More Traviss nonsense

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2008-01-20 04:01pm

Alexian Cale wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I personally find it "a no brainer" that Jacen killed Mara Jade; I'm surprised that no one on the Council suspects it.

Edit: I don't consider myself a Fett fanboy, but he is extremely badass, and I was hoping that he'd kick the shit out of Jacen (who might be my least favorite SW character).

While Fett's "dad" may have been able to hold his own against Obi Wan, who might I add was trying to capture him unharmed, a Dark Jedi or wannabe sith like Jacen would wipe the floor with Fett. A simple pinched nerve with TK and Fett goes down.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-01-20 05:35pm

I still love how many authors wank to Boba Fett. The self same character Lucas killed in such a pathetic manner. I agree here with Lucas...he's a phenom because people like the mysterious stranger, and nothing more.

Traviss' bits? Connor handled it far better. It's amazing how bad she's getting and really she's easily reaching Herbie and KJA's bullshit of mishandling. She has no grasp of how the real world works, let alone what a galactic army would look like.

Will Lucas really care? Nah. He never cared except what he does with the films, and demonstrated that consistently within the prequel. At the moment his baby is The Crystal Skull and as long as the toadies at the publication arm keep telling him "It's printing money!", it's all good.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-01-20 05:43pm

Jango's fight with Obi-Wan consisted of him throwing "card-up-my-sleeve" trick after trick. Without his gear or a bloody starfighter shooting at his opponent, Jango would have been taken down like any two-bit thug or simply drowned in Kamino's oceans.

Aside from Hard Contact, Traviss' works are just plain bad. Triple Zero was an uninteresting waste of paper consisting of over-emphasized objections to using clones to fight the war, and a terrorist threat consisting of maybe a half dozen lightly armed street thugs.

Not only was that idea not original (Krytos Trap has a pro-Imperial resistance group on Coruscant), but she decided repeat that crap-load with Bloodlines. Of course, the retardation of the main characters continues when no one can figure out Jacen killed Mara, and Mara's apparently too stupid to tell anyone her nephew's fallen to the Dark Side.

Oh right, and then there's the Mandalorians, that serve absolutely no purpouse to the overall plot and are never mentioned again.

Every one of her SW works glorifies Mandalorians in some ridiculous way, from that ridiculous "uber-Spartan chest-thumping" circle in TZ, to Ben's "I wish I was a Mandalorian child" nonsense, and conveniantly, virtually all her original female characters end up screwing a clone or two.

Although, to be honest, Lucas' final conceptualization of the Clone Wars was so badly bungled that even without Traviss, the whole thing is still a pile of crap.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2008-01-20 07:15pm

She's reminding me of Tom Cruise nuttery. If anyone has seen his scientology award acceptance speech, he military salutes the current leader of scientology when they both don't have any formal ranks. Just screams of someone trying to be important and distinguished and she's living her life through her character, she needs help. Has there been other examples of writers really going out of their way to add crap like this over online criticism? This isn't even a jab, it's her literally talking though her character and showing her inner thoughts are just as dumb as her arguments.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-01-20 07:41pm

No other author has really gotten this attached to a specific conflict or subject in Star Wars. One could accuse a few of creating Mary Stus (like Zahn with Thrawn or Stackpole with Corran), but nothing to this extent. A few authors post once in a while on TFN (Stover comes to mind, a few comic writers also), and if there ever are disagreements, I've never seen any of them lose it like Traviss did.

Traviss' entire Star Wars career revolves around Mandalorians, or Mandalorian clones. She has done literally nothing else.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-01-20 08:10pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Fuck the Mandalorians.

Boba Fett in TESB was a mere bit character, whose greatest accomplishment was following Han to Bespin. He didn't kick anyone's ass onscreen. And as mentioned already in this thread, his appearance in ROTJ was just embarrassing.

Though to be fair, Fett briefly comes across as pretty cool in two moments during TESB. The first is his introduction, where Vader sternly warns him about "no disintegrations," implying that he's a ruthless killer. The second is when he stands up to Vader and demands that he get to bring Han to Jabba.

That's it. Boba Fett's coolness was all talk, and all implied. Which is fine I guess, for minor fanboying. There was a guest hero on Justice League Unlimited called The Question who became the show's "breakout star" to the fans. Like Boba Fett, Question's coolness was built up purely on a few good lines and a menacing attitude. But you know what the difference with him is? None of the fans have deluded themselves into thinking that Question is this wanky godlike character, who could kick Superman or even Batman's ass.

But that's not the way Fett has been built up to be. Not only is he the best bounty hunter, not only is he cloned from a man who according to the comics can kill multiple lightsaber-wielding Jedi with his bare hands, but now he's this honorable moral character too! So awesome is Boba Fett that people will accept hack writers venerating him while simultaneously dumping on the Jedi, the TRUE focus of the actual SW movies.

Even ignoring her online feud with fans, Traviss has a rather...slanted view of what SW is. It really doesn't speak well of LFL when they allow someone like her to keep writing for them.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-01-20 08:23pm

Wait...Jango Fett killed lightsaber-armed Jedi with his bare hands?

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-01-20 08:38pm

Once you get past the fact that he should had died in ROTJ, Boba's whole "new awesome leader of Mandalore" thing actually isn't too bad in concept once you look at AOTC and ROTS. I mean, he's the favorite son of Jango Fett and everything, so maybe he stops being a bounty hunter and changes into a political warrior leader- if done correctly, that's got to be at least worth an interesting plotline or two. However, I can only assume that the authors totally fucked it up in real life by wanking out the way he does it.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2008-01-20 08:55pm

What 'new awesome leader of Mandalore' thing? Have you actually READ the EU? Mandalore's gone. Has been for eternities. All the EU does is wanking Boba Fett as the meanest toughest badassiest Bounty Hunter that ever was.
When in RotJ he was beaten by a fledgeling Jedi and a blind smuggler.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-01-20 08:55pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Wait...Jango Fett killed lightsaber-armed Jedi with his bare hands?

I didn't read the comic myself, but I read about it from this thread. Supposedly, the comic depicted the Jedi in a battle with the Mandalorians, and Jango only had his hands and some wrist blades. The writers bullshit their way out of things by not showing the actual fight, only small glimpses of Jango breaking Jedi necks. when the dust clears, Jango is the sole survivor on the Mandalorian side but had killed multiple Jedi.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-01-20 09:01pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:However, I can only assume that the authors totally fucked it up in real life by wanking out the way he does it.

Authors? Traviss is the only one who has even used the Mandalorian plotline!

Batman wrote:What 'new awesome leader of Mandalore' thing? Have you actually READ the EU? Mandalore's gone. Has been for eternities. All the EU does is wanking Boba Fett as the meanest toughest badassiest Bounty Hunter that ever was.
When in RotJ he was beaten by a fledgeling Jedi and a blind smuggler.

Then explain the planet full of Mandalorians (and by "full of," I mean a world devastated by the Yuuzhan Vong with only a couple hundred thousand settlers still remaining) in Bloodlines and Sacrifice. It's been around since the Marvel comic era, too.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalore_%28planet%29

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2008-01-20 09:07pm

Jim Raynor wrote:I didn't read the comic myself, but I read about it from this thread. Supposedly, the comic depicted the Jedi in a battle with the Mandalorians, and Jango only had his hands and some wrist blades. The writers bullshit their way out of things by not showing the actual fight, only small glimpses of Jango breaking Jedi necks. when the dust clears, Jango is the sole survivor on the Mandalorian side but had killed multiple Jedi.

Yet canonically, we see Jango bare handed against Mace Windu, who had all the flair of a street thug with a tire iron, decapitate him.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2008-01-20 09:08pm

And what's this about a clone being refused medical treatment?

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-01-20 09:10pm

Lord Poe wrote:And what's this about a clone being refused medical treatment?

A Clone Commando was declared braindead, and living off of life support.
The civillian medical team wanted to pull the plug, to make room for other patients, but the mando whore treasury agent said no, because manalorians are bad-ass enough to re-start their own brains and shit.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2008-01-20 09:17pm

Darksider wrote:A Clone Commando was declared braindead, and living off of life support.
The civillian medical team wanted to pull the plug, to make room for other patients, but the mando whore treasury agent said no, because manalorians are bad-ass enough to re-start their own brains and shit.

LOL!!!!! Jeezus Zombified Christ....

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-01-20 09:24pm

Lord Poe wrote:
LOL!!!!! Jeezus Zombified Christ....

Worse yet, he somehow does. I'm not too sure on the specifics of it, because I can't bare to read traviss' style of "every other word in mandalorian" shitty writing, but at the end of the book he wakes up and ends up a semi-functional drooling idiot.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-01-20 09:59pm

Batman wrote:What 'new awesome leader of Mandalore' thing? Have you actually READ the EU? Mandalore's gone. Has been for eternities. All the EU does is wanking Boba Fett as the meanest toughest badassiest Bounty Hunter that ever was.

Please, if I didn't even read the NJO (not to mention even Zahn's books), why would I bother with LOTF? But apparently in it Boba Fett becomes the leader of his people, or a faction of them, as opposed to being a mere superantihero bounty hunter, so the point still stands.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2008-01-20 10:46pm

Well the Mandalore title has continued past KOTOR II, the next known Mandalore was Ung Kusp who had training master Jaing (which is the stem of Durge's hatred of Mandalorians), after that there was some unnamed Mandalore that was killed by Durge and some rogue Jedi in retalliation for the genocide of the Ithullans, then we come to Jaster Mereel who lead the Mandalorian Supercommandos in a Civil war against the Death Watch and his title went to his heir apparent and foster child, Jango Fett.

After Jango we have three Mandalore's, the first is Alpha-Ø2, a rogue clone who lead the Mandalorian Protector's against the Republic during the Clone Wars. After that is Fenn Shysa, who lead the remaining Protector's against the Empire to liberate Mandalore, with the help of the Rebellion. I assume he died somehow and seeing as Boba was pretty much the last unquestioned Mandalore's 'son', and the title of Mandalore is supposed to go to the one who rightfully claims the previous Mandalore's helmet, he'd be the true Mandalore.

Mandalore is a title, not a guy, Bruce. As we all know Canderous Ordo from KOTOR became the Mandalore of KOTOR II, and there were numerous other Mandalore's before and after him.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2008-01-21 12:01am

Darksider wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:
LOL!!!!! Jeezus Zombified Christ....

Worse yet, he somehow does. I'm not too sure on the specifics of it, because I can't bare to read traviss' style of "every other word in mandalorian" shitty writing, but at the end of the book he wakes up and ends up a mandalorian.

Fixed your post.

General Soontir Fel · Post by **General Soontir Fel** » 2008-01-21 01:48am

I have to agree with what others said: it should have been obvious that Jacen killed Mara, and it took a lot of stupidity on all the characters' parts to make the concealment "work", not least on that of Mara herself, with her misleading final note. However, my point was that it should have been obvious to those who at least knew these people. Fett never met Mara or Jacen, and yet he just knows.

Darksider wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:
LOL!!!!! Jeezus Zombified Christ....

Worse yet, he somehow does. I'm not too sure on the specifics of it, because I can't bare to read traviss' style of "every other word in mandalorian" shitty writing, but at the end of the book he wakes up and ends up a semi-functional drooling idiot.

That actually is the least of all problems, since he was healed by a JEDI. Yes, one of KT's Mandalorian-worshipping Jedi, but a Jedi. If it wasn't for the Force, he would have likely remained brain-dead.

And in the end of the novel, a romantic relationship began with that clone and a Mandalorian girl.

There's one step the whole series can take towards redemption, concerning the clone who impregnated one of KT's pet Jedi. It won't happen, but I can dream: they're together, enjoying a "family moment" with their son, when Darman (the clone) gets Order 66, and he blows his Jedi wife's brain out. That would be a minor satisfaction.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2008-01-21 02:31am

That's one thing I don't understand about how she portrays Mandalorians.

The way she tells it, family is very important to Mandalorians, yet the only time we see any mention or care about family is in Canderous Ordo, and that was only in the sense of the Mandalorian Clans, as in bringing honour to your clan, rather than the 'Family Values' shit she wants. Then how can she reconcile that 'Family Values' facet with the fact that the most apparently prestigious position in Mandalorian Society is to be some sort of uber mercenary that will spend the majority of his life half way across the galaxy from his family and may spend only enough time at home to knock up his wife again and then go to the next job.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2008-01-21 02:46am

that will spend the majority of his life half way across the galaxy from his family and may spend only enough time at home to knock up his wife again and then go to the next job.

You've described half of America rather succinctly.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2008-01-21 03:04am

OK, so we've established once again that KT is a moron who couldn't write a descent story if her life depended on it. Sooner or later, threads about her will likely get the same treatment as Jack Chick threads.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2008-01-21 05:53am

Revan's Fire wrote:I think my biggest problem with all things Traviss related is her belief that if it sounds big to her, it's big to everyone. 3 million clones? That's a million! It'd take me a long time to count that high, therefore, it's obviously applicable in this situation that requires big numbers! Her attempts to sell herself as a 'military journalist' make this pure base dishonesty even more nauseating.

Does she realize that the Soviet Front-Armies attacking Berlin in 1945 had 2.5 million men in them? That the average daily number of shells fired by allied troops on the western front in WW1 during 1918 was almost 500,000? That at the Battle of Berlin, also, 1st Guards Tank Army concentrated 650 artillery pieces per every kilometre of front for their breakthrough attack across the Teltow Canal? And that wasn't counting the katyushas.

Three million troops would have been ground up to bits in less than a year of fighting on the Ostfront in WW2 or the Western Front in WW1. And those were conflicts fought when most of the world wasn't even industrialized. Frankly if she wasn't an official author I'd say she ought just be laughed at and ignored. As it stands, the levels of ignorance are, as usual, despicable, and we'll leave it at that, I suppose.

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-01-21 06:26am

The fight where Jango Fett kills Jedi with his "bare hands" doesn't exactly go down like it is touted by Fandalorians.

Firstly, there's only twenty Jedi fighting in the battle against vastly more Mandalorians. Secondly, its a cobbled-together force - none of the Jedi were selected for their combat prowess, they were merely the ones hanging around Galidraan. 11 Jedi, but the Mandalorians are wiped out and utterly humiliated.

Lastly, Jango may kill a few Jedi on his own but, Komari Vosa, a padawan who was later kicked out of the order for not coming up to scratch kills twenty Mandalorians by herself!

Note also that the Republic force was mostly Judicials, including those two we saw at the start of TPM.