Elves and Camoflauge?

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-20 09:48am

Anyone read the books recently so we know how far away they heard Gimli breathing?

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-01-20 10:09am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Anyone read the books recently so we know how far away they heard Gimli breathing?

In the book the elves heard Legolas singing over river Nimrodel, but the book makes no mention of the actual distance (Nimrodel is a small river).
Gimli's breathing is not mentioned in the book.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-20 11:15am

Sir Sirius wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:Anyone read the books recently so we know how far away they heard Gimli breathing?
In the book the elves heard Legolas singing over river Nimrodel, but the book makes no mention of the actual distance (Nimrodel is a small river).
Gimli's breathing is not mentioned in the book.

K. Thanks.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-20 01:01pm

Yeah I think American Rangers can trace there roots back to rodgers Rangers who faught in the French and Indian war

m112880 · Post by **m112880** » 2003-01-20 01:16pm

[/quote]United States Ranger Squad, The Elite of the Elite, Better than any other branch of service's Special Action units,

The Rangers are far from being the best. The army Green Berats are far better along with the British SAS. Both units have far more experance and can do more jobs. The Rangers are train for fast assult missions while both the SAS and Green Berats are train to influtate do the job and leave with out being found and they are trained to operate in smaller numbers. They can also be used to train forigen troops so that US forces dont have to get involved such as in Afganishan.
The Navy Seals are trained along the same lines as the rangers.

So the Rangers would not stand a chance against the Elves while the SAS and Green Barets might stand a chance.

Shadow Walker · Post by **Shadow Walker** » 2003-01-20 01:17pm

Going back to the original question, I say Elves would have just as much trouble picking out people wearing camouflage that anyone else would. Ghillie suits exspiecially. They include natural vegetation from the area and totally break up the user's outline. You could be 5 feet from a skilled person in a ghilie suit and not notice them.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-20 01:25pm

Shadow Walker wrote:Going back to the original question, I say Elves would have just as much trouble picking out people wearing camouflage that anyone else would. Ghillie suits exspiecially. They include natural vegetation from the area and totally break up the user's outline. You could be 5 feet from a skilled person in a ghilie suit and not notice them.

Keep in mind that there's an uneven burden here. The effective range of a longbow is nowhere near the effective range of a sniper rifle. A competent sniper can put one between your eyes at 800 metres.

This means that in order to avoid getting hit, the elf must evade detection starting at a MUCH greater distance than his modern counterpart. If the elf spots his modern counterpart a kilometre away, it doesn't do him much good, but if a good sniper spots the elf with his handy thermal-imaging goggles at that range, you've got a dead elf.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-20 01:27pm

Anyone read the books recently so we know how far away they heard Gimli breathing?

Well the elves would probably hear a bunch of numbers being said quietly aload, follow a minute later by a whisling sound, and then (if their lucky) a very large explosion from a JDAM.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-20 01:29pm

You know, if we want to make this a little fair we should give the elves sniper rifles and training too you know.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-01-20 02:04pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:Keep in mind that there's an uneven burden here. The effective range of a longbow is nowhere near the effective range of a sniper rifle. A competent sniper can put one between your eyes at 800 metres.

You don't get that kind of ranges in a forest environment.
Elves get magic this is more than an equalizer.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-20 02:12pm

Thunderfire wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote:Keep in mind that there's an uneven burden here. The effective range of a longbow is nowhere near the effective range of a sniper rifle. A competent sniper can put one between your eyes at 800 metres.
You don't get that kind of ranges in a forest environment.

Which is why the sniper will seek the high ground instead of wandering around the forest!

Elves get magic this is more than an equalizer.

Justify your claim that elven magic will overcome technological magic. Killing a man from 2.4 km away with the twitch of a finger is technological magic; can the elves do that?

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-01-20 03:38pm

AdmiralKanos wrote: Justify your claim that elven magic will overcome technological magic. Killing a man from 2.4 km away with the twitch of a finger is technological magic; can the elves do that?

D&D Elves possess Deathstar level firepower. They used magic to
destroy the goblinoid world of Borka.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-20 03:39pm

Thunderfire wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: Justify your claim that elven magic will overcome technological magic. Killing a man from 2.4 km away with the twitch of a finger is technological magic; can the elves do that?
D&D Elves possess Deathstar level firepower. They used magic to
destroy the goblinoid world of Borka.

I don't think uber-level magic is supposed to count in this situation. A cop-out of sorts.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-20 04:02pm

Thunderfire wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: Justify your claim that elven magic will overcome technological magic. Killing a man from 2.4 km away with the twitch of a finger is technological magic; can the elves do that?
D&D Elves possess Deathstar level firepower. They used magic to
destroy the goblinoid world of Borka.

Congratulations on shamelessly trying to change the subject. Since everyone else here has been talking about LOTR elves, perhaps you should have gotten the hint.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-20 04:11pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Elves would be screwed if everyone else started wearing patten 44 SS
camo.

IIRC, one of the demos that used to be shown in basic training was
to have a guy stand at 1,000 yards in a white shirt. Was easily
visible. Guy then puts on a green shirt, and he becomes that
much harder to spot.
*Gives Elves thermal-imaging goggles*

Why, they already HAVE that, built in their genes....

Yup they see thermal images, naturally, have Hawk like telescopic vision.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-01-20 05:26pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:
Thunderfire wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: Justify your claim that elven magic will overcome technological magic. Killing a man from 2.4 km away with the twitch of a finger is technological magic; can the elves do that?
D&D Elves possess Deathstar level firepower. They used magic to
destroy the goblinoid world of Borka.
Congratulations on shamelessly trying to change the subject. Since everyone else here has been talking about LOTR elves, perhaps you should have gotten the hint.

Isn't it sad how people keep trying shell games and other transparent tactics against Wong after he's squashed them thousands of times?

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-01-20 05:55pm

AdmiralKanos wrote: Congratulations on shamelessly trying to change the subject. Since everyone else here has been talking about LOTR elves, perhaps you should have gotten the hint.

The original question says DnD & LOTR elves. D&D elves are really
good at magic. If LOTR elves haves spells like invisibility, phase,
wormhole, teleport then the results will be the same - alot of dead
mundane soldiers.

Morat · Post by **Morat** » 2003-01-21 12:56am

As I understood the original post, the contest was about which side would spot the other first. The range of their weapons is irrelevant.

Also, to address a point that was mentioned much earlier in the thread (which I haven't been able to find again), I'd like to say that elves are not out of their element in snowy terrain. When the Noldor elves first came to Middle Earth, the area where they landed was covered in ice and snow.

Going back to the original question, I say Elves would have just as much trouble picking out people wearing camouflage that anyone else would. Ghillie suits exspiecially. They include natural vegetation from the area and totally break up the user's outline. You could be 5 feet from a skilled person in a ghilie suit and not notice them.

LOTR elves do pretty well in that respect also. A party of soldiers from Rohan come very close to the Fellowship (who are wearing Elven cloaks) and do not notice them until Aragorn reveals himself.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-21 01:45am

Coaan wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:
What Rangers? The yankee special forces kind, B5 Mimbari pricks with them sticks, Dunadan from Middle-Earth or what, there are numerous different types of rangers?
United States Ranger Squad, The Elite of the Elite, Better than any other branch of service's Special Action units,

And ps, Foot-prints only matter if your following somone not if your trying to sneak up on somone(Which Rangers are well equiped and trained to do)
LMAO! Why is it that Every special forces unit that America has seems to be a knockoff of a certain unit the british have called the SBS...

Given that most of them predate the SBS. No.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-21 01:55am

Vympel wrote:Give me a Canadian sniper and I'll give you a dead elf.

Canada has snipers? Seriously, elves have good camo... Read the book, Merry and Pippin went unnoticed when they wore an elf cloak...

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-01-21 02:06am

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote: Isn't it sad how people keep trying shell games and other transparent tactics against Wong after he's squashed them thousands of times?

Well munane forces have been squashed by magical forces "thousand"
times on this board.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 02:11am

Thunderfire wrote:The original question says DnD & LOTR elves.

OK, but people have been talking about LOTR elves, and frankly, far more people are interested in LOTR elves than D&D elves. To lump them together is stupid, because they aren't the same. Either the person who started the post was thinking of D&D elves on par with LOTR elves or he was simply nuts to think of them as the same thing. You know perfectly well that we've been talking about elves with LOTR-level abilities, not some obscure planet-killing elf variant.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 02:13am

Exonerate wrote:
Vympel wrote:Give me a Canadian sniper and I'll give you a dead elf.
Canada has snipers?

He's making reference to the guy who scored a confirmed kill at 2.43km in Afghanistan. Reach out and touch someone ...

Seriously, elves have good camo... Read the book, Merry and Pippin went unnoticed when they wore an elf cloak...

Their enemy was not using thermal imaging.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 02:14am

Thunderfire wrote:Well munane forces have been squashed by magical forces "thousand" times on this board.

If in doubt, simply declare that your side always wins. Good tactic

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-21 04:01am

Actually, WHERE have mundane forces been defeated by 'magical' forces?

All I need to crush helm's deep without any effort is any force from the mid-1400s onward thanks.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Elves and Camoflauge?

Re: Actually.....