What to do if you are stupid?

[Nova Andromeda]

-Your entire life you've been smarter than most (IQ ~130). Life is good even if stupid people seem to go out of their way to annoy you daily. They do everything from worship sky fairies to use unproven new age medicines and ignore sound medical advice. Most of the time they just harm themselves, but often you pay a price for their idiocy. Today, however, Q may change all that. Unless you answer his question correctly, he is going to drop your IQ to around 90. In addition, he is going to muddy your memory so that you can't quite recall why you did and/or do all the 'smart' things you did/do.

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people? Q means interests in the strickly evolutionary sense (stupidity traits/genes and all). He reminds you that the smart people may often have your interests in mind during good times, but that their interests will probably come first in bad times (i.e., you can't count on trusting smart people to do the right thing by you). In addition, he warns you that you won't be smart enough to properly judge arguments made by smart people in society unless they really are as straight forward and simple as 1+1=2. His last hint is that perhaps you should look to how stupid people behave since they aren't doing bad at all in the darwinian sense these days. Perhaps ignoring most of what the smart people say, viewing them with contempt/fear/etc., and breading fast isn't such a bad idea. Of course, this is Q and he may just be mocking you.



-Hopefully there aren't too many holes in this game, but if there are and they can be plugged please do so.

[Broomstick]

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people?

Marry a smart person who will take care of you.

[Nova Andromeda]

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people?

Marry a smart person who will take care of you.

-That's one option, but you're assumming the inteligence gap won't be a huge barrier to that strategy.

[Zixinus]

Well, being stupid doesn't automatically mean you have to be stupid forever. One can try to be smart. Not being smart does not mean that you cannot be wise.

[Gullible Jones]

Run for president?

[darthbob88]

Run for president?

True. Intelligence is not necessarily a prerequisite for Presidency, as the incumbent ably demonstrates.

[Nova Andromeda]

Run for president?

-You laugh, but think about how he won the presidency and what his policies have been with regard to the 'intellectual elite' (good servants, but must be kept in their place).

[Admiral Valdemar]

I hear suicide helps. It's like natural selection, but with the added bonus of dignity.

[Guardsman Bass]

Try to find a position where having mediocre intelligence won't necessarily disqualify you or leave you impoverished.

Does the scenario also mean that stuff that bored the hell out of you when you were a smart person is entertaining and/or more tolerable?

[Nova Andromeda]

I hear suicide helps. It's like natural selection, but with the added bonus of dignity.

-In what way is this a constructive comment?

Try to find a position where having mediocre intelligence won't necessarily disqualify you or leave you impoverished.

Does the scenario also mean that stuff that bored the hell out of you when you were a smart person is entertaining and/or more tolerable?

-Finding a job is a good idea, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you are hardworking and moderately skilled (one can be very skilled without much intelligence). In addition, it isn't even necessary for darwinian success in a society like those in the U.S. or Canada or Europe.

-Yes, boring stupid stuff may seem funny if it really turns out to be dependent on one's intelligence.

[Broomstick]

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people?

Marry a smart person who will take care of you.

-That's one option, but you're assumming the inteligence gap won't be a huge barrier to that strategy.

A person with an IQ of 90 is hardly a drooling idiot, just a bit less than average. Such a person might excel at, say, maintaining a household from a cooking/cleaning/whatever standpoint for a corporate employed spouse.

[Admiral Valdemar]

-In what way is this a constructive comment?

This is a zero sum game with the odds stacked against you from the beginning. You're not so stupid that without guidance you'd walk into traffic, but not smart enough to really judge anything more than rudimentary arguments and syllogisms. In other words, based on the totally arbitrary and quite useless IQ score, you're a middling road moron in a sea of other morons and smart, self-absorbed manipulators who you'll only realise are screwing you in the rear after the fact.

The answer is: you do nothing. You continue on regardless, doing what the masses usually do, because you're either too dumb to be original, or too afraid to defy convention.

Or you kill yourself. Because let's face it, many people feel that's a more productive route to take these days given the alternatives.

[Junghalli]

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people?

Try to become less stupid. Look at the morons we've seen on this board: the truly stupid are usually the ignorant, stubborn, and intellectually lazy. Even if it's partly genetic a little education and a change of perspective would probably do wonders for most of those people.

[Nova Andromeda]

The question you need to answer is simple. What should a stupid person do to guard their interests in an open society (Canada/US/etc.) when there are a number of significantly smarter people?

Try to become less stupid. Look at the morons we've seen on this board: the truly stupid are usually the ignorant, stubborn, and intellectually lazy. Even if it's partly genetic a little education and a change of perspective would probably do wonders for most of those people.

-Well this person will not start out completely ignorant, stubborn, or lazy. His problem will be lack of problem solving ability which would be very hard for him to improve significantly without relying on mental skill taught to him by others (which he would probably not understand very well and therefore would not be able to trust).

[Nova Andromeda]

Marry a smart person who will take care of you.

-That's one option, but you're assumming the inteligence gap won't be a huge barrier to that strategy.

A person with an IQ of 90 is hardly a drooling idiot, just a bit less than average. Such a person might excel at, say, maintaining a household from a cooking/cleaning/whatever standpoint for a corporate employed spouse.

-You have a higher opinion of average intelligence than I do apparently.
-I'm sure such a person could hold a real job that requires complex skills, but what you describe is a glorified miad and not a spouse who would be competing with people smarter than them for a mate. Perhaps a good percentage of people are looking for a maid spouse, but none that I know. Of course, if you could "marry up" over several generations that should fix your problem.

[Nova Andromeda]

-In what way is this a constructive comment?

This is a zero sum game with the odds stacked against you from the beginning. You're not so stupid that without guidance you'd walk into traffic, but not smart enough to really judge anything more than rudimentary arguments and syllogisms. In other words, based on the totally arbitrary and quite useless IQ score, you're a middling road moron in a sea of other morons and smart, self-absorbed manipulators who you'll only realise are screwing you in the rear after the fact.

The answer is: you do nothing. You continue on regardless, doing what the masses usually do, because you're either too dumb to be original, or too afraid to defy convention.

Or you kill yourself. Because let's face it, many people feel that's a more productive route to take these days given the alternatives.

-I was thinking that ignoring the advice from the smarter part of the population and simply out breeding them would be a perfectly good strategy in a first world country. Most of the smart people either aren't motivated enough or not smart enough to do anything serious about it. Suicide certainly does nothing to improve ones darwinian success.

[brianeyci]

It certainly is not a zero sum game. You can come out ahead knowing you are stupid. You are not so stupid you don't know you're stupid and that matters, a shitload. Imagine if someone had Mike's attitude, but was stupid. That would be intolerable.

So first, got to become humble. Be prepared not to speak on any technical or scientific matters at all. You are average, so you can certainly understand politics and human history. But the main thing is to change one's attitude; be prepared to accept when you're wrong and fast, and surround yourself with capable but more intelligent friends.

I don't buy the idea that more intelligent friends won't be able to stand you because you're stupid; Making friends is about personality more than intelligence. So Broomstick's plan to marry someone intelligent is solid.

[Nova Andromeda]

I don't buy the idea that more intelligent friends won't be able to stand you because you're stupid; Making friends is about personality more than intelligence. So Broomstick's plan to marry someone intelligent is solid.

-First, I never adressed his ability to make friends.
-Second, making friends is vastly easier than convincing someone to marry you and then stick by that agreement. Your argument is a leap in logic. Nevertheless, Broomstick's plan may work depending on the competition's competency at the mating game.

[brianeyci]

I don't buy the idea that more intelligent friends won't be able to stand you because you're stupid; Making friends is about personality more than intelligence. So Broomstick's plan to marry someone intelligent is solid.

-First, I never adressed his ability to make friends.
-Second, making friends is vastly easier than convincing someone to marry you and then stick by that agreement. Your argument is a leap in logic. Nevertheless, Broomstick's plan may work depending on the competition's competency at the mating game.

No, yours is a leap in logic. There's plenty of intelligent people who marry less intelligent people, so Broomstick's plan is solid. Broomstick has married a physics professor and engineer.

Do you know the best marriages have husband and wife as best friends? So exccccccccuse me for assuming that you meant the stupid could not make friends with the intelligent if you assume the unintelligent cannot marry the intelligent. We're not talking about drooling morons here.

[brianeyci]

I wonder if you realize what the fuck you're saying. You created this damn thread to explore possibilities of what to do if a person is stupid; I assume you're trying to find a moral way to live being stupid.

But then you reply to a perfectly moral plan with the answer, "you assume your intelligence is not a barrier."

Well what the fuck! That half-assed meaningless reply could be applied to anybody's plan, so what the fuck is your point?

[Nova Andromeda]

I don't buy the idea that more intelligent friends won't be able to stand you because you're stupid; Making friends is about personality more than intelligence. So Broomstick's plan to marry someone intelligent is solid.

-First, I never adressed his ability to make friends.
-Second, making friends is vastly easier than convincing someone to marry you and then stick by that agreement. Your argument is a leap in logic. Nevertheless, Broomstick's plan may work depending on the competition's competency at the mating game.

No, yours is a leap in logic. There's plenty of intelligent people who marry less intelligent people, so Broomstick's plan is solid. Broomstick has married a physics professor and engineer.

Do you know the best marriages have husband and wife as best friends? So exccccccccuse me for assuming that you meant the stupid could not make friends with the intelligent if you assume the unintelligent cannot marry the intelligent. We're not talking about drooling morons here.

-Even if Broomstick was a drooling idiot (which I doubt) and the spouse a world genius that's hardly statistically relevent.
-Excuse me for not realizing you viewed everything as black or white / yes or no / 1 or 0. Just about everyone marries someone of different intelligence. However, I'd bet large intelligence gaps in successful marriages are much less common than they would be in random pairings. In addition, what makes you think that best friends (in adult life, not as kids) don't tend to have similar intelligence?

You created this damn thread to explore possibilities of what to do if a person is stupid; I assume you're trying to find a moral way to live being stupid.

-I'm just wondering what 'evolutionary strategies' could be used successfully within a species when your competition is significantly smarter than you (the assumption is that interbreeding is possible). If that strategy happens to be moral all the better.
-I'm unconvinced at this point that marrying smarter could be used as the primary strategy because it assumes that the stupid persons can compete just as well as the smarter people for the more intelligent mates. I agree intelligence isn't the only factor or even the primary factor in mate choice, however, that isn't evidence that this strategy works.

[brianeyci]

There's so much bullshit in your post I don't know what to address first.

1. Who the fuck cares if Broomstick is a drooling idiot or not? Given that your 90 IQ does not show drooling idiot, and I have not said drooling idiot can marry genius, what the fuck is that red herring in there for? Some kind of retarded strawman? Your rebuttal it isn't a "representative sample" totally ignores the point of the example -- to show it is possible.

2. Natural selection has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with what can live longer, what can survive. If an animal being stupid propagates the species, so be it. For example, the Black Widow male sacrificing himself is rather stupid, but advances the species so he evolved to do it.

3. You fucking retard. There's plenty of examples of stupid people who marry smarter people out there; that you don't accept that and reply with a pithy line that there's "no evidence this strategy works" is pretty fucking dumb. Dumb blonds hook up with rich trial lawyers all the time -- the strategy can work and you refuse to accept it as an answer, because you don't like it.

[Darth Wong]

However, I'd bet large intelligence gaps in successful marriages are much less common than they would be in random pairings. In addition, what makes you think that best friends (in adult life, not as kids) don't tend to have similar intelligence?

I would be interested to know whether there was any real data on this, as opposed to speculation and assumption.

I'm just wondering what 'evolutionary strategies' could be used successfully within a species when your competition is significantly smarter than you (the assumption is that interbreeding is possible). If that strategy happens to be moral all the better.

What makes you think you'd be competing in the same arenas? Obviously, somebody with an IQ or 90 is not going to be competing with a genius for the job of theoretical mathematician. And guess what: the guy with the IQ of 160 would find a job as a bus driver to be absolutely intolerable. There's no reason why people of greatly unequal intelligence must be "competing" directly against each other.

I'm unconvinced at this point that marrying smarter could be used as the primary strategy because it assumes that the stupid persons can compete just as well as the smarter people for the more intelligent mates. I agree intelligence isn't the only factor or even the primary factor in mate choice, however, that isn't evidence that this strategy works.

It works much better for women than men. A beautiful sexy woman can have an IQ or 90 or 100 and she will have no trouble attracting men of arbitrarily high status. If she's a genuinely nice person, a lot of those men would even be quite eager to stay with her indefinitely. In contrast, I suspect a lot of women would find a low-IQ prettyboy to be rather intolerable for anything more than a brief fling.

[brianeyci]

I figured out your game Nova.

He reminds you that the smart people may often have your interests in mind during good times, but that their interests will probably come first in bad times (i.e., you can't count on trusting smart people to do the right thing by you).

You want the conclusion of this thread to be that intelligent people do not care about stupid people. Why the fuck else would you blatantly reject the marriage idea? Nevermind this is a hypothetical situation asking what members personally would do, not asking them to prove in the general case. What the fuck kind of answer did you expect, a statistical survey of the intelligence gap between smart and stupid people? . If that's what you want fine, but do a better job of asking next time.

So you dress up your belief in a story to give you plausible deniability (if someone calls your op on being stupid you'll say it was Q's and not your idea) and you hope for people to confirm your Randian ideas.

Well I'm not going to entertain your flawed game. It is the stupid who do not care about the smart, not the other way around. People like George W. Bush who don't care about the rest of the world, while if Mike was in charge he'd care about even the most stupid person.

[Superman]

I'm unconvinced at this point that marrying smarter could be used as the primary strategy because it assumes that the stupid persons can compete just as well as the smarter people for the more intelligent mates.

This is funny. I personally know three highly intelligent and successful physicians who married women who aren't very bright. They're hot as hell, but they're well... let's just say not very intelligent.

I remember a professor of mine once talked about this. Men, overall (notice I didn't say all men - for those of you who feel the need to point out yourself as being an exception) , don't respond to intelligence the way a woman might. Guys respond to appearances, and this makes perfect sense from an evolutionary standpoint. Intelligence has little or nothing to do it. Ultimately, it's the woman's ability to reproduce that has ultimate consequences.