled into his pocket inefficiently. The people who had to pay the tax got no benefit—most of them were not baseball fans—from this subsidy to build a stadium for the Texas Rangers [baseball team Bush owned].

You might think that companies that get subsidies would make bigger profits than normal. But Adam Smith told us that subsidies bring in brash adventurers who often end up making no profit, and the evidence is that Cabela’s doesn’t appear to be particularly profitable. Cabela’s in fact, in its first three years as a publicly traded company, had $223 million in profit, and subsidy deals worth $293 million. I argue that they are not in the business of selling sporting goods; they are in the business of reeling in subsidies. ;

Where's Daniel Shays when we need him?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-19 12:21pm

Elfdart wrote:
havokeff wrote:
Elfdart wrote:I'll take the Chargers and Giants. The prospect of seeing Peter King and the other hacks crying like little bitches when their mancrushes (Brady and Favre) lose is just too good to pass up.
I thought you were better than that ED. You don't want to see two of the best QBs ever, square off in the SB?
If that happens, then for the next two weeks you'll see nothing but their repressed fanwhores gushing all over them, like a multitude of neocons holding a wank-in at Victor Davis Hanson's while watching 300 and Top Gun with their pants around their ankles -only multiplied by thousands. Wouldn't it be better if Peter King and his ilk were so upset that they collectively fucked off in a fit of depression for the next two weeks? The only thing that would be half as good is if the Hall of Fame voters selected a class of only defensive players for a change.

Or you could just unglue yourself from Sports Center and NFL Network, like I do, between the Championships and the SB.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-01-20 05:31pm

The 4th is underway with the Patriots in front of the Chargers 14-12. Now it gets interesting.

Update:

NE scored as I was typing. 21-12 Patriots.

Update:

With the kneel-down it's all over. The 18-0 Patriots dispatch the Chargers, 21-12. Next!

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2008-01-20 06:04pm

Looks like the Patriots are going 19-0.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2008-01-20 06:16pm

Gimme a T!
T!
Gimme a D!
NO!

If only LT was in the game. The Patriots did play good redzone D I'll give them that. That's where the game was won and lost as there was really very few big plays. Jackson had the Chargrers big plays and Maroney, the Patriots, but it was won and lost in San Diego's 12 redzone points (all fieldgoals) and the Pats 3 TD's.

Oh well, go Packers, they got no shot but go them. Al Harris = overrated. Vincent Jackson ran all over his ass before T.O. did and Moss will too. What the Patriots really couldn't do against the Chargers they'll be able to do against the Giants and Green Bay: go deep and have those explosive plays. Everything else, their quick screens and gadget plays, well I think ONLY Baltimore has stopped that stuff all year long. Every other team either limited the Patriots options (taken away deep game) or just scored with them and the defense with the best turnover capability just got knocked off so that leaves it up to Favre and Manning to score with the Patriots.

I know who I'm picking in that scenario.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2008-01-20 06:18pm

One more, Pats! Let's go!

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2008-01-20 06:28pm

Fleet Admiral JD wrote:One more, Pats! Let's go!

You sicken me.

At least tell me you're from New England and not a bandwagoner.

Cause people not from Town A when they're the top dog (Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, Patriots, what have you) = lame. I went down with the home team, which even in a 1-15 season is more noble than bandwagoning.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2008-01-20 06:36pm

SPC Brungardt wrote:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote:One more, Pats! Let's go!
You sicken me. At least tell me you're from New England and not a bandwagoner.

Cause people not from Town A when they're the top dog (Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, Patriots, what have you) = lame. I went down with the home team, which even in a 1-15 season is more noble than bandwagoning.

A proud New Englander indeed, sir! Massachusetts, no less.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-01-20 06:37pm

SPC Brungardt wrote:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote:One more, Pats! Let's go!
You sicken me. At least tell me you're from New England and not a bandwagoner.

Cause people not from Town A when they're the top dog (Yankees, Lakers, Red Wings, Patriots, what have you) = lame. I went down with the home team, which even in a 1-15 season is more noble than bandwagoning.

I'm a Steelers fan foremost, a Colts fan after that, and a fan of any team that makes the 1972 Dolphins choke on their fucking champagne after that.

You should have seen the looks I got at the sports bar when I watched the Colts vs. Steelers game when Harbaugh's Hail Mary pass failed and I yelled out 'Fuck Yeah!'.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-01-20 07:24pm

Flash! Pam Oliver reporting that though the Packers' benches on the sideline are heated, the Giants' benches on the sideline are cold!

Update:

Beautiful 90-yard run by the Packers' Driver. 7-6 Green Bay.

Update:

Packers lead 10-6 at the half.

Note to Coughlin: Find a ski mask or something before your face freezes and falls off.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2008-01-20 10:14pm

The refs tried to give the game to Green Bay (non call on a 3rd down offsides sack of Manning and taking a touchdown run late from Bradshaw) but Green Bay really wanted to lose.

And so they did, in overtime on a drive that followed Favre's 2nd interception.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2008-01-20 10:15pm

Man, in 3 hours I've gone from being a Chargers fan, to a Packers fan, and now, I'm a Giants fan.

Anyone against the Pats.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-01-20 10:17pm

Bah. That mope Eli and his Giants won in overtime, after the kicker finally put one through the uprights after missing the 2 previous attempts. 23-20 Giants.

NomAnor15 · Post by **NomAnor15** » 2008-01-20 10:17pm

What's really depressing about it is that Tynes (sp?) missed the 43 and 36 yard goals, and hit the 47. Ah well, Packers had a decent run.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-01-20 10:19pm

NomAnor15 wrote:What's really depressing about it is that Tynes (sp?) missed the 43 and 36 yard goals, and hit the 47. Ah well, Packers had a decent run.

Yeah, and he was going to be looking for another ride home if he missed again.

NomAnor15 · Post by **NomAnor15** » 2008-01-20 10:22pm

No kidding. I thought it was pretty funny that the coach seemed to be yelling at him a lot the first time he missed, and couldn't even bring himself to do that the second time around.