AMA suppressing a cure for cancer?

[Sidewinder]

My father, an acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicines specialist, has a VERY NEGATIVE view of Western medical care providers. He often warns me that my psychologist and psychiatrist may have ulterior motives in treating me, e.g., using me as a guinea pig, even though I receive free treatment from the VA.

To drive the point home, he told me something that one of his patients told him, about an unnamed scientist who, in the 1920s, invented an OPTICAL microscope that could magnify objects by 60,000 and allow him to see viruses. This scientist supposedly theorized that some forms of cancer were caused by viruses, and to test this theory, infected several lab mice with an unspecified virus, causing all the mice to develop cancer. This scientist then developed an unspecified technique to cure all the mice of cancer.

The scientist moved on to human trials and used this technique to cure terminally ill patients of their cancer. The instruments used for the cure was relatively cheap, compared to the drugs used in chemotherapy or the instruments used in radiotherapy. The American Medical Association, realizing the availability of such a cancer cure would cut into its members' profits, denounced the scientist and his cancer cure. (This reminds me of the conspiracy theory at the core of the plot of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.) The lab where the scientist's instruments was destroyed by arson, and the scientist assassinated in a hospital in the 1970s, when the doctors/nurses there simultaneously gave him Valium and alcohol.

My father sincerely believed the story. I believe it's just a conspiracy theory, like the story that a cruise missile was responsible for the damage to the Pentagon in the 9/11 Terror Attacks, i.e., it's BULLSHIT. Comments from people familiar with the US medical industry?

[wjs7744]

Conspiracy theory. Such a powerful light microscope is not physically possible. Also requires the UK, Germany, Canada, Spain, etc. to be in on it. Basically, it requires you to believe that the AMA has control over all medical research in the world.

[Admiral Valdemar]

To drive the point home, he told me something that one of his patients told him, about an unnamed scientist who, in the 1920s, invented an OPTICAL microscope that could magnify objects by 60,000 and allow him to see viruses.

Bullshit.

This scientist supposedly theorized that some forms of cancer were caused by viruses, and to test this theory, infected several lab mice with an unspecified virus, causing all the mice to develop cancer. This scientist then developed an unspecified technique to cure all the mice of cancer.

Great. For the cancers caused by viruses, which are few and far between with only cervical cancer being actively defended against via the microbiological vaccine approach. What about every other damn cancer caused by mutations to the p53 gene and similar cellular machinery?

The scientist moved on to human trials and used this technique to cure terminally ill patients of their cancer. The instruments used for the cure was relatively cheap, compared to the drugs used in chemotherapy or the instruments used in radiotherapy. The American Medical Association, realizing the availability of such a cancer cure would cut into its members' profits, denounced the scientist and his cancer cure. (This reminds me of the conspiracy theory at the core of the plot of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.) The lab where the scientist's instruments was destroyed by arson, and the scientist assassinated in a hospital in the 1970s, when the doctors/nurses there simultaneously gave him Valium and alcohol.

My father sincerely believed the story. I believe it's just a conspiracy theory, like the story that a cruise missile was responsible for the damage to the Pentagon in the 9/11 Terror Attacks, i.e., it's BULLSHIT. Comments from people familiar with the US medical industry?

Americans + conspiracy = hilarity.

Given the prevalence of cancer and the emerging biologic industry growing at something like 25% annually in order to combat such diseases, anyone who found a catch-all cure for cancer has just become the richest person in history.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

My father, an acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicines specialist, has a VERY NEGATIVE view of Western medical care providers. He often warns me that my psychologist and psychiatrist may have ulterior motives in treating me, e.g., using me as a guinea pig, even though I receive free treatment from the VA.

To drive the point home, he told me something that one of his patients told him, about an unnamed scientist who, in the 1920s, invented an OPTICAL microscope that could magnify objects by 60,000 and allow him to see viruses. This scientist supposedly theorized that some forms of cancer were caused by viruses, and to test this theory, infected several lab mice with an unspecified virus, causing all the mice to develop cancer. This scientist then developed an unspecified technique to cure all the mice of cancer.

The scientist moved on to human trials and used this technique to cure terminally ill patients of their cancer. The instruments used for the cure was relatively cheap, compared to the drugs used in chemotherapy or the instruments used in radiotherapy. The American Medical Association, realizing the availability of such a cancer cure would cut into its members' profits, denounced the scientist and his cancer cure. (This reminds me of the conspiracy theory at the core of the plot of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.) The lab where the scientist's instruments was destroyed by arson, and the scientist assassinated in a hospital in the 1970s, when the doctors/nurses there simultaneously gave him Valium and alcohol.

My father sincerely believed the story. I believe it's just a conspiracy theory, like the story that a cruise missile was responsible for the damage to the Pentagon in the 9/11 Terror Attacks, i.e., it's BULLSHIT. Comments from people familiar with the US medical industry?

Yes, this is complete bullshit. This story is fairly well-known in the quack world. The person in question was named Royal Rife. He built five microscopes, two of which still exist. Neither of them actually worked, and there's no evidence that they'd ever been used to make photographs, nor does anything about their design lend itself to such fantastic claims of performance. (The story of the Rife microscopes by itself should set off alarm bells. The surviving examples were allegedly sabotaged to prevent them from falling into the "wrong hands.")

Rife claimed to have invented a cure for diseases, such as cancer, which used a "beam ray" to induce destructive "harmonics" in the chemical components of pathogens. (i.e. every pathogen has a frequency at which it can be killed.) Unsurprisingly, there is no evidence this machine ever worked. There was a revival of interest in the man's work by charlatans and snake-oil salesmen in the 1980s who built and marketed these "beam-ray" devices. These folks spent time in prison for making false claims, and it's been shown that the devices actually kill people, because those people ceased their conventional treatments.

[Sidewinder]

Americans + conspiracy = hilarity.

My father's Chinese. Of course, the fact that he was gullible enough to believe a conspiracy theorist, despite his own medical background, is alarming.

[General Zod]

My father's Chinese. Of course, the fact that he was gullible enough to believe a conspiracy theorist, despite his own medical background, is alarming.

Acupuncture is hardly a mainstream medical background.

[Admiral Valdemar]

My father's Chinese. Of course, the fact that he was gullible enough to believe a conspiracy theorist, despite his own medical background, is alarming.

The theory itself, though, is American and your father is, unfortunately, falling into the abyss of ignorance many Americans make for themselves when believing such tripe. The idea of a microscope that powerful using such optics; a convenient cure for all forms of cancer; the overarching power of the AMA over international commerce and independent research. None of these factors speak well for anyone who believes them, and I imagine your father, given his profession, is more than happy to fall for such claims.

I've see it personally before with someone whose mother -- a former nurse -- went and started a homoeopathy clinic. Sad case.

[Superman]

Goddamn, that's a whole lot of bullshit.

Don't take this wrong way Sidewinder, but I'm not sure an "acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicines specialist" is quite the same as having an actual background in medicine. Also, one thing I'm realizing is that people who hate psychiatry tend to be people who need its services the most.

[Darth Wong]

You people are all buying into western science propaganda! Don't you know that the cure for cancer was indeed suppressed by the US government? The evidence is kept in a huge warehouse full of wooden crates. It's right next to another crate marked "200 mpg carburetor", which in turn is right next to a mysterious crate that was apparently left by someone named "Dr. Jones".

[Admiral Valdemar]

Aside from always wishing that warehouse existed so I could go at it like a kid in a proverbial candy shop, that does remind me of a certain Stonecutter's song.

[Superman]

If this person actually cared to know exactly what the AMA is, he would see how silly this notion of them suppressing anything is. It's basically a loosely knit group that publishes a newsletter. Presently, only about 19% of the practicing physicians in the US are actual members. Think about what he's claiming, and then consider that less than 1/4 of the doctors in the States are suppressing the goddamned cure for cancer. This is beyond silly.

Here is a source for that number.

Linky

[Superman]

I can't seem to get this link to work. I have an account, but I didn't think it was required to read this. Here is the page.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealt ... nt/tb/3516

Can a mod fix this? Sorry...

[Zixinus]

My father's Chinese. Of course, the fact that he was gullible enough to believe a conspiracy theorist, despite his own medical background, is alarming.

I hardly consider traditional Chinese medicine a proper medical background, no offence to your father. Last I checked, it was about putting needles into something that didn't exist and didn't involve learning very much biology. The fact that there is a quite discrediting article on the Sceptic's dictionary doesn't help his case either. http://www.skepdic.com/acupunc.html

People in the crackpot industry love to spread legends like these in order to make their costumers distrust proper medical care.

[Broomstick]

OK, fine, someone has a cancer cure that costs $1/dose and works on all varieties. Why not sell it?

After all, heart disease, diabetes, genetic problems, accidents, infections, etc. will still be around for docs to profit from.

[Starglider]

Aside from always wishing that warehouse existed so I could go at it like a kid in a proverbial candy shop

You might like this then.

[Rye]

Start up your own conspiracy theory in response; say acupuncturists and traditionalist healers are in cahoots, they're avoiding healing patients completely so that they'll be forced to come back and spend more money. What's more is they're overcharging since anyone can do it, more or less and the acupuncturists and traditionalists herbalists are just keeping the "cure all illness" chakra and the "cure all illness garlic derivative" secret from the general public.

[Sidewinder]

Conspiracy theory. Such a powerful light microscope is not physically possible. Also requires the UK, Germany, Canada, Spain, etc. to be in on it. Basically, it requires you to believe that the AMA has control over all medical research in the world.

I just pointed out the holes you punched in the conspiracy theory, along with the fact that people treated by Royal Rife's technique died when they could've been treated by chemotherapy/radiotherapy, to my father. He said I needed to gather more information on this, i.e., he still thinks it's plausible the AMA is suppressing a cancer cure so its members could continue to profit from chemotherapy/radiotherapy. I'm disappointed, but I shouldn't have been surprised-- my father often dismisses my mental health problems as minor problems I can solve on my own.

[Superman]

I just pointed out the holes you punched in the conspiracy theory, along with the fact that people treated by Royal Rife's technique died when they could've been treated by chemotherapy/radiotherapy, to my father. He said I needed to gather more information on this, i.e., he still thinks it's plausible the AMA is suppressing a cancer cure so its members could continue to profit from chemotherapy/radiotherapy. I'm disappointed, but I shouldn't have been surprised-- my father often dismisses my mental health problems as minor problems I can solve on my own.

You probably have about as much chance of enlightening him as a biologist has showing a creationist why creationism is bullshit. The fact is he doesn't want to know the truth.

Get help if you have mental problems. If you're in college, you can get it from the campus. There are always options.

[wjs7744]

I just pointed out the holes you punched in the conspiracy theory, along with the fact that people treated by Royal Rife's technique died when they could've been treated by chemotherapy/radiotherapy, to my father. He said I needed to gather more information on this, i.e., he still thinks it's plausible the AMA is suppressing a cancer cure so its members could continue to profit from chemotherapy/radiotherapy. I'm disappointed, but I shouldn't have been surprised-- my father often dismisses my mental health problems as minor problems I can solve on my own.

If you want more problems with the theory, there's the fact that virii are pretty much by their very nature contagious, yet cancer is not; it is caused by chemical or radiation damage to cells, neither of which can cause virii to spontaneously appear. Really, the only similarity between them I can think of is that they both cause health problems. However, I'm sorry to say that it sounds like your father doesn't really have much actual medical knowledge. If he really doesn't want to know the truth, like Superman says, I'm afraid I don't think you will convince him.

[Zixinus]

He said I needed to gather more information on this, i.e., he still thinks it's plausible the AMA is suppressing a cancer cure so its members could continue to profit from chemotherapy/radiotherapy.

Compare how much does it costs to produce the equipment and medicine of said chemotherapy and radiotherapy and how much does an overall treatment costs. Look at how much money goes to maintaining the machines, buying the medicine, caring for the patient and how much of that money goes to the doctors.

Then do the same thing with a acupuncturist and/or herbal healer.

There was also that neat video with Richard Dawkins.

However, I doubt he will change his opinion. He already LIVES (financially speaking mostly) based on the idea that his "medicine" works.

You could just mention that acupuncture and herbal medicine doesn't heal cancer either.

[PainRack]

He should also mention that since doctors, nurses, radiotherapists expose themselves to dangerous radiation and toxic drugs, show them the increased rate of leukemia amongst radiotherapists, the dangers of exposure to chemotoxic drugs and disposal including cancer, and since most nurses are female, the risks of deformed fetus or abortion, he must be crazy to believe that doctors and the rest of the medical profession will willingly expose themselves to such dangers so that they can make a few more paltry dollars.

[Scottish Ninja]

My response to any suggestion that "Big Pharma" or "the Medical Establishment" is suppressing a cheap, simple, and natural (and thus unpatentable; the line then is that they don't want it because it wouldn't be profitable, ignoring all the drugs that have been developed from natural sources - aspirin being a big example) cancer cure is to point out that pharmaceutical companies don't perform the whole of medical research, and that there would be plenty of universities, both in the US and abroad, and governments, particular foreign governments, who would all absolutely love to be able to say that they were the ones who cured cancer and enjoy the accompanying prestige. I'd be willing to bet there would be companies who would jump at this chance, as well, and damn the losses.

Of course, this doesn't ever convince anyone, but it's entertaining to watch people struggle to weave ever-more complicated conspiracies as they try and dodge logic.

[Sidewinder]

Get help if you have mental problems. If you're in college, you can get it from the campus. There are always options.

Thank you for your concern. I am getting psychological and psychiatric help from the VA. I am making improvements, but they're coming along at a snail's pace.

[The Vortex Empire]

Is there even a way to cure cancer? From my knowledge, cancer is usually caused by an error in Cellular Replication that stops cell division regulation genes from working, causing the cell and it's descendants to divide uncontrollably. Curing that would take some kind of new failsafe in the human genome.

[PainRack]

Is there even a way to cure cancer? From my knowledge, cancer is usually caused by an error in Cellular Replication that stops cell division regulation genes from working, causing the cell and it's descendants to divide uncontrollably. Curing that would take some kind of new failsafe in the human genome.

You just need to prevent people from dying of cancer. Surgical removal is the easiest way.