Fall to the Good side?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-23 04:04am

Aside from Luke, has there been a Force sensitive character in all of Star Wars, that has had a mass of shit happen to them that DOESN'T fall to the Dark Side? One that has had some intestinal fortitude to stand up and say, "Fuck You (insert villain here), I am good and there is nothing you can do about it.".

My memories of EU characters are fading as I haven't been able to bring myself to read any of the crap out there since before they killed Chewie.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2008-01-23 04:07am

The only one coming to mind at the moment is Zayne Carrick.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 04:30am

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, after all, Obi-Wan didn't fall to the dark side, nor did Yoda or Mace Windu, Qwi-Gon, or any of the other Jedi. Could you please clarify?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2008-01-23 05:08am

He means people other than Jedi, who are practically raised from birth to resist the Dark Side.

Luke, for example, was just some shmo before he was trained as a Jedi and had next to zero Dark Side resistance training, but still he was strong enough in terms of character to tell the Dark Side to go fuck itself. Thats, i gather, what he means.

And the answer, as far as i know, is no we haven't. Which i think says more about Luke's strength of character than anything else. If you think about it the Dark Side has a lot to offer someone willing to throw away any shred of morality and accept it. Just seems he was unwilling to do so, or considered it insufficient reason to.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 07:02am

Oh, I see. I guess I was a little confused about what he meant, because when Luke was tempted, he had been trained as a Jedi by that point. Not the from birth stuff, but some training none the less. As for the question, I have precisely zero familiarity with the novels and comic books.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2008-01-23 08:20am

Would Darth Revan count?

Technically, he came back to the light by having his memories stripped, but once he rediscovered his identity, he chose not to go down the dark path a second time.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 08:24am

Well, he was a fully trained Jedi, not exactly like Luke, who was basically a farmboy with a few years training.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2008-01-23 08:52am

Kartarn might meet your definition.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 09:09am

Knife wrote:Kartarn might meet your definition.

I would agree, wasn't he even older than Luke when he was trained?

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-01-23 11:12am

He wasn't trained at all, at least not until after Jerec had tempted him.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-01-23 11:53am

TC Pilot wrote:He wasn't trained at all, at least not until after Jerec had tempted him.

But he did fall to the dark-side, before JK2. (In the "Mysteries of the Sith" expansion)

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » 2008-01-23 12:41pm

DEATH wrote:
TC Pilot wrote:He wasn't trained at all, at least not until after Jerec had tempted him.
But he did fall to the dark-side, before JK2. (In the "Mysteries of the Sith" expansion)

Then Luke doesn't qualify either, as he fell in Dark Empire.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 12:44pm

Terralthra wrote:Then Luke doesn't qualify either, as he fell in Dark Empire.

So then only full Jedi trained from an exceedingly young age have never been tempted by the Dark Side? I guess when Yoda tried to deny Luke and Anakin training, he wasn't just being a dick after all.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2008-01-23 01:15pm

Where does this "fall to the dark side" come from anyway?

From what I know it is always "turn to the dark side". Or as emperor Palpatine expressed it in the ROTJ-novel a person can be seduced, but never forced to become evil.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-01-23 01:32pm

DEATH wrote:But he did fall to the dark-side, before JK2. (In the "Mysteries of the Sith" expansion)

Did he really, though? Considering he outright rejected the Dark Side when he was actually forced to make a choice between good and evil (i.e. killing Mara when she surrendered to him), it seems to me he was more overwhelmed by the temple's Dark Side aura than anything.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-23 01:54pm

Terralthra wrote:
DEATH wrote:
TC Pilot wrote:He wasn't trained at all, at least not until after Jerec had tempted him.
But he did fall to the dark-side, before JK2. (In the "Mysteries of the Sith" expansion)
Then Luke doesn't qualify either, as he fell in Dark Empire.

When did Luke fall to the Dark Side? Even in DE, he was constantly plotting behind Palpatine's back and doing good and IIRC he said something along the lines of; "The temptation was great and I would have been seduced if not for your help." when he was talking to Leia.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-23 01:56pm

FTeik wrote:Where does this "fall to the dark side" come from anyway?

From what I know it is always "turn to the dark side". Or as emperor Palpatine expressed it in the ROTJ-novel a person can be seduced, but never forced to become evil.

Turn, fall, give in, be seduced by, whatever, they all have the same outcome. Does it really matter what terminology you use?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2008-01-23 02:04pm

havokeff wrote:
FTeik wrote:Where does this "fall to the dark side" come from anyway?

From what I know it is always "turn to the dark side". Or as emperor Palpatine expressed it in the ROTJ-novel a person can be seduced, but never forced to become evil.
Turn, fall, give in, be seduced by, whatever, they all have the same outcome. Does it really matter what terminology you use?

Yes, it does matter.

"Turning to the dark side" suggests a choice, a responsibility for ones own actions.

"Falling to the dark side" sounds like an accident, something that wasn't supposed to happen under ordinary circumstances. As long as the world is bright and shiny it is easy to be good. The true test is how you act, when you're under pressure and have to make the difficult choices.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-23 02:13pm

FTeik wrote:
havokeff wrote:
FTeik wrote:Where does this "fall to the dark side" come from anyway?

From what I know it is always "turn to the dark side". Or as emperor Palpatine expressed it in the ROTJ-novel a person can be seduced, but never forced to become evil.
Turn, fall, give in, be seduced by, whatever, they all have the same outcome. Does it really matter what terminology you use?

Yes, it does matter.

"Turning to the dark side" suggests a choice, a responsibility for ones own actions.

"Falling to the dark side" sounds like an accident, something that wasn't supposed to happen under ordinary circumstances. As long as the world is bright and shiny it is easy to be good. The true test is how you act, when you're under pressure and have to make the difficult choices.

I understand what you are saying, but in SW the words themselves are interchangeable. There are Fallen Jedi, but nobody thinks it happened by accident. "Oops I stepped in the Dark Side." People succumb, give in, turn, but they are all, like Obi-Wan said, seduced, by the power of the Dark Side.

A nice "RL" example of this is Lucifer. He is the First Fallen or leader of the Fallen Angels, but everyone knows that it wasn't an accident.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2008-01-23 02:43pm

What about Anakin?

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 02:55pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:What about Anakin?

What about him? This is about people who didn't fall to the dark side, remember?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-01-23 03:27pm

wjs7744 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:What about Anakin?
What about him? This is about people who didn't fall to the dark side, remember?

Anakin is the exact opposite of Luke in this case.
Anakin had over a decade of the best training and every advantage that a Jedi could have and he turned because he was a stubborn idiot who wouldn't listen. He turned because his mom died and he THOUGHT his wife might die.

Luke saw his "parents", Owen and Beru, burned to a crisp. Saw his mentor and teacher cut in half in front of him. Never even knew his real parents, until he found out that Darth Vader, one of the most prolific murderers in the galaxy was his dad.
He stood against the Emperor, at the absolute pinnacle of his power, not even fully trained, with just as much, if not more to loose than Anakin ever did, and he still said "FUCK YOU! I am a Jedi!"

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2008-01-23 03:36pm

wjs7744 wrote:
Gustav32Vasa wrote:What about Anakin?
What about him? This is about people who didn't fall to the dark side, remember?

What?

When did Anakin turn/fall to the dark side.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-01-23 03:38pm

Gustav32Vasa wrote:When did Anakin turn/fall to the dark side.

Did you sleep through RotS or something?

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2008-01-23 03:39pm

I'm not sure, but I tough that Anakin Solo (the nephew of Vader, not Anakin Skywalker) didn't fall to the Dark Side. Am I right and is he qualified to our discussion?