Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

[Typhonis 1]

Who says we need nukes? I was thinking about that emp stuff earlier and wondered how the Baldricks woud take EMP being used against them. I mean sure they can use it but the sort of mass produced EMP a dedicated weapon can make?

Also there is one other class of weapons the military can use against them that no one may care they do....Chemical. Hell starts trying to use WMDs on us like the aforementioned plague and we break open our own toy chest.

[MKSheppard]

EMP is a total nonstarter. It's a vastly hyped and overrated threat.

[Starglider]

Also there is one other class of weapons the military can use against them that no one may care they do....Chemical.

Judging by all the bizarre blood colours, there's an extreme amount of biochemical diversity between demons, possibly moreso in just the sentient varieties than in the whole of earth's biosphere. Most of our existing chemical agents probably won't work, it'll take a lot of R&D to make ones that do and even if we do that, each agent will likely only work on certain specific kinds of demon.

Probably not worth it. Ramp up the tacnuke production instead. Glassing the entire surface of the demon realm with multimegaton nukes (AFAIK the cheapest way to do it when bomber delivery is available) may be OTT but I don't see a problem with dropping a few kilotons on any significant troop formation (in hell). The US will have to ramp fissible materials production back up again to sustain it, but that seems relatively easy compared to R&D on a new generation of demon-affecting chemical weapons.

EMP is a total nonstarter. It's a vastly hyped and overrated threat.

Probably, but if demon telepathy is actually just a funky form of radio, the psych warfare possibilities are encouraging. We can have EW planes flying around over hell blasting out a mix of Russian patriotic speeches and complete reruns of the Eurovision song contest across the whole EM spectrum - and the demons will have no way to escape it blaring in their heads.

[Jadeite]

They're not learning impaired so much as highly limited in their adaptability. In short, Jade, should she survive to escape, may go on to a perfectly excellent career as a civilian helicopter pilot and function as a normal part of our society--but she'd be completely unable to, say, go back to a university and get a degree in biology.

This is assuming the souls of the dead can return to our world.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

They're not learning impaired so much as highly limited in their adaptability. In short, Jade, should she survive to escape, may go on to a perfectly excellent career as a civilian helicopter pilot and function as a normal part of our society--but she'd be completely unable to, say, go back to a university and get a degree in biology.

This is assuming the souls of the dead can return to our world.

They're obviously not just "souls", it should be clear that the energy of the "soul" is instead partially converted into matter to form a new body during the transition to the higher dimensional plain.

[Sea Skimmer]

Lieutenant: General! The heavy infantry has breached the main gates of the city!
General: I wonder when the last time was a man said that to a commanding officer...

During the battle for Mandalay in 1945 the Japanese retreated into the cities old walled citadel, an enormous structure with 80ft thick stone faced walls and a water filled moat, all covering about 1.5 square miles. The British, having no really heavy weapons to breach the walls, brought up a troop of 5.5in guns to attack the main gate by direct fire! An entire infantry regiment provided covering fire, while the guns were said to leap into the air with every shot, having not been designed to be stable at 0 degrees elevation.

As it turned out to be, even this could not breach the gate and walls, but it provided an excellent distraction, as meanwhile infantrymen found a way through the forts drainage system to get into the interior. They established a drainhead before the Japanese noticed, and took the place from the inside out.

[Xon]

They're obviously not just "souls", it should be clear that the energy of the "soul" is instead partially converted into matter to form a new body during the transition to the higher dimensional plain.

This is where the "immortal soul" bit comes from.

If a human soul has enough energy that after falling from a higher energy domain it can still recreate an entire body and provide energy to near completely heal any damage for untold thousands of years, calling it immortal is completely justified.

Untill Stuart says otherwise, I'll go with that the demons arent actually doing anything to change a human when they show up in hell beyond inflicting harm to provoke the body to heal itself. I will go with that it is the 'dead' body's regeneration that generates waste energy of sometype which the demons actually harvest.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Based on when sentience may have developed among humans, and the note Stuart provided about none having actually died yet though they eventually would, we're looking at a lifespan in excess of 500,000 years for the typical hell-denizen human. I doubt it's much longer than that, but I'd still like to live for 500, 600k years.

[Stuart Mackey]

As far as the war-mobilization goes, I hope we do see some of the side-effects and the time it takes (it seems to be going rather fast right now) - war rationing, consumer goods loss, etc?

New Zealand experiences the greatest food commodity boom in its history: Would you like mint with your lamb? a nice glass of milk, perhaps?.

I actually just had a strange vision of the Allblacks doing the Haka in front of the hellmouth, and a few hellish legions turning back to hell soon afterwards

IIRC bagpipes and Haka were not liked by the Germans and Italians in WW2..but then they hated the NZ division full stop. I have no doubt that, when fully mobilized and equipped, the New Zealand army will be hated and feared by Hell's army just as it was by our enemies of WW1 and WW2.

[fnord]

Maybe, somewhat facetiously, along the lines of

"Damn baldricks won't surrender, sir."

"Right, they asked for it. SEND IN THE KIWIS!" ?

[Shroom Man 777]

Drag demons out for interrogation, or even allow, say, insertion of SEAL teams.... (I would like to see the look on a SEAL commander's face when he's told he needs to prep one of his teams for being teleported to Hell by a schizophrenic tranny).

Marines! Gobble down those MREs, boys, 'cause tonight...we dine...in HECK!

Semper Fi, Motherfucker!

[Xon]

Based on when sentience may have developed among humans, and the note Stuart provided about none having actually died yet though they eventually would, we're looking at a lifespan in excess of 500,000 years for the typical hell-denizen human. I doubt it's much longer than that, but I'd still like to live for 500, 600k years.

That is with demons harvesting thier life energy. We dont have any solid figures on how long hell-denizen humans can live without those demons shortening thier lifespan

[Junghalli]

Marines! Gobble down those MREs, boys, 'cause tonight...we dine...in HECK!

The quote possibilities for this are endless.

"Alright boys, tomorrow we're going to Hell. Literally."

"Man it's as hot as Hell down here. Oh yeah, this is Hell."

Or better yet, imagine a recruiting poster like this:

"Uncle Sam wants you ... to go to Hell!"

Somebody totally needs to do a photoshop of that.

[Academia Nut]

No no no. All of that is good and well, but you're ignoring the fact that the US Marine Corps has a very interesting nickname.

Devil Dogs

I can see Marines being deployed to Hell being told to "hound the devil". There will probably also be inspirational speeches made saying something along the lines of "Every single Marine in history is down there, cause you all know it in your bones that Heaven ain't going to let us in. What say we go bust those motherfucks out and give them their guns back?"

[Stuart Mackey]

Maybe, somewhat facetiously, along the lines of

"Damn baldricks won't surrender, sir."

"Right, they asked for it. SEND IN THE KIWIS!" ?

In his autobiography, 'Recollection of Rifleman Bowlby' by Alex Bowlby, the third Rifle's had failed in an attack on Lignano, and suffered heavy material losses. The Germans were in well prepared and sited position. Bowlby felt sorry for the German panzer Grenadiers, as the NZ div put in a night attack, and, after a rapid and heavy bombardment, cleared the positions with the bayonet.
NZ soldiers are today trained extensively in hand to hand and bayonet work.
I wonder just how difficult a baldrick is to deal to with edged weapons? from what I have seen a good war sword should deal with one, certainly a well placed bayonet..if you are wearing a tinfoil hat.

[Typhonis 1]

" An old addage my fellow marines is that ,' Marines never die. They go to Hell and regroup.' Well today will be a redletter day for the USMC. We are going to Hell we are linking up with that regrouping of our brother and sister Marines and we are going to show those Baldricks and their masters why we are called Devil Dogs "

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Maybe, somewhat facetiously, along the lines of

"Damn baldricks won't surrender, sir."

"Right, they asked for it. SEND IN THE KIWIS!" ?

In his autobiography, 'Recollection of Rifleman Bowlby' by Alex Bowlby, the third Rifle's had failed in an attack on Lignano, and suffered heavy material losses. The Germans were in well prepared and sited position. Bowlby felt sorry for the German panzer Grenadiers, as the NZ div put in a night attack, and, after a rapid and heavy bombardment, cleared the positions with the bayonet.
NZ soldiers are today trained extensively in hand to hand and bayonet work.
I wonder just how difficult a baldrick is to deal to with edged weapons? from what I have seen a good war sword should deal with one, certainly a well placed bayonet..if you are wearing a tinfoil hat.

I assume that combat helmets block the effect anyway; if they don't, wrapping a layer of tinfoil in them will be a cheap and easy mod without sacrificing the camoflauge of the helmet.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You know, couldn't we produce a line of general purpose attack aircraft capable of outperforming flying Baldricks in all respects simply by producing Bizjets with a hard-point in each wing (I know some already had this for military roles!) and part of the cabin replaced with a forward-firing cannon pack mounted on the dorsal surface? That might allow quick production of some stopgap numbers of, well, not perfect, but reasonably functional aircraft for tangling with harpies.

[Mr. Coffee]

Not to be a dick or nothing, but is there anyway at all that the commentary could get shunted off to a seperate thread? I mean, 8 story posts in sixteen pages. I almost missed part six because I thought it was just Stuart responding to the comments.

Anyways, awesome story, Stuart.

[Junghalli]

I wonder just how difficult a baldrick is to deal to with edged weapons? from what I have seen a good war sword should deal with one, certainly a well placed bayonet..if you are wearing a tinfoil hat.

Individually, the demons in the ranks of his legions were much less formidable than the great Heralds. They were formidable enough, that was true, their tough hides were impervious to arrows and the blows of swords

They're well-equipped to deal with melee attacks, which makes sense. I think in the last chapter they killed the guard with nails by driving them through his eyes.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Blows of swords. Stabbing with spears, lances, bayonets, should still work just fine.

Also, they're probably thinking in terms of bronze arrow-heads and swords.

[[R_H]]

You know, couldn't we produce a line of general purpose attack aircraft capable of outperforming flying Baldricks in all respects simply by producing Bizjets with a hard-point in each wing (I know some already had this for military roles!) and part of the cabin replaced with a forward-firing cannon pack mounted on the dorsal surface? That might allow quick production of some stopgap numbers of, well, not perfect, but reasonably functional aircraft for tangling with harpies.

Why bother with Biz-Jets? Why not a bunch of Super Tucanos or similar turboprop/jet trainer aircraft. They'd probably end up cheaper than the business jets.

[Adrian Laguna]

The geography of hell is that hell itself (where the human souls are) is a giant pit rather like an ancient super-volcano caldera in the geographical center of Satan's domain. It's surrounded by the walled City of Dis which acts as both an administrative capital and the guard zonel for Hell (since its a whole city, humans trying to get through it are easily detected - perhaps). Then outside Dis is an area where the demons live which is (by their standards) quite pleasant.

Eh, have you thought this through? We're talking about a shallow pit large enough to fit at the very least 10^11 people. Any city ringing it, even if it's only a couple of blocks wide, is going to be utterly gigantic. In fact, I doubt the entire demon population of Hell could fill it. Trying to make it from one end of Dis to the other probably makes crossing Mexico City look like a stroll down main avenue in a one traffic light town.


Also, I've been wondering if it's possible to skin a demon and use its hide as a disguise. I know I would certainly try it if I were in Hell, gotten free, and found a secluded spot where I could do it without being observed. That would certainly lead to much hilarity.

[Beowulf]

You know, couldn't we produce a line of general purpose attack aircraft capable of outperforming flying Baldricks in all respects simply by producing Bizjets with a hard-point in each wing (I know some already had this for military roles!) and part of the cabin replaced with a forward-firing cannon pack mounted on the dorsal surface? That might allow quick production of some stopgap numbers of, well, not perfect, but reasonably functional aircraft for tangling with harpies.

Why bother with Biz-Jets? Why not a bunch of Super Tucanos or similar turboprop/jet trainer aircraft. They'd probably end up cheaper than the business jets.

T-38s! Of course, at that point we're nearly using F-5s.

The problem with repurposing biz jets is that unless they're already certified to carry loads on the hard points, it's going to take a while, and you still have a couple months in which you need to prototype the thing. Better to ramp up production of aircraft which are already designed for the role than to make a new one.

I believe T-6s would be a good choice. Turbo-prop, but already cleared for carrying munitions, and not very expensive. $6 mil each, and a quarter of that cost is the zero-zero ejection seats. Additionally, it's already in production, because it's being used to replace the old T-37 trainers.

[Starglider]

Eh, have you thought this through? We're talking about a shallow pit large enough to fit at the very least 10^11 people. Any city ringing it, even if it's only a couple of blocks wide, is going to be utterly gigantic. In fact, I doubt the entire demon population of Hell could fill it.

See my post on the previous page. It'll actually be reasonably thick and quite well populated.

Also, I've been wondering if it's possible to skin a demon and use its hide as a disguise. I know I would certainly try it if I were in Hell, gotten free, and found a secluded spot where I could do it without being observed.

That is a staggeringly bad idea on several counts. It's almost impossible to do in the first place and if you did it wouldn't fool telepathic demons.

The problem with repurposing biz jets is that unless they're already certified to carry loads on the hard points, it's going to take a while, and you still have a couple months in which you need to prototype the thing. Better to ramp up production of aircraft which are already designed for the role than to make a new one.

Also, bizjets are going to be less rugged than military aircraft, which could seriously bump up attrition. As it is I am concerned about what the volcanic dust is going to do to the jet engines for aircraft flying repeatedly into hell; I'm expected incidents like this on a regular basis. To some extent that's good, the story is more interesting if humans don't have overwhelming air superiority.

Blows of swords. Stabbing with spears, lances, bayonets, should still work just fine. Also, they're probably thinking in terms of bronze arrow-heads and swords.

Well maybe. Let's not write off the demons too quickly here. They can take a great many bullets before going down. I imagine that even if you can get enough force into a thrust to breach their hide (lance+warhorse perhaps, a spear thrust isn't going to be that much more effective than a longbow-fired arrow) they'd take quite a few stabs too. A single human in melee combat with one is still screwed; even if they get a hit or two in the demon is just going to shrug it off, kill them and then heal the wounds with supernatural speed.