Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

UF: Stories written by users, both fanfics and original.

Moderator: LadyTevar

Locked
User avatar
Starglider
Miles Dyson
Posts: 8709
Joined: 2007-04-05 09:44pm
Location: Isle of Dogs
Contact:

Post by Starglider »

Fleet Admiral JD wrote:Starglider--I was talking in the upcoming battle when the Harpies will be occupied with the F16s and 18s and 22s ;)
There were originally 6666 harpies in the demon army. They've been the subject of significant attrition, but even if they've taken 50% losses they're going to outnumber all available figthers by at least five to one. I'm sure they'll all be shot down eventually, but it's going to take some time. Plus you don't want helicopters buzzing about at low level complicating life for the AAA gunners and artillery spotters. Helicopters are probably best reserved for chasing down any cavalry that somehow manages to evade the attentions of the armour units.

Besides if you absolutely must have some gatling-gun-on-demon action, take some A-10s. Not only is it faster, tougher and generally less vulnerable to harpies, it has the GAU-8/A; the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every single demon in the squad, accept no substitutes.
Fleet Admiral JD
Jedi Master
Posts: 1162
Joined: 2004-12-27 08:58pm
Location: GO BU!
Contact:

Post by Fleet Admiral JD »

Conceeded that it's not a practical idea. However, I'd love to have my hands on a gatling gun out the door of a helicopter flying laterally along a broad line of demons. The satisfaction of that is just great. :twisted:
Parrothead | CINC HABNAV | Black Mage In Training (Invited by Lady T)

The Acta Diurna: My blog on politics, history, theatre tech, music, and more!
User avatar
fusion
Jedi Knight
Posts: 608
Joined: 2006-03-28 10:35pm
Location: Capital System, Mid-Childa

Post by fusion »

Starglider wrote: Besides if you absolutely must have some gatling-gun-on-demon action, take some A-10s. Not only is it faster, tougher and generally less vulnerable to harpies, it has the GAU-8/A; the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every single demon in the squad, accept no substitutes.
I agree too, it is teh best there is and it can even accept High Explosive Incendiary rounds...


Anyways awesome fic.
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

I do want at least one scene with 120~ B-52s fully loaded and in formation cluster-bombing a demon army into oblivion.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

Stravo wrote:I wouldn't be chuckling too freely about this just yet.
Thankfully, none on the human side appear to be falling into this trap. Like Petraeus, the utter pwnage dished out by Humanity United only worries me more. Hell may have some fight in it, and we haven't seen anything of Heaven yet.
User avatar
starfury
Jedi Master
Posts: 1297
Joined: 2002-07-03 08:28pm
Location: aboard the ISD II Broadsword

Post by starfury »

Starglider--I was talking in the upcoming battle when the Harpies will be occupied with the F16s and 18s and 22s
I wonder how much the allied AF will be bulked up with large numbers of Arab and Iranian F-5 and Mig-21 Variants, since the F-22 seems overkill for demons anyway. even with this addition the Baldricks Harpies should have a numerial advantage.
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"-Joseph Stalin

"No plan survives contact with the enemy"-Helmuth Von Moltke

"Women prefer stories about one person dying slowly. Men prefer stories of many people dying quickly."-Niles from Frasier.
Gerald Tarrant
Jedi Knight
Posts: 752
Joined: 2006-10-06 01:21am
Location: socks with sandals

Post by Gerald Tarrant »

Starglider wrote: The lack of area bombing does seem a bit odd, given the pathetically ponderous and relatively densely packed enemy forces. Even if the planes and ordenance available is limited, every enemy unit wiped out before contact reduces the likelihood of a breakthrough at the defence line. My guess is that the human leadership is maximing the shock effect of the attack and that the bombers are on hot standby ready to wipe out any demon forces that break and make a run for it back towards the portal. Another possibility is that all available heavy bombers are being prepared (or at least reserved) for a major airstrike into Hell itself.
I think it could be a couple of things.

We don't really have a good grasp on Baldrick capabilities, adn the limits of their physiology. And while its a safe bet 2000 pound bombs will tear big gaping holes (and craters) in the ranks, it doesn't tell us how many HE-rounds it takes to bring down a Baldrick (for example). And it's a pretty wide upper bound for demonic resilience. And if (Dawkin's forbid) they open up a portal in a Metropolitan area, carpet bombing is more of a thorny problem. Engaging the Baldricks in the open field will probably let war planners get a bit more of a handle on what sort of reaction forces need to be ready if the devils wise up, and hit more vulnerable targets.

Another issue is the Demons have no real idea of human capabilities. If those abilities are shown in bits and pieces the Baldricks might be able to find (primitive) work arounds, or adjust their tactics, or get a good idea of what they're up against. But dropping successively more impressive hammers (armored warfare, then air-mobile, then carpet bombing, etc) out of the blue, on the baldricks heads may leave them stunned and wondering what new magic the humans will unleash next. Magnifying the effectiveness of human arms through shock.

Also I found myself listening to a few varieties of Dies Irae; for some reason it seemed ironically appropriate.
The rain it falls on all alike
Upon the just and unjust fella'
But more upon the just one for
The Unjust hath the Just's Umbrella
User avatar
Stuart
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

Gerald Tarrant wrote: [Another issue is the Demons have no real idea of human capabilities. If those abilities are shown in bits and pieces the Baldricks might be able to find (primitive) work arounds, or adjust their tactics, or get a good idea of what they're up against. But dropping successively more impressive hammers (armored warfare, then air-mobile, then carpet bombing, etc) out of the blue, on the baldricks heads may leave them stunned and wondering what new magic the humans will unleash next. Magnifying the effectiveness of human arms through shock. Also I found myself listening to a few varieties of Dies Irae; for some reason it seemed ironically appropriate.
And Gerald wins the prize. Remember General Petraeus doesn't know what he's up against so he's using economy of force, playing as fw of his cards as he can at any one time. Abigor and the rest have only seen aircraft in the air-to-air role; so far they have no idea what fighter-bombers can do to troops massed in the open. Petraues is playing hearts and his opponent has just led the two of clubs. He isn't going to lay down an ace when a three can do. Its the old economy of force principle in play.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
Firethorn
Youngling
Posts: 89
Joined: 2008-01-19 02:55pm

Post by Firethorn »

Sidewinder wrote:Back to the aluminum helmets idea: the human world may not need it, considering the availability of aluminum foil, but it's easy to imagine a company manufacturing helmets to fill a perceived need
I'd estimate that it would take less than a day to tool up and start stamping out aluminum helmets. I'm even sure they have a helmet made out of aluminum for a prototype somewhere.

Remember, we make computer cases, bicycles, cars, soda cans, wiring, aircraft, spacecraft, among just a small list of things we make out of the metal.
claiming the helmets are made of durable aircraft aluminum and able to defend the wearer's head against physical attacks, e.g., a demon's fangs and claws. Then the government might have to step in to prevent the helmet manufacturer from competing against the aviation industry for aluminum supplies.
It'd be a while before such helmets could affect aircraft production. Still, the general inferiority of aluminum for other things - such as the demon's fangs and claws, would make it less useful. Besides, a helmet liner that doesn't have to be replaced every week and is more comfortable(if of a larger gauge) would actually use less metal over time.
User avatar
Stuart
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

Firethorn wrote: I'd estimate that it would take less than a day to tool up and start stamping out aluminum helmets. I'm even sure they have a helmet made out of aluminum for a prototype somewhere.
Not to my knowledge; remember aluminum is less resistant to bullets than steel; it needs about three times the thickness of aluminum to give the same protection as steel. Most modern helmets are made out of kevlar and offer significantly better protection than steel so going toa luminum would be trading off protection for not very much. Much simpler just to line one's helmet with aluminum foil
It'd be a while before such helmets could affect aircraft production. Still, the general inferiority of aluminum for other things - such as the demon's fangs and claws, would make it less useful. Besides, a helmet liner that doesn't have to be replaced every week and is more comfortable(if of a larger gauge) would actually use less metal over time.
There's an interesting point here by the way - the demonic forces have no idea aluminum exists. Aluminum has been produced in commercial quantities for just over 100 years and it needs serious electricity supplies to be produced on a commercial scale. As late as the mid-19th century, aluminum was considered a precious metal, more valuable than gold (not suprising, aluminum was only known as a pure metal from 1827 onwards). So, hell hasn't a clue what this strange stuff is.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
User avatar
Stuart
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

Stravo wrote:I just want to remind everyone that there is evidence that these bastards can pull WMD style attacks as Sodom and Gomorra
There's a question of scale here. We call mass destruction killing people by the millions (btdtb). If we do the maths based on known population levels of the era, towns of the size of Sodom and Gomorrah probably had a population of between 300 and 400. Most "towns" were little more than fortified farms occupied by an extended family. "Armies" were a couple of thousand people at most, more usually a few tens. Warfare had more in common with gang warfare than what we call warfare. So biblical "WMDs" are really nothing of the sort; we could do better with a machine gun. In reality, brimstone is a pretty feeble weapon, we can do much better. By the way, "fire from the sky" was probably blazing bales of straw fired from a catapult or ballista.

Also, critical point. "demons" are a mythological account "baldricks" are the reality behind that account. So, tthey have some remarkable capabilities but there's a physically plausible reason behind them. They can breath fire - but that's because they use hydrogen to lighten their bodies enough to fly and throwing blazing hydrogen is a good way of using the excess. They can't conjure up weather but they can use the entaglement capability to persuade humans that the weather has changed.
proved as well as if God decides to unleash the angel of death how exactly do you defend against all your first born dying in a single night? I doubt tin foil helmets will do in that case.
"The angel of death" was probably a catastrophic military defeat; the whole book of Exodus is in my NAAHO is simply an account of the last years of the Akhenaten civil war in Egypt. The likely mechanism for an angel of death would be a powerful demon using its entaglement capability to convince its victims they were dying. The shielding of tinfoil stops that dead. Possession is also a function of entaglement so that's being inhibited as well. The scientific victory won by James Randi in his laboratory is vastly more important than the military battle about to be fought in the Iraqi desert.
They may not understand what they're up against just yet but these bastards have magic and we can't even conceive of how it works much less how to defend against spiritual attacks such as possession.
Not really; they think they have magic. The challenge facing humans is to take the tricks one by one, work out what is really going on and come up with a counter. Incantations and conjuring and chanting etc don't work - magic doesn't exist. What does exist are capabilities and processes we don't know about. What we do when we find them is use science to figure them out and either neutralize them or turn them against their owners.

Its science versus magic. Reason and logic versus faith and superstition.

We know magic doesn't work, we can see that the baldricks can do thus and so - how do they do it?
Last edited by Stuart on 2008-02-04 11:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
User avatar
Stuart
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I do want at least one scene with 120~ B-52s fully loaded and in formation cluster-bombing a demon army into oblivion.
Have patience Your Grace - the maintenance and modernization teams are hard at work doing the Big Belly modifications to the B-52Hs and the reconditioned G-models.

By the way, I got the answer to my query on the B-52s at Davis-Monthan. My guess was pretty good; I thought around 20 could be brought back; the actual number is 26. My guess on the F-111s was pretty close as well; the F-models are in pretty good condition, so are the EF-111A Sparkvarks.
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
User avatar
Hawkwings
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3372
Joined: 2005-01-28 09:30pm
Location: USC, LA, CA

Post by Hawkwings »

Promotion by assassinating one’s superiors was a well-known tactic in hell, smiles upon as long as it was successful.
think there's a typo there, should be "smiled".

Also, how powerful are the radars of F-22s? An F-22 could conceivably crank its radar up to full power, dash in, and fry a bunch of harpies.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

Stuart wrote:Have patience Your Grace - the maintenance and modernization teams are hard at work doing the Big Belly modifications to the B-52Hs and the reconditioned G-models.
I thought the structure of the -G and -H models of the BUFF couldn't handle the Big Belly modification due to the different wing structure?
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Post by Junghalli »

Stuart wrote:"The angel of death" was probably a catastrophic military defeat; the whole book of Exodus is in my NAAHO is simply an account of the last years of the Akhenaten civil war in Egypt. The likely mechanism for an angel of death would be a powerful demon using its entaglement capability to convince its victims they were dying.
I figured in-universe it probably actually was one of Yahweh's angels, using the same trick Memnon did. He just used telepathic cloaking to make himself invisible to the Egyptians and went around killing people. It'd be effective and terrifying enough against primitives, and would be consistent with Exodus (the plague knowing to kill only the firstborns, and to skip over any building with a mark of lamb's blood on the door).

As an aside, having to wear a tinfoil hat all the time must be quite annoying for the generals and other important figures. They don't know what the limits of demon telepathy are, so for all they know the second they take it off they could have all their inside knowledge mindfucked out of them, and they've got to figure they're high priority targets for that sort of operation. It'd be a definite psychological strain after a while.
User avatar
Setesh
Jedi Master
Posts: 1113
Joined: 2002-07-16 03:27pm
Location: Maine, land of the Laidback
Contact:

Post by Setesh »

I'm starting to get 'Starship Trooper' flashbacks here (movie and cgi series, not the book, important differences), since that's almost the same kind of battle. A numerically absurd but low tech enemy with limited range and near unstoppable HtH capability vs high tech, long range opponants. Wins for the demons will happen much the same way as the 'bug' wins. Swarm attrition.
It will come down to how long the demons inability to grasp their losing lasts and how fast 'soldier' demons can be produced.

As for the Lucifer/Angel of Death attack idea. One of the Lucifer's throne room scene shows he can pulverize a minor demon with a thought,
Satan glanced sideways and his glance mashed the speaker into a purple pulp that drained away through the stone floor.
So he likely has high end telekinesis, if he really concentrated he could maybe lay waste to a small city in moments but like all their abilities it may (and likely is) limited to line of sight. He would have to come in person. Something that may be a really bad idea if (as the text here and in lore) suggest much of his rule is through fear. If he goes to earth personally some of his stronger generals may decide they want his job.
"Nobody ever inferred from the multiple infirmities of Windows that Bill Gates was infinitely benevolent, omniscient, and able to fix everything. " Argument against god's perfection.

My Snow's art portfolio.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Post by MKSheppard »

Junghalli wrote:As an aside, having to wear a tinfoil hat all the time must be quite annoying for the generals and other important figures. They don't know what the limits of demon telepathy are, so for all they know the second they take it off they could have all their inside knowledge mindfucked out of them, and they've got to figure they're high priority targets for that sort of operation. It'd be a definite psychological strain after a while.
Not really. Just line a room with tinfoil, and you're protected. :) Step inside, take your hat off.

Same principle as faraday cage, et al.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Instant Sunrise
Jedi Knight
Posts: 945
Joined: 2005-05-31 02:10am
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula
Contact:

Post by Instant Sunrise »

You know, I'm beginng to wonder if Heaven is really in a position similar to the League of Nation's when Mussolini invaded Ethiopia. Meaning that Heaven is unable, or unwilling to intervene for fear of destabilizing the celestial status quo.

Not that it would excuse them for allowing it to happen, but that Heaven won't directly act against us, and is just sitting this one out.
Hi, I'm Liz.
Image
SoS: NBA | GALE Force
Twitter
Tumblr
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Post by MKSheppard »

You know I just have this idea of Satan after the coming crushing defeat of his forces, watching the Hitler Channel, and one of it's endless world war II shows; and screaming to his minions

"WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME ABOUT THIS?"
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
brianeyci
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9815
Joined: 2004-09-26 05:36pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Post by brianeyci »

I hope they don't break through the British lines for reasons of plot. I know the demons do have to win, somehow, but it would take hundreds of thousands of charging morons to break through that kind of defense, and eventually numbers would get in the way as their bodies blocked their own advance.

I would rather mass slaughter than the demons winning something impossible to make shit seem "even."

Also, I would think that the demon lines would break. I hope to see some "humanity" -- that is realism in the demons, some demons. They can't all be gung ho no fear of death. Some of them have to be real poeple with real motivations and... real fear.
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

MKSheppard wrote:
Junghalli wrote:As an aside, having to wear a tinfoil hat all the time must be quite annoying for the generals and other important figures. They don't know what the limits of demon telepathy are, so for all they know the second they take it off they could have all their inside knowledge mindfucked out of them, and they've got to figure they're high priority targets for that sort of operation. It'd be a definite psychological strain after a while.
Not really. Just line a room with tinfoil, and you're protected. :) Step inside, take your hat off.

Same principle as faraday cage, et al.
Actually, speaking of a faraday cage, wouldn't anything with an aluminium frame in the appropriate shape and coverage be effective?

And aren't there substances other than aluminium which would work? It's just that aluminium is the cheapest and mostly widely available to modern society.

I could see a French-style Kepi with a neck-flap being highly popular all of a sudden, too, ala the Foreign Legion--you line the inside of the cap and the neck flap with aluminium, with the neck flap giving you extra protection for your brain stem.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

brianeyci wrote:I hope they don't break through the British lines for reasons of plot. I know the demons do have to win, somehow, but it would take hundreds of thousands of charging morons to break through that kind of defense, and eventually numbers would get in the way as their bodies blocked their own advance.
From reading most of his past stories, he's pretty good about not just arbitrarily making "plot events" like that for the hell of it (no pun intended). Fortunately, the British Brigade has that Iranian armored division attached to it now, which gives it a lot more power, and don't forget the airpower that can be concentrated just in case.
Also, I would think that the demon lines would break. I hope to see some "humanity" -- that is realism in the demons, some demons. They can't all be gung ho no fear of death. Some of them have to be real poeple with real motivations and... real fear.
Well, we're already seeing that - some demon commanders are hiding within the ranks, for example. They're all gung-ho now, because ignorance is bliss.
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

I suspect the demons will show us what they're really made of when they're put on the defensive.
User avatar
Stuart Mackey
Drunken Kiwi Editor of the ASVS Press
Posts: 5946
Joined: 2002-07-04 12:28am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Post by Stuart Mackey »

Darth Raptor wrote:I suspect the demons will show us what they're really made of when they're put on the defensive.
Given that they are armed with tridents and their skin is, at best, no better than steel armour, perhaps no better than in the offense?
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"

Jean Omer Marie Gabriel Monnet
--------------
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

Once the Allied Forces of the Material Plane go invading Hell, much of their crippling arrogance and presumptions will have been shocked out of them. They'll cease to politely queue up for the meat grinder and finally begin to adapt and innovate; employing whatever advantages they have with some semblance of sapience.

I'm not saying they'll be successful, mind you, but they might turn the Battle of Dis into Satangrad. The human prisoners of Hell are the real wild card here. If they can be killed on that plane, that may preclude the carpet-nuking bomber sorties.
Locked