Patrick Degan wrote:Look who's talking.
Don't try being clever. It just makes you look even more ridiculous.
No, my "data" is what we see on the fucking movie screen —and it's well established that even novelisations do not trump the actual movies where a contradiction exists or where an issue is in dispute. The book loses and the movie wins.
You have no idea what you are trying to argue, do you? The movie
never contradicts the novelization and
TIE Fighter's claim that the entire Rebel Alliance was present at Endor, thus there is no "trumping," regardless of how much you wish. Thus, you are essentially arguing the rebellion is even smaller than Primus and I say.
Prove the entire Rebellion was not concentrated at the Battle of Endor. Refute the novelization's assertion that
every rebel was present,
now.
If the Rebellion were really as miniscule as you and your playmates are now attempting to argue it, then why should the Empire have even noticed it at all?
Because it's a rebellion. Governments don't like planets trying to secede and senators committing treason. The Rebel Alliance is the single most coherent threat to the Empire, coincidentally lead by notable reactionaries and the son of Anakin Skywalker.
But it is still not the only threat. Long-running regional conflicts need supressing. Grand Admiral Zaarin's coup had to be dealt with. Admiral Rogriss seems to have made a carreer out of civilizing worlds, and Thrawn was sent out to the Unknown Regions to bring it under Imperial rule.
Why should have it taken even a minute of Palpatine's time on any given day to deal with?
It didn't. Palpatine couldn't have cared less about the Rebel Alliance. He certainly deemed the Rebel fleet at Sullust "of no consequence," and he certainly had no interest in the battle unfolding around him.
And if Palpatine was such a genius and his New Order the expression of his brilliance then how was it that it could prove so fragile?
Because the Emperor was what held it together. Moreover, after Endor, the Empire was still almost entirely intact. The Empire only lost territory in any major extent in the Outer Rim, and it only lost control of the Core Worlds (the only part of the galaxy that really mattered in the grand scheme of things) by Palpatine's clandestine sabotage of any attempt to solve the succession crisis. People like Pestage were tasked by the reborn Emperor to bring the Empire down
on purpose.
And if the Rebel Alliance was so insignificant and the New Order so popular (as Primus attempts to argue), then what explains the celebrations over Palpatine's downfall and the hundreds of worlds which flock to the New Republic banner in the months following Endor?
The celebrations witnessed are utterly inconsequential. A few city blocks on the capital on a world of at least a trillion beings, a backwater desert, a single city on a gas world, and Naboo, which even under the Old Republic was barely of any worth.
As for the "hundreds of worlds which flock to the New Republic banner," one really cannot help but point out how pitiful your argument is to somehow expect a few hundred worlds in an empire of at least a milllion is somehow significant, particularly since not a single one of those worlds is a Core World (where the industry, wealth, culture, and people are in the galaxy).
Eight worlds founded the New Republic, Degan.
See for yourself :
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:De ... _page2.JPG
Not only that, but one of those worlds no longer existed, and at least one of the remaining was still under Imperial control.
The Rebellion would have no credibility whatsoever if it were so miniscule that it would compare with the Empire about the same way as the Symbionese Liberation Army would compare to the United States.
Of course not, which is why very few people threw their lot in with the Rebellion. The Empire abandoned many worlds Rimward after Endor, allowing the New Republic to exploit the power vaccuum.
It would never be taken as a serious political force nor a credible enough military threat to justify wide-scale deployments of Imperial fleet assets to put it down.
The Galactic Empire
never committed a significant portion of its force to put down the rebellion. Just look at Death Squadron. At best, it's an oversized Superiority Fleet. Most of the fleet remained in the Galactic Core, in garrison duty, or was deployed to conquer the Unknown Regions or deal with Zaarin's defection.
It would have no credibility as a provisional government to replace Palpatine's New Order.
Which is why it took two years of Imperial civil war, intentional mismanagement, and Palpatine's clandestine sabotage for the Rebels to make any serious inroads.
When the Imperial military finally made a dedicated and coherent response after Grand Admiral Thrawn's return, the New Republic was swept aside in a year. Thrawn alone reconquered a quarter of the Empire in a few months, the Imperial Coalition after him drove the counterrevolutionaries off Coruscant, and Operation Shadowhand retook almost the entire galaxy.
That and the loss of the shield generator on the surface of Endor which allowed the Millenium Falcon and Wedge Antilles' squadron to make their attack on the Death Star power core. You also conveniently skip over the fact that at the time of that attack, Palpatine was too busy making Luke suffer a protracted death to actually be bothered with the battle.
And? The loss of the first Death Star certainly did not bring the Empire crashing down. Or do you think the Emperor would not have actually made it off the station? Luke Skywalker was able to escape after dragging his half-dead father along and stopping to let him die. Why would the Emperor not have been able to if Vader had never turned (in which case, Luke would have been dead before long)? Thrawn even theorizes it was the Emperor's death that caused the last-minute starfighter incompetence that allowed the Rebels to even get into the Death Star.
I know you think you're leading up to a point.
How cute, you're convinced you haven't made yourself a laughing stock.
We all know that. Vader referred specifically to a large fleet massing at Sullust but does not state it is the entire strength of the Rebellion at that point in space.
No, but the novelization is quite explicit about that.
You're joking, right? A computer game? Which sets up a wholly artificial scenario for purposes of the game and whose outcome is always up for grabs? A scenario which can vary so wildly that it cannot be taken as accurate for anything? This is your "canon" source of support for your "argument"? You do realise that computer games are secondary, don't you? They don't even enjoy the same status as C-level material for rather obvious reasons.
Plot is still canon, and it has yet to be contradicted by any source. Only the game mechanics are not c-canon.
Sorry, movie trumps everything else. Always will. Deal with it.
You will now cite the movie that shows that the entire rebellion was
not amassing at Sullust, and that the novelization and
TIE Fighter are in fact incorrect on the matter. I expect evidence for a change, Degan. You will either demonstrate that the movies prove that the totality of the Rebel Alliance was not present, or I will immediately accept your concession of the fact.
Your puerile arguing ends now, Degan. No more ignoring other peoples' responses. No more ignoring canonical statements. Present your evidence or admit you are wrong. You've stalled and lied far too long.
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."
Seriously, no other star wars game since has really managed to capture the feel of these two classics, not even X-Wing:Alliance.
