STGOD 2k8 Planning thread

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-20 11:53pm

Academia, at the tech level we are dealing with every ship, down to the smallest 1 pointer, is armed with multiple weapons with firepower in the kiloton. Since warships are going to keep important objects like reloads for their weapons in multiple locations, probably deep in the hull, it makes it difficult to destroy them without critically damaging the very ships that are carrying them. You want to take these ships with minimal damage, but that is a problem, isn't it? The less damage you do, the more capability the ship has. Things like bridges and weapons storage are not going to be hanging outside the hull where they can be picked off at your leisure. range and up. Moreover, what are the rules for teleportation here? Historically, STGODs have gone by Star Trek Rules: teleporters are risky devices which are jammed by anything from shields to thick bulkheads.

I guess my real point is that you posted the entire attack in a 1-post smash and grab, not giving my crews any chance to react. Just because you have a numerical advantage doesn't mean that you can engage in an incredibly complex and difficult mission against an enemy warship without them having any means of defense or retaliation- in this case, self-destruction as soon as they are boarded. Now, the situation might be different in the aftermath of a space-battle; where there would be hulled ships who have taken major damage, have no surviving central control, which could be plundered for captives and intelligence. However, you made your intentions clear and tried your best to minimize damage to the vessels, leaving their command and control more or less intact. I met you half-way by giving you a hulk which probably has surviving crew on it.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-20 11:58pm

Disclaimer: I'm going to be making up reasonable rules as I go while editing the Wiki. I will post here when I'm finished, and list the sections where changes were made.

This is just to speed things up so we have functioning rules for the early game. As we tweak, the new rules will come into effect, but NOT retroactively.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-21 12:13am

Okay, okay, I see your point, but you'll note that I basically ripped out your engineering sections, and I know that the top three armoured sections are the the bridge, engineering, and the missile stores. I exposed one of those categories to space. Let's also look at the special equipment I had available:

The two Dragons have 3 points of C3 and 2 points of O each. O allows you to cut through interference effortlessly by the rules, so one can presume in universe these are highly advanced precision weapons. C3 lets you see ships hundreds to thousands of light years away and identify their make and model presuming they don't have stealth or jamming active. Against ships that have been smashed and their reactors, the primary emitter in this sort of situation, damaged to the point of shut-down. I think when I have you at my mercy I should be able to:

a) identify and neutralize any device that might be used for scuttling, something I was trying to get across but I will concede that I rushed things a bit

and/or

b) do some precision teleports against helpless, mostly dead ships.

Plus, I was going to let you respond to my post. I never said how successful my boarders were, although I did clearly have the advantage. I was expecting you to try and scuttle things, I didn't expect you to go "Denied!" and have them all blow at once. As my captain pointed out, how did you scuttle them all like that? You could have easily had the commanders fight their way through the ship to the weapon's lockers so as to activate the scuttling charges and blow everything. You could have easily put up a resistance and chided me for trying to one shot you, and I would have sheepishly agreed that I was being a snatch and grab ass and let you fight it out. You're mad at me for just going "I win!" and I'm mad at you for doing the same.

Is that all a bit more clear now? Can we come to a less asshat compromise on both sides? The first compromise I'll gladly give is that I was probably a bit overgreedy with the number captured, but then again I think I may have overestimated your bridge crew sizes so I figured I probably got less than twenty all together. I can edit things to say that they only got the captain.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-21 12:49am

OK, done editing for now.

Changes(see the history in the wiki for more details):

Added battle mechanics, including retreating and speed
Updated Repair rules
Updated Improved Logistics
Updated Improved Salvage
Added Realspace Engines
Updated Improved Offensives
Updated System Defenses *big change*
Fixed a lot of typos

Further projects: figuring out just how C3 and S interact, as well as just how I and H interact.

On the current issue... Let's set a good precedent in resolving this, guys. Wouldn't it be nice to come to an agreement without moderator ruling, for the betterment of the story?

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-21 01:01am

I'm willing to see Thirdfain's response before I call for a mod action, I was merely pointing out that if a mod felt the need to step in at any time I would not protest the decisions made as it was somewhat contentious. Now that I have stated my case, I will wait to see what the other side has to say. I'm sure we can resolve this in a friendly manner. I freely admit that I was being a bit of a dick and am willing to make compromises.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-21 01:04am

How's this- the ships went up before the shuttles got close; your crews are alive and well. Also, the patrol picket was broken up, not destroyed, and has surviving crewmembers, including engineers and officers- not as important as the patrol leader, but something. Fair?

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-21 09:25am

Done. And I apologize again for jumping the gun there.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-21 09:26am

No worries, the resolution was civilized and painless, so thank you.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-21 09:28am

Civilized and painless... unlike what is about to happen in game, no?

Ball's in your court now man. I await your next move.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-21 11:23am

Shinn, you should probably be let know that one of my tactical cruisers with C3 is amongst the body of my task force; they're going to see your unit coming on long-range scanners but not be able to scan them down, if I read the rules right.

I apologize if it seems tedious to go straight this thread, but I don't want to do anything right off that would result in debate.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-21 12:01pm

Quick question about builds- it was my impression that each power gets 1500 points to spend on ships, +200 if aggressor. Yet, many players seem to have 2000 points in ships, plus aggressors. What is the truth of the matter?

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-21 12:10pm

you get 2000 points base, + an additional 200 if you're an aggressor

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-21 12:22pm

Does that include the 500 points for racials, or not?

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-21 12:33pm

Read the rules wiki, that's what it's there for!

You get 2000 industry points, 500 racial points, and 100 planet points.

Also, another thing: why don't we use the quick reference thread to keep track of losses (and production, eventually)?

Everyone gets one post in there, to keep track of how many ships they lost, a killboard, status of damaged ships, etc. When we get into planetary invasion, you can also keep track of your invaded planets, partial production, etc.

Also, what do you guys think of this: every turn, in addition to 1000 production points, each nation gets 50 racial points, or the opportunity to reallocate 100 racial points? This would allow nations to develop and change over time, according to the threats currently facing them.

Shinn Langley Soryu · Post by **Shinn Langley Soryu** » 2008-01-21 02:43pm

Tanasinn wrote:Shinn, you should probably be let know that one of my tactical cruisers with C3 is amongst the body of my task force; they're going to see your unit coming on long-range scanners but not be able to scan them down, if I read the rules right.

I apologize if it seems tedious to go straight this thread, but I don't want to do anything right off that would result in debate.

That would mean that you've got a 150-class "Albatross" tucked in there where Fleet Admiral Ito can't see. Even then, with only +2 to C3, it can't penetrate the net +4 to D that my advance scouts possess; the 150 will indeed see them coming, but it can't get specific details on fleet composition and such.

Either way, it's your turn on stage.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-01-21 03:17pm

I just wanted to say, I've been hesitant to much of anything, what with all my nearby neighbors (and there are THREE of us packed ultraclose together) being idle, but not idle on the board. This makes them like little landmines. If I send my fleets to go attack someone idle... what happens? If I send them to attakc someone awake though, the idlers could wake up and then gut me. I don't want that to happen!

So what do people think should be the etiquette here? I want to be an aggressor, but I don't think I can aggress on a sleeping foe.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-21 03:33pm

Hmmm... I would suggest that the etiquette should be that you shouldn't attack "sleeping" groups, but if someone wants to come back into the game they should have to give maybe half a turn to a full turn warning to their neighbours so that they can pull back their fleets if necessary to protect their now exposed flanks. I say half a turn at minimum because even if your ships are all on the other side of the map they should be able to make it back to base in about that time.

As to Hawkwing's proposal, I suppose perhaps a small increase in racials each turn might be interesting, that or we come up with some conversion factor to turn industrial points into racials (I would suggest maybe a ten to one factor) so that after the start you can build ships or improve your capacities.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-21 03:44pm

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:
Tanasinn wrote:Shinn, you should probably be let know that one of my tactical cruisers with C3 is amongst the body of my task force; they're going to see your unit coming on long-range scanners but not be able to scan them down, if I read the rules right.

I apologize if it seems tedious to go straight this thread, but I don't want to do anything right off that would result in debate.
That would mean that you've got a 150-class "Albatross" tucked in there where Fleet Admiral Ito can't see. Even then, with only +2 to C3, it can't penetrate the net +4 to D that my advance scouts possess; the 150 will indeed see them coming, but it can't get specific details on fleet composition and such.

Either way, it's your turn on stage.

The 150 is stuck in with the main body of the task force: I assume that if you can override the +D of the main task force (+7), that your Fleet Admiral would notice its presence.

I was aware of the fact that specific information on your forces would not be available, but I'll take what I can get.

Anyway, my reply will be up later tonight: I've got college crap (notes, etc) to deal with first.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-21 06:07pm

I'll post the little envoy group reaching out to your mighty fleet of evil; I would ahve done so in that post but it just wouldn't have fit the pacing.

A-Wing_Slash · Post by **A-Wing_Slash** » 2008-01-21 06:36pm

Sorry I've been silent, my life has been fairly busy recently. I am, however, still playing, and will probably be able to get fully into the swing of things in a few days or so. I did add a bit to my OOB though, and I'll be adding more in little bits and pieces.

One question - How fast is communication? How long would it take for my government to become aware of the events in Syndacalist or Union space?

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-21 11:20pm

Covenant: there's a small fleet of my ships headed in your general direction that you can interact with.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2008-01-21 11:20pm

Okay, I'm jumping in. I'll get the number-crunching done tomorrow on my day off.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-22 01:44am

OK, quick thing about speed:

Currently, it reads that speed is only determined by base weight plus the R attribute. However, this means that a 1+10O+10D+10H+10S+9C3 behemoth is faster than a 2-pt patrol ship. That doesn't seem right to me.

How about this? Speed is base weight plus half of all special features on the ship.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-01-22 01:48am

While any student of history can tell you exactly what I'm using for precendent here, I don't think that will necessarily help in this situation.

This is going to be fun. I trust that no matter what happens there will be some sort of diplomatic incident. Technically seeing as I already blew up three of your ships for very little reason you could easily declare war on me and be considered in the right, but then again you have no idea what happened and will have to take my story or none at all, no?

As for Hawkwings, I think "total weight - specialty" was meant for H and S, so you would actually be making them more effective. Your way sounds cool too though.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-01-22 02:46am

Hawkwings wrote:Covenant: there's a small fleet of my ships headed in your general direction that you can interact with.

I made a small post about the forces I'm dispatching. I'm going to make MOSTLY smaller posts this time around, though the vagueness and shortness of the posts is mostly just a lead-up. I'm not quite ready yet to create ghost-characters or named ships or such. In my typical fashion, they're all done up to be scary and ominous, but the individual characters will chatter to each other in more-or-less normal fashion, and only be creepywierd to outsiders. But I just needn't have banter YET. They haven't even really become aware of many outside nationstates.