STGOD 2k8 Planning thread

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-22 03:07am

Actually, that's Murray Rothbard, founder of 20th century Anarcho-Capitalism, but damned if the guy doesn't fit the part.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-22 09:52am

Uh, Shinn, you kinda took my tactical and role-playing decisions away from me entirely there. I've got no real objection to your main fleet arriving on-site quickly (though I was gambling they were farther out), but I did have a couple of other ideas that I planned to implement.

For one, the 150-class (being a light, tactical ship) wasn't going to hop danger-close: what I've figured would be a typical tactic would be to hop it within "short" distances that kept it just outside of battles and then jump in only if C3 or interdiction (the ship's specialties) were needed: that sort of thing would keep them safe from unnecessary risk but also immediately on-call if a main force needs them.

Second, it seems obvious to me that the main body of my task force are going to show up with systems/weapons on-line, ready for combat, though they obviously have the disadvantage of coming out of warp and having to orient themselves against what ships are already present. The Vice Admiral, after all, is currently thinking of this encounter as bait-and-kill trap, not a neutral encounter.

Third, how does your entire task force arrive before mine does? Logically, my task force is responding to your small attack force, which puts them a step behind and leaves the Radiant Dawn and Sentinel alone for a moment. Your main task force is responding to my main task force's maneuver, however, which would seemingly put them a step behind. (When I said that my forces should arrive right after yours, I was referring to the ships you initially sent to clean up my cruiser and destroyer.)

I'm not expecting to "win" this encounter, but I would like to actually use my ships before they're wiped from the stars.

Shinn Langley Soryu · Post by **Shinn Langley Soryu** » 2008-01-22 04:05pm

Tanasinn wrote:Uh, Shinn, you kinda took my tactical and role-playing decisions away from me entirely there. I've got no real objection to your main fleet arriving on-site quickly (though I was gambling they were farther out), but I did have a couple of other ideas that I planned to implement.

For one, the 150-class (being a light, tactical ship) wasn't going to hop danger-close: what I've figured would be a typical tactic would be to hop it within "short" distances that kept it just outside of battles and then jump in only if C3 or interdiction (the ship's specialties) were needed: that sort of thing would keep them safe from unnecessary risk but also immediately on-call if a main force needs them.

Second, it seems obvious to me that the main body of my task force are going to show up with systems/weapons on-line, ready for combat, though they obviously have the disadvantage of coming out of warp and having to orient themselves against what ships are already present. The Vice Admiral, after all, is currently thinking of this encounter as bait-and-kill trap, not a neutral encounter.

Third, how does your entire task force arrive before mine does? Logically, my task force is responding to your small attack force, which puts them a step behind and leaves the Radiant Dawn and Sentinel alone for a moment. Your main task force is responding to my main task force's maneuver, however, which would seemingly put them a step behind. (When I said that my forces should arrive right after yours, I was referring to the ships you initially sent to clean up my cruiser and destroyer.)

I'm not expecting to "win" this encounter, but I would like to actually use my ships before they're wiped from the stars.

*gonk*

A combination of sleep deprivation, misinterpreting the entry in the TGOD Handbook on interdiction fields, and typing up a post at 0100 PST can do that to me. I'll go back and amend it as needed.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2008-01-22 05:04pm

Okay, I have a question regarding the rules for system defenses:

You purchase system defenses with racial points, and they act as "free" ships. The defender may use these ships only during defensive actions. The ship's stats are 1+1X, where X is O, D, or C3. 100 pts buys 1 of these ships per planet point in that system. So a system with 25 pts of planets would get 25 of these ships.

By the wording, the number of ships bought with X points is dependent on the value of the planets in-system rather than the points spent. So if you have a system with a single 10 point planet in it and buy system defenses you get 10 ships for an expenditure of 100 points, but if you spend the hundred points on a different system that has a 10 point primary planet, a 5 point colony, a 3 point colony on a gas giant's moon, and four 1 point asteroid mines, the same 100 points would get you 22 of the same system defense ships. Is this intentional?

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-01-22 05:07pm

I read it that way too. It seemed ridiculous, but I figured someone else would fix it before now. I think it should apply per system, regardless of the number of planets.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2008-01-22 05:13pm

Well, finishing my Order of Battle is hinging on this at the moment, so clearing it up would be appreciated. If that's the way it works, then fine; I'll just concentrate my planet points in fewer systems.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-22 05:27pm

Yeah, that's what the rules are right now. If you have objections, please voice them and offer an alternative.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-22 05:30pm

Unholy Alliance

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2008-01-22 05:34pm

Hawkwings wrote:Yeah, that's what the rules are right now. If you have objections, please voice them and offer an alternative.

You mean the objections aren't obvious? Why should 100 points spent for defenses be worth more or less based on a totally independent value? If you buy, say, Improved Shipyards with those points, then the value of the shipyards doesn't go up or down depending on the value of the planets in the system the shipyards are in.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-22 05:46pm

My god, Shin, your Dramatis Personae just gave me diabetes.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-22 05:49pm

These orbital defenses have been an issue of a lot of grief. First there was the munchkin-y "Let's have all one-point planets, and get +25O per system!". And what was more, those D points were untargetable and non-specific, making every fleet in system able to take advantage of them seperately. Can you imagine facing 10 fleets of one 10-point ship each, all with 25 points of screening that you can't get rid of?

So that was obviously out. This current rule was meant to address those problems. First, it's meant to simulate a system's own defense forces, sort of like police. A more important system will have more police, so the amount you get is dependent on how important the planets are, rather than how many planets there are. Next, this system makes these extra bonus points targetable and specific, so they can't help fleets on opposite sides of the system at the same time, and they can be destroyed by opposing ships.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2008-01-22 05:52pm

I fully agree with system defenses being destroyable, but why would I ever buy defenses for a 10 point world? It's a simple waste of resources; what this rule does is encourage those who plan on buying system defenses to have four systems holding 25 points worth of planets each.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2008-01-22 06:12pm

How about this then? Each 100 points gives you 100 patrol ships, which you then distribute to your systems as you choose. All other rules apply as normal.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-01-22 06:28pm

That solution doesn't solve Rogue's problem. On the other hand, if it's X defense per system, regardless of the number of systems, that encourages the use of 100 1pt systems.

And then there's the problem that some defenses logically shouldn't be destructible. Planetary sensor arrays, for example. How does those fit in? They should give longer range than ship base arrays, simply to allow defenders better visibility of incoming attackers. If they're really ship based, then why don't warship mount these much longer ranged arrays?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-22 06:56pm

I've tweaked my OOB a little; and by that, I noticed that my LSDs were looking more and more like Fleet C3 ships, so I've renamed them and pretty much just kept on going. Also, posted a new ship picture- further proof that Esperance is a land untouched by modern frivilarities like taste.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-22 07:02pm

One more thing, Shinn: there's actually only 2 Broadswords in my task force; I wasn't sure if you typo'd or misread it, but I thought I should point that out before I started flinging missiles and rail rounds.

This post may be edited momentarily with more comments/questions. Either way, I should have my response/opening moves up tonight.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2008-01-22 08:57pm

For the record, my squadron I have sent to the North-West consist of two Battlecruisers, three heavy cruisers and sixteen escorts.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-22 09:49pm

Rules-lawyer question: in the battle between me and Shinn, would I calculate the damage output of my ships before or after his attack? It's kinda relevant to my tactics.

If it's relevant, I "saw" the ships coming, so the 2 poor bastards weren't exactly blindsided.

*Edit* Nevermind, I asked about this in chat. Anyway, Shinn, posted. Contact me if there's any problems.

*Edit2* I've tweaked my damage report to acknowledge some things and added a small bit here and there to the actual battle scenes. Nothing of relevance, however, has been changed.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2008-01-23 10:20am

Since Neph is aout to start war with Makay, Can a Mod tell me where my Diplomatic Envoy is in regards to her approaching battle fleet? Im curious as they might be upset the an hounrable and wholly Human Province is going to be attacked! Aliens indeed!

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-23 12:02pm

I've got 75 points I need to spend on foreign Syndicalist groups; does anyone care to volunteer for a cadre of delightful internal dissidents?

Post by **Beowulf** » 2008-01-23 12:14pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Since Neph is about to start war with Makay, Can a Mod tell me where my Diplomatic Envoy is in regards to her approaching battle fleet? I'm curious as they might be upset the honorable and wholly Human Province is going to be attacked! Aliens indeed!

Anywhere you want them to be. They left first, right? Except of course, if they're actually in that system already, you should have previously mentioned that fact.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2008-01-23 12:23pm

Wel lI DID post that they were going, and were on the outskirts, and realeaseing the Giant Robots that they don't have... I was waiting for something from Dartkevil along the lines of "Oh look! those people from next door are sending diplomats, what should we don with them?" kind of thing...
*glares at Darkevil*

Darkevilme · Post by **Darkevilme** » 2008-01-23 12:26pm

I thought you were doing that beyond the Makay sensor net, dunno why. Just thought i didnt know you were coming as of yet.....*goes to reread crossroadian post, sheepishly*

In other news it seems i'll be weathering at least two attacks, one of them a doozy, before my next production phase. But that's okay cause i have a syndicalist infestation

which means i get to imitate the combine and use things like this.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2008-01-23 02:26pm

Each point of +D lowers the damage your fleet takes by .25 [...] +N points of D soaks N x .25 points of damage per turn, allowing you to ignore it entirely.

It take that to mean that damage done is (N x .25) flat, not (N x .25) per each ship in a fleet. Am I correct?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2008-01-23 03:14pm

Ah, air power. History's proven method of dealing with guerilla insurgents.