Stolen Organs or Your Life?

Twoyboy · Post by **Twoyboy** » 2008-02-08 10:01am

There was a story on ninemsn today (crappy news site, I know) about stolen organs and then a poll which asked "Would you accept a stolen organ to save your life?". The result so far: 23,578 - Yes, 34,838 - No.

What the fuck? Now, don't get me wrong, I think what these guys did is detestable, but if I were dying, and this was my only hope, I'd slide my morals to one side and live. Feel free to call me a horrible person, but I really thought that most people would feel the same way, if they were truly honest with themselves.

So what's the deal? Are these people not being honest with themselves? Or am I not giving people enough credit and I really am a scum sucking son of a whore?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-02-08 10:10am

If only it won't get repossessed.

alexholker · Post by **alexholker** » 2008-02-08 10:11am

I would not. An innocent person should not be forced to suffer for my benefit. I know that if the positions were reversed, I would never forgive the person who was paying people to attack innocent people and steal their organs.

alexholker · Post by **alexholker** » 2008-02-08 10:12am

[Ghetto Edit] Paying or otherwise encouraging, that is.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-02-08 10:36am

Yes. I'd accept it for a family member as well, even though it's detestable, illegal, etc'.
Life is a higher value. (And I support stem-cell research so we can grow our own organs, thank you very much

)

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2008-02-08 10:38am

I'd accept the transplant and then turn the guy in. I have no problem with having my cake and eating it too.

Ryan Thunder · Post by **Ryan Thunder** » 2008-02-08 10:52am

I'm not sure. Presumably the one the organs are stolen from is already dead, right? So I'm not doing him any further disservice by receiving it.

Then, turn the fucker in.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-02-08 11:01am

alexholker wrote:I would not. An innocent person should not be forced to suffer for my benefit. I know that if the positions were reversed, I would never forgive the person who was paying people to attack innocent people and steal their organs.

You remind me of the wankers who say things like "Death before dishonour" or "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees". It's easy to be brave when facing hypothetical death from behind a keyboard, but if you were staring down the real thing, I'd like to see how you'd react.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-02-08 11:27am

If these people were paid rather than kidnapped and drugged, I would readily take the organ. I would prefer having a system in place anyway. Honestly, in a case like this, do you really think that people are going to say "why yes, I was paid for my organs" no, they are going to say they were stolen.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-08 11:30am

Presumably the person is already dead. What you need to do is take the organ, then turn the guy in to the police. That's the most reasonable course of action.

People who buy stolen organs en masse are the ones who should be targeted if there's any progress to be made, the traders of the thing and the kidnappers and murderers.

As for you the client, I'd live but quite probably agree to serve my time in jail for being an accomplice in a criminal act.

alexholker · Post by **alexholker** » 2008-02-08 11:32am

Should I lie, then, to appease some foul-mouthed Canadian's belief that everyone in the world feels exactly the same way that he does? Would that make you feel better?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-02-08 11:35am

alexholker wrote:Should I lie, then, to appease some foul-mouthed Canadian's belief that everyone in the world feels exactly the same way that he does? Would that make you feel better?

OK fine, since you used the devastating "point out my nationality and my disregard for etiquette" attack, I have no choice but to concede that you must be telling the truth: you're so brave, you would face death without blinking an eye, you big macho brave American. I'm in awe of your courage, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2008-02-08 11:42am

If you took the organs and then turned the guy in to the police, would you be complicit in the crime, sort of like if someone offered you a stolen diamond and you took it and then turned him in? I'm not familiar with the legalities involved.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-02-08 11:49am

Darth Wong wrote:You're so brave, you would face death without blinking an eye, you big macho brave American. I'm in awe of your courage, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.

I think I have an erection.

Hrm. Some very principled people might refuse these kinds of transplants, especially if they've had enough time to think it over. An interesting juxtaposition of the OT would be...would you accept stolen organs to save the life of a loved one?

Now that's a really difficult and uneasy question.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-02-08 12:12pm

Darth Wong wrote:
alexholker wrote:Should I lie, then, to appease some foul-mouthed Canadian's belief that everyone in the world feels exactly the same way that he does? Would that make you feel better?
OK fine, since you used the devastating "point out my nationality and my disregard for etiquette" attack, I have no choice but to concede that you must be telling the truth: you're so brave, you would face death without blinking an eye, you big macho brave American. I'm in awe of your courage, Mr. Keyboard Warrior.

*psst* He's Australian... Not much better I suppose in terms of macho, but still...

As for the modification to the OP... sure. So long as my relative didnt know the organs were stolen, and especially if I had plausible deniability.

Of course, if you are under duress, I dont think a grand jury in the world would vote to indite, let alone get a jury to convict...

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 2008-02-08 12:42pm

alexholker wrote:Should I lie, then, to appease some foul-mouthed Canadian's belief that everyone in the world feels exactly the same way that he does? Would that make you feel better?

Mike's point is perfectly correct; its very easy to make noble-sounding speeches from behind the safety of a keyboard when the issue does not affect you directly. When you face the reality of a decision and its your life hanging on a thread - or the availability of a dodgedly-obtained kidney - then you will almost certainly suddenly find exceptions to your noble viewpoints. Just for this one case of course. It happens all the time. I can think of one set of parents who were deeply involved in anti-racist non-discrimination posturing possible for years - until their son started dating (and started living with) a black woman. Sudden, immediate flip to the dark side "we won't have that n****r in our house."

By the way, you are lying, only the person you're lying to is yourself, not us. If you are honest with yourself, your reply would have been "I don't know what I'd do. I hope I'd refuse but I don't think I would."

Nobody knows the answer to this type of question until the reality of it hits them in the face. If somebody told me that I'd die without a transplant and there's a perfectly-matched donor next door I strongly suspect my next words would be to the cleaning lady "How much to plug your floor-polisher into the socket used by his life support?"

NoXion · Post by **NoXion** » 2008-02-08 12:44pm

Well, I'd like to think that it would rather depend on the exact provenance of the organ in question. If it was taken from an already dead person without permission, then I would accept it. The story changes if they had to kill the person to give me the organ or if the organ removal is not fatal to the donor and took it anyway. The I would like to hope I would be considerably less willing to accept it. The thing is, I have no idea how I would actually act having never been in such a situation before.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-02-08 12:52pm

NoXion wrote:[...]The thing is, I have no idea how I would actually act having never been in such a situation before.

Quite so. I very much doubt that over half the population would really rather die than accept stolen organs. Maybe some would be unable to live with themselves afterwards, I don't know, but it is definitely a minority that are willing to die for their beliefs.

For example, JWs profess that they would rather die than accept blood transfusions, but most will in fact not go through with this. The deaths regarding JW blood transfusions are mostly those who would rather kill their kids, not those who would rather die themselves.

Resinence · Post by **Resinence** » 2008-02-08 12:55pm

In a second. I'd like to say I wouldn't be so selfish but I know that if it comes down to me or some person I don't know than I'll choose me. Maybe I could get over the guild (doubtful), but you can't "get over" being dead.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-02-08 01:14pm

Does anyone with statistics know how many JWs accept blood transfusions when they (not their kids) are on the verge of death?

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2008-02-08 01:29pm

Accept it and spend the rest of my life hating myself for it.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2008-02-08 01:33pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hrm. Some very principled people might refuse these kinds of transplants, especially if they've had enough time to think it over. An interesting juxtaposition of the OT would be...would you accept stolen organs to save the life of a loved one?

Now that's a really difficult and uneasy question.

If I were sure the organ was compatible? Yes to me, and probably yes to RI or a member of my immediate family. I like to think it would depend on the circumstances of the theft, but if my boyfriend or my dad or my sister were dying, I really don't think I'd care.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-02-08 01:35pm

Every single day, people die to keep us in our comfort zone that we call First World living. The only difference here, is that you're more personally involved here, rather than enjoying a new pair of trainers made by kids in sweatshops, or eating food that only earns the shithole based farmer a pittance wage.

When your life is on the line directly, no shit solid cold fact, then it's surprising how quickly people switch over to self-preservation mode. Oh sure, there are some genuine saints out there who would rather suffer eternal torment before they acquiesce to survival instinct, but they are not the majority of the public. Very rarely do we consider the strangers on the street when standard etiquette is involved, to say nothing of when it's you or them.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2008-02-08 01:45pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Oh sure, there are some genuine saints out there who would rather suffer eternal torment before they acquiesce to survival instinct, but they are not the majority of the public. Very rarely do we consider the strangers on the street when standard etiquette is involved, to say nothing of when it's you or them.

I would suggest that an extension to this is that the people who act noble and defiant and stride into the face of avoidable harm are generally either young and stupid or zealots.

Vaporous · Post by **Vaporous** » 2008-02-08 02:03pm

Dillon wrote:Accept it and spend the rest of my life hating myself for it.

Guilt doesn't make an action more or less moral, so no point in making yourself feel worse to make yourself feel better. Face it- most people would take the organ, and they'd be right to do it.

As for turning the guy in afterward, lets not deceive ourselves. You get that kidney or what have you, and then you never see those people again, because they'll be gone. Saying you'd turn in the criminal (only after he benefited you) just to assuage your guilt over caring about staying alive is ridiculous.

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Stolen Organs or Your Life?

Would you accept a stolen organ if you required a transplant?

Stolen Organs or Your Life?