How has *insert sci fi film* affected the genre?

[Ford Prefect]

Ghost in the Shell should probably be mentioned for raising questions that are often repeated in other works, e.g., "Are humans only the sum of their experiences, i.e., memories?" It also explored the implications of widespread use of cybernetic implants, e.g., the danger that a hacker can take control of another cyborg's body.

Incidentally, Masamune Shirow loves this sort of 'what is human' theme. It's permeates Appleseed as well. I've always wondered about his influences, and whether or not he ever read Phillip K. Dick.

[Lazarus]

Right, I talked to my tutor today who thought a comparison of oBSG and nBSG is a great idea, so I'm going with that. Thanks for the ideas, if anyone has any suggestions for points of comparison (what has changed and why, genre conventions etc), I'd be grateful!

[Coyote]

Right, I talked to my tutor today who thought a comparison of oBSG and nBSG is a great idea, so I'm going with that. Thanks for the ideas, if anyone has any suggestions for points of comparison (what has changed and why, genre conventions etc), I'd be grateful!

Well, obviously what people expect from their villains is different. In oBSG, it was guaranteed the Cylons would show up pretty much every other episode to exchange fire with the Galacticans and lose, basically just an excuse to burn up special effects budgets and keep the young boys in the audience fascinated.

In nBSG they're willing to utterly forget about the Cylons for quite awhile and focus on people & relationships (to the point where a good, pointless Cylon attack would actually be welcome at times!).

There's issues of identity and what makes a person human with the Sharon thing, and what sort of loyalty is needed to qualify as human (whereas Sharon exhibits more humanity at times than the humans). There's also a lot more willingness to confront God and religion, and how that ties into human identity (whereas in oBSG "god" and "the gods" were alluded to but they always blinked away at the last minute, when things got real interesting-- hey, look, Cylon attack! Run!)

Family of course is also explored more, in oBSG it seemed that everyone was a happy family uniting against odds; in nBSG there's a lot of dysfunction. One thing I really liked about oBSG was an episode where Starbuck, who was an orphan, found his biological father-- this would be a good identity issue looked into (I dunno if they used something like that in nBSG yet, I haven't seen th emost recent season, going off of DVDs).

Just the overall tone in and of itself is indicative of how much audiences' expectations have changed....

[Darth Wong]

Sci-fi may be about distant worlds and far-flung futures, but its themes and tones are usually a reflection of the present-day society.

oBSG was made in the 1970s, when people had gotten fed up with years of social malaise, military setbacks, and economic crisis, and who wanted entertainment that would make them feel good about themselves.

nBSG, on the other hand, is being made now, for an audience which has grown fat, lazy, and self-indulgent off the dot-com bubble economy of the 1990s and the easy-credit false luxury boom of the 2000s. They don't need their entertainment to coddle them; society has been coddling them. They need their entertainment to be harsh, violent, and cruel.

[Patrick Degan]

Sci-fi may be about distant worlds and far-flung futures, but its themes and tones are usually a reflection of the present-day society.

oBSG was made in the 1970s, when people had gotten fed up with years of social malaise, military setbacks, and economic crisis, and who wanted entertainment that would make them feel good about themselves.

nBSG, on the other hand, is being made now, for an audience which has grown fat, lazy, and self-indulgent off the dot-com bubble economy of the 1990s and the easy-credit false luxury boom of the 2000s. They don't need their entertainment to coddle them; society has been coddling them. They need their entertainment to be harsh, violent, and cruel.

A... disturbing observation, to say the least.

[tim31]

But bang on the money, if you ask me.

What about the preachiness that has crept into sci-fi/doomsday blockbusters? The Day After Tomorrow(don't ignore climate chage), I Am Legend(genetic engineering is playing god)... Anyone else? It seems like a guilt trip rather than the Accepted Bleak Outlook of 60s/70s era doomsday.

[Havok]

But bang on the money, if you ask me.

What about the preachiness that has crept into sci-fi/doomsday blockbusters? The Day After Tomorrow(don't ignore climate chage), I Am Legend(genetic engineering is playing god)... Anyone else? It seems like a guilt trip rather than the Accepted Bleak Outlook of 60s/70s era doomsday.

Well those are our nukes. Those are our end of the world scenarios. It is what we worry about, just like Heston and all the others were worried about nukes.

[Zixinus]

Well,

2001 is a possibility certainly, but the fact is I can't even bring myself to watch it because it's so badly edited for a major release by todays standards. We watched 10 minutes in class on Friday, and nothing happened. We then watched a further 5 minutes from another part of the film, where nothing also happened. I'm aware the film is significant in the genre, but I think I'll be more successful and motivated if I choose films I don't cringe at the thought of having to watch.

You are aware that the film is about 4 hours long? It's not a type of movie you watch in class. Also, its not an action movie. You have to get used to that idea. You have to relax.

The Rocketeer vs King of the Rocketmen

Such a film exists? I must know more! I am a Rocketeer fan.

[Zixinus]

Oh and this site might be insightful: http://www.daviddarling.info/encycloped ... r1940.html

[Uraniun235]

You are aware that the film is about 4 hours long? It's not a type of movie you watch in class. Also, its not an action movie. You have to get used to that idea. You have to relax.

2001 is not four hours long. It's not even three hours long.

2001 is a possibility certainly, but the fact is I can't even bring myself to watch it because it's so badly edited for a major release by todays standards. We watched 10 minutes in class on Friday, and nothing happened. We then watched a further 5 minutes from another part of the film, where nothing also happened. I'm aware the film is significant in the genre, but I think I'll be more successful and motivated if I choose films I don't cringe at the thought of having to watch.

I don't think "modern editing standards" is a valid point, however; at the very least, there were many critics at release who panned the film for being slow and dull.

Also, it's not as if Kubrick didn't know what he was doing; I'm sure he was aware that certain scenes would drag on, and I think he intended to convey the dull monotony that Discovery's voyage entailed for the two astronauts.

[Darth Wong]

You are aware that the film is about 4 hours long? It's not a type of movie you watch in class. Also, its not an action movie. You have to get used to that idea. You have to relax.

2001 is not four hours long. It's not even three hours long.

It feels like it's twelve hours long.

I don't think "modern editing standards" is a valid point, however; at the very least, there were many critics at release who panned the film for being slow and dull.

I'm pretty sure it was meant to be viewed while high on something.

Also, it's not as if Kubrick didn't know what he was doing; I'm sure he was aware that certain scenes would drag on, and I think he intended to convey the dull monotony that Discovery's voyage entailed for the two astronauts.

It was obviously intentional. But the idea of forcing people to experience the monotony of space travel is patronizing at best. Did he think the audience was too fucking stupid to realize that actual space travel is considerably slower than the way it's shown in Flash Gordon serials?

There's an old saying about movies: "good movies are like real-life, but with the boring parts cut out". Kubrick seemed to think that some of those boring parts needed to be put back in, which is why only high-falutin' film fans like it. Most people can't sit through the damned thing.

[NeoGoomba]

A... disturbing observation, to say the least.

I'm reminded of Watchmen, when Ozymandias seemingly came to the same conclusion, and was able to estimate the US population's violent tendancies and rising anxiety simply by turning on his televisions and observing how brutal and harsh shows and commercials had become.

[Darth Wong]

Could it be that humans actually need a certain level of deprivation and cruelty in their lives, and if they're meticulously protected from it then they'll try to manufacture it, either in reality or in their entertainment (or both)?

Here's a relevant quote for you:

"The people need wholesome fear. They want to fear something. They want someone to frighten them and make them shudderingly submissive ... Why babble about brutality and get indignant about tortures. The masses want them. They need something to give them a thrill of horror." - Ernst Röhm, German Nazi leader (1887-1934)

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'm a feel geek. I love to watch movies a lot of people think are archaic or old hat and I like quirky shit. I don't hate Kubrick either, because Dr. Strangelove was awesome.

I once tried to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey. Thrice, actually. I just...couldn't...do it. It is the most insufferably slow-paced, boring, pointless, and dull movie I've ever tried to watch. And I've succeeded in watching some preachy shit.

[Stark]

Could it be that humans actually need a certain level of deprivation and cruelty in their lives, and if they're meticulously protected from it then they'll try to manufacture it, either in reality or in their entertainment (or both)?

Here's a relevant quote for you:

"The people need wholesome fear. They want to fear something. They want someone to frighten them and make them shudderingly submissive ... Why babble about brutality and get indignant about tortures. The masses want them. They need something to give them a thrill of horror." - Ernst Röhm, German Nazi leader (1887-1934)

Maybe it's self-destruction: even people simply coddled by their families often seek absudly self-destructive methods of expression.

[Illuminatus Primus]

"The people need wholesome fear. They want to fear something. They want someone to frighten them and make them shudderingly submissive ... Why babble about brutality and get indignant about tortures. The masses want them. They need something to give them a thrill of horror." - Ernst Röhm, German Nazi leader (1887-1934)

I do think our resident Nazi stormtrooper pederast here is suffering from at least a little projection. He likes to fantasize that that is how his victims feel.

[Havok]

Could it be that humans actually need a certain level of deprivation and cruelty in their lives, and if they're meticulously protected from it then they'll try to manufacture it, either in reality or in their entertainment (or both)?

Here's a relevant quote for you:

"The people need wholesome fear. They want to fear something. They want someone to frighten them and make them shudderingly submissive ... Why babble about brutality and get indignant about tortures. The masses want them. They need something to give them a thrill of horror." - Ernst Röhm, German Nazi leader (1887-1934)

The Matrix touched on that, when Agent Smith is making his humans are a virus speech to Morpheus. "You kept waking up" he said of the Utopian matrix they originally programed for the humans.

[VT-16]

I don't hate Kubrick either, because Dr. Strangelove was awesome.

I thought Dr Strangelove was tedious and drawn out. And I've watched 2001 several times. :P

[ray245]

I wonder what is the reason we don't get to see large ground battles in most science fiction shows and movies...

[Bounty]

I wonder what is the reason we don't get to see large ground battles in most science fiction shows and movies...

Army on the ground <<< spaceship with big bomb.

From a filmic point of view, ground battles are extremely expensive to make. You either need a lot of extras or a lot of CGI, and both of those cost $$$. A movie might get away with it, but a TV show often just can't afford ground warfare.

[Ted C]

You could potentially do a remake comparison.

The original I Am Legend (starring Vincent Price, IIRC), The Omega Man, and the new I Am Legend all work from the same source material.

You could look at how a given story is treated differently by different screenwriters/directors for a different audience.

[NeoGoomba]

I do think our resident Nazi stormtrooper pederast here is suffering from at least a little projection. He likes to fantasize that that is how his victims feel.

And yet, look at the popularity of horror/slasher/torture porn movies, or any sort of thriller. Not to give the scumbag too much credit, but the cathartic nature of visual media for people can't be denied. If there wasn't some part of the human psyche that wanted to see blood and death and fear even a little, then such media wouldn't be popular at all.

[FSTargetDrone]

Blade Runner's depiction of a dystopic urban landscape, heavily polluted and littered, populated with miserable people who're doing the best they can to survive in such a hostile environment, was a great influence on a lot of later works, especially Japanese works-- see Bubblegum Crisis and Silent Möbius.

Blade Runner was somewhat unique in that its visual imprint became a fashion trend in general society, not just a sci-fi cliche. Countless music videos have emulated its visual motif, for example. The smoke, the grime, the garish clothing, the multi-coloured lights washing over everything, all of it.

Also, the heavy advertising within the movie universe. From the blimp drifting about with its speakers blaring about the wonders of The Off-World Colonies ("Come on, America, let's go to the colonies!") to high-rises incorporating advertisements for pills and soda pop on the sides of the structures themselves. There was advertisement everywhere.

EDIT: Please use Preview button to make sure multiple quote bubbles come out correctly~GR

[Darth Wong]

I didn't write that. Why is my name on the quote?

[NeoGoomba]

Looks like a quote tag screw up since the bottom part not in the bubble was from you I think.