Abu Dhabi invests $15bn in hydrogen & renewables

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-01-21 11:55am

BBC wrote:The government of Abu Dhabi has announced a $15bn (£7.5bn) initiative to develop clean energy technologies.

The Gulf state describes the five-year initiative as "the most ambitious sustainability project ever launched by a government".

Components will include the world's largest hydrogen power plant.

The government has also announced plans for a "sustainable city", housing about 50,000 people, that will produce no greenhouse gases and contain no cars.

The $15bn fund, which the state hopes will lead to international joint ventures involving much more money, is being channelled through the Masdar Initiative, a company established to develop and commercialise clean energy technologies.

"As global demand for energy continues to expand, and as climate change becomes a real and growing concern, the time has come to look to the future," said Masdar CEO Dr Sultan Al Jaber.

"Our ability to adapt and respond to these realities will ensure that Abu Dhabi's global energy leadership as well as our own growth and development continues."

Technology bridge

The portfolio of technologies eligible for funding under the Masdar Initiative is extensive, but solar energy is likely to be a major beneficiary.

The hydrogen plant, meanwhile, will link the world's currently dominant technology, fossil fuel burning, with two technologies likely to be important in a low-carbon future - carbon sequestration and hydrogen manufacture.

Hydrogen will be manufactured from natural gas by reactions involving steam, producing a mixture of hydrogen and carbon dioxide.

The CO2 can be pumped underground, either simply to store it away permanently or as a way of extracting more oil from existing wells, using the high-pressure gas to force more of the black gold to the surface.

When hydrogen is burned, it produces no CO2. Eventually hydrogen made this way could be used in vehicles, though in Abu Dhabi it will generate electricity.

"It's important because it shows that you can generate hydrogen without carbon release from fossil fuels," commented Keith Guy, an engineering consultant and professor at the UK's Bath University.

"When you look at how hydrogen could be made economically, the route that many people have been looking at, through electrolysis of water, is incredibly expensive."

The Masdar Sustainable City, another component of the Abu Dhabi government's plans which is being designed with input from the environmental group WWF, is envisaged as a self-contained car-free zone where all energy will come from renewable resources, principally solar panels to generate electricity.

Buildings will be constructed to allow air in but keep the Sun's heat out. Wind towers will ventilate homes and offices using natural convection.

The fund and the Masdar City plans were formally unveiled at the World Future Energy Summit in Abu Dhabi.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-01-21 12:33pm

I don't know about you other westerners, but this makes me feel incredibly ashamed (Even if my country doesn't have billions in cash flowing around).

Still, Dubai is the country that's furthest ahead (by light-years) at getting a non oil based economy.

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2008-01-21 12:39pm

DEATH wrote:I don't know about you other westerners, but this makes me feel incredibly ashamed (Even if my country doesn't have billions in cash flowing around).

Still, Dubai is the country that's furthest ahead (by light-years) at getting a non oil based economy.

Hydrogen will be manufactured from natural gas by reactions involving steam, producing a mixture of hydrogen and carbon dioxide.

They'll still be using fossil fuels though to produce their hydrogen.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2008-01-21 01:14pm

Really don't understand this, that 15 billion could do wonders for commercial fusion research. Does the rest of the world have the nuclear = bad stigma too?

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2008-01-21 03:05pm

Meest wrote:Really don't understand this, that 15 billion could do wonders for commercial fusion research. Does the rest of the world have the nuclear = bad stigma too?

Probably because renewable = cool these days.

Wouldn't using the natural gas to produce hydrogen just be a waste of money? Doesn't seem like hydrogen fuel cells are wide spread enough for it to make economic sense.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-01-21 03:15pm

DEATH wrote:Still, Dubai is the country that's furthest ahead (by light-years) at getting a non oil based economy.

Not really, their energy is still mostly provided by petroleum and natural gas. Though they are trying to move past that, the French will be helping them build a nuclear power station in the near future.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-01-21 03:21pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:
DEATH wrote:Still, Dubai is the country that's furthest ahead (by light-years) at getting a non oil based economy.
Not really, their energy is still mostly provided by petroleum and natural gas. Though they are trying to move past that, the French will be helping them build a nuclear power station in the near future.

Sorry, that should be "furthest ahead (by light-years) at getting a non oil based economy" Compared to every other country in the ME. (Not counting Israel

).

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-01-21 04:23pm

What a bunch of morons. Hydrogen my ass. Where will the POWER to make it come from you inbred retarded morons?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-01-21 05:24pm

MKSheppard wrote:What a bunch of morons. Hydrogen my ass. Where will the POWER to make it come from you inbred retarded morons?

It's almost humorous how even national cabinets don't seem to grasp the hydrogen = energy storage medium, not energy source concept.

If they can't with their consultants on six figure salaries, then what chance does Joe Sixpack who's always expecting a fuel-cell car or bio-fuel truck to replace what he has now?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-01-21 05:49pm

Its not really hydrogen fuel if the requisite and unsubstitutable feedstock is natural gas.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-01-21 06:36pm

I completely understand how hydrogen is merely a method of making a portable energy source...but surely we have the technology to utilize renewable energy sources to produce it in sufficient quantities if humanity got off it's ass and got serious about the issue?

Sources like solar power, wind power, ocean power (waves and tides), geothermal power, hydro-electric dams and probably several others I missed or don't know about.

Toss in other sources like nuclear power which currently has enough existing material to sustain humanity for quite some time to come, and I don't see a crisis per say, I see human stupidity, laziness and lack of future thinking.

Unless I'm missing something. I know it would be an enormous and extensive effort on our part, but surely it could be done realistically?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2008-01-21 06:51pm

Bubble Boy wrote:I completely understand how hydrogen is merely a method of making a portable energy source...but surely we have the technology to utilize renewable energy sources to produce it in sufficient quantities if humanity got off it's ass and got serious about the issue?

Sources like solar power, wind power, ocean power (waves and tides), geothermal power, hydro-electric dams and probably several others I missed or don't know about.

Toss in other sources like nuclear power which currently has enough existing material to sustain humanity for quite some time to come, and I don't see a crisis per say, I see human stupidity, laziness and lack of future thinking.

Unless I'm missing something. I know it would be an enormous and extensive effort on our part, but surely it could be done realistically?

Its just producing the energy, its distributing and USING it at the same time. You have to switch over a rather bloody large technology base from oil and gas to hydrogen, THAT is what is going to be the nightmare. Not to mention scaling up these facilities to something that can replace the petroleum economy. THAT is going to take a tad more then 15 billion and a pilot plant or two.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2008-01-21 06:53pm

Bubble Boy wrote:I completely understand how hydrogen is merely a method of making a portable energy source...but surely we have the technology to utilize renewable energy sources to produce it in sufficient quantities if humanity got off it's ass and got serious about the issue?

Well, just to give you an example of the problem we face. If we wanted to replace all the gasoline that's burned by cars in the US, we'll need to build around 500 nuclear power plants to generate the electricity for making the hydrogen. There are currently 100 or so nuke plants in the US. Then you gotta build the pipelines, the storage tanks, distribution hubs, gas stations, and all the supporting industry to build and support that infrastructure. Plus you gotta somehow educate & train all the people needed to run this industry. It ain't gonna happen overnight no matter how much money is thrown at the problem, it's going to be the work of generations and many trillions of dollars. And that's just for cars.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-01-21 07:00pm

Chris OFarrell wrote: Its just producing the energy, its distributing and USING it at the same time. You have to switch over a rather bloody large technology base from oil and gas to hydrogen, THAT is what is going to be the nightmare. Not to mention scaling up these facilities to something that can replace the petroleum economy. THAT is going to take a tad more then 15 billion and a pilot plant or two.

Umm, building a hydrogen disruption system would be expensive as hell, estimated at 300 billion for the US alone, but actually converting stuff over to use hydrogen as fuel is pretty absurdly simple. Any existing car for example can be converted simply by replacing the carberuator with a hydrogen fuel injector, or replacing the existing fuel injectors with hydrogen injectors. In fact the fuel system actually becomes simpler because you don’t need a fuel pump. The tanks, piping and injectors would cost a few hundred dollars.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-01-21 07:03pm

That figures.

So in other words, even if humanity got 100% (or any particular country) behind turning the situation around into some hydrogen dependent infrastructure, so much time and effort has been invested into oil infrastructure that the necessary time table for implementation far exceeeds the apparent time table we have available.

That being the case, humanity gets what it deserves for such short sightness and stupidity.

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2008-01-21 07:34pm

Even if the hydrogen from natural gas plan isn't a solution, the plan involving a city with no cars should at least help somewhat. Too bad it's only for a city of 50,000, which is about 1% of the whole country and 3% of the specific emirate.

And as an aside, the country's name is not Dubai any more than the name of the country just south of Canada is New York. It's the United Arab Emirates. Just a pet peeve of mine.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2008-01-22 03:09pm

Generating hydrogen is not a problem for Dubai. They have enough camels driven by kidnapped children. All they need is a hamster wheel connected to a generator.

Seriously they could try solar. Sunlight is almost as plentiful in the desert as oil. Although considering how expensive solar is Emirates people will have to cut down their extravagant lifestyle.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2008-01-22 04:38pm

Or they could mess around with tidal energy (I've heard that it's hell on maintenance though)

With all that desert, wind could be a supplementary source of sorts.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2008-01-22 05:06pm

Emirates citizens are a highly pampered class. I don't think their current lifestyle will be sustainable in the future. The thing is whatever they ultimately decide on they have to cut down on energy use first. Block after block of air conditioned skycrapers lit up like Manhatten can't be good. Add to this hordes of latest fatass gas guzzling cars it becomes clear a lifestyle change is in order.