Ms Traviss redeems herself (spoilers, LotF:Revelation)

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2008-02-09 12:34pm

Well, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but Pellaeon was one of my absolute favorite characters. A total-hard ass. He's ancient and just as hard to kill as any Skywalker, Boba Fett, or reborn Emperor... though that's obviously changed now.

After Mara's death and now this, they're sucking all the good characters out. I'd prefer to see Leia die, to be quite honest.

And as for the Crystal Star, I do believe that Jedi Trial might equal it in the pure shit o'meter's rankings.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-02-09 01:09pm

000 wrote:Big ol' spoilers below...

So, Pellaeon (finally) dies. In Revelation. How, you ask? Old age?

Nope. He gets shot. In the back. By a schizophrenic barefoot blonde Vong-Tusken-Jedi bimbo.

Also, did you hear the one about Daala materializing out of nowhere, kidnapping Pelly's corpse, and running away with it to join the Mandalorians?

Yeah, I hear it was pretty great.

In other news, the Moffs of the Remnant allied with the ex-Jacester against the fishwoman in their recent lover's tiff, but I'm sure Soontir and Jaina'll straighten them out.

Um.. Can I get a non-sarcastic explanation of this, as I'm not following all of it?

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-02-09 01:23pm

Tahiri shot Pellaeon in the back, who was immediately scooped up by Daala, who in turn raced off to join the Mandalorians.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2008-02-09 01:31pm

She has a vile Mandalorian addiction which can only be solved by tell her to kick the bucket as soon as possible.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-02-09 02:19pm

So, did Jaina become a Mandalorian as we feared? Like havokeff, I would also like to ask for serious explanation for all of this. Why did the Vong/Tusken/Jedi (I can't believe there's such a fucking thing

) girl assassinate Pellaeon? Is an event portrayed in a way that goes along with Traviss's stated (and ridiculous) opinions that the Jedi are a bunch of assholes?

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-02-09 03:53pm

Tahiri is 28 years old, she's not really a "girl".

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-02-09 05:05pm

Pellaeon's a capable leader because of his experience, right? I don't recall him ever getting his memories copied onto a computer-- do they even have such technology in the 'Star Wars' universe?-- so clones of him would be unlikely to have his strategic and tactical proficiency. So why would anyone want an army of Pellaeon clones? Is he described as being an incredible warrior or starfighter pilot in one of the EU novels, of which I've read very few?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2008-02-09 05:11pm

Sidewinder wrote: Is he described as being an incredible warrior or starfighter pilot in one of the EU novels, of which I've read very few?

He served aboard capital ships for his entire career. and according to Wookiepedia, he was Captain of an Acclamator during the Clone Wars. Unfortunately that's a piece out of "True Colors" which is another literary abortion by Karen Traviss.

It begs the question, if he was Captain of an Acclamator during the Clone Wars, why the fuck was he still a Captain years upon years after endor. That is one slow uphill climb in the ranks.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-02-09 05:34pm

He actually ordered the withdrawal of an element consisting of multiple Acclamator-class vessels, so he is either a Line Captain or a courtesy commodore or (as in Endor later) illegally violating the chain of command. So he actually reaches a captain's rank as CO of a ship and in command one way or another of an element of ships, and is later merely the XO of a Star Destroyer...and by later, I mean twenty-five years.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-09 05:40pm

That's hilarious.

GrandAdmiralJello · Post by **GrandAdmiralJello** » 2008-02-09 05:45pm

Jim Raynor wrote:So, did Jaina become a Mandalorian as we feared? Like havokeff, I would also like to ask for serious explanation for all of this. Why did the Vong/Tusken/Jedi (I can't believe there's such a fucking thing ) girl assassinate Pellaeon? Is an event portrayed in a way that goes along with Traviss's stated (and ridiculous) opinions that the Jedi are a bunch of assholes?

Apparently the GA was engaged in a civil war where the majority of the military turned against the boy wonder. Pelly was asked to take his side, but when he chose to support the GA military instead, Tahiri shot him point blank.

No, it doesn't make any sense to me either.

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-02-09 06:49pm

So, did Jaina become a Mandalorian as we feared?

From all accounts, no. She holds her own against Boba and his pals while they all wear full armour and she just has a lightsaber, earns his respect, but has no desire to become a Mandalorian.[/i]

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2008-02-09 08:58pm

Sidewinder wrote:Pellaeon's a capable leader because of his experience, right? I don't recall him ever getting his memories copied onto a computer-- do they even have such technology in the 'Star Wars' universe?-- so clones of him would be unlikely to have his strategic and tactical proficiency. So why would anyone want an army of Pellaeon clones? Is he described as being an incredible warrior or starfighter pilot in one of the EU novels, of which I've read very few?

The technology does indeed exist to copy a person's memory and personality to a computer (e.g., Nichos Marr in Children of the Jedi), and for them to be transferred to a living being (e.g., the Fel clones in the Hand of Thrawn duology). The question is why anyone would want a platoon of cloned Pellaeons, unless one is concerned about coordinating a number of ignominious retreats at the same time.

The first sentence of your post is a case of unintentional comedy. Pellaeon's experience is not at all something to boast of, considering that he was only a post captain after more than fifty years of service. In essence, he has a great deal of experience at moribund mediocrity.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2008-02-09 09:24pm

1. This is an even worse death than Mara -- once again courtesy of KT, of course. Pellaeon was my favorite EU character after Mara. Delusional B****...

2. Daala =

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-02-09 09:25pm

I actually think Daala and Pellaeon are alike in that their political/administrative abilities far outstrip their very meager tactical/strategic abilities.

atg · Post by **atg** » 2008-02-09 09:37pm

QuentinGeorge wrote:I actually think Daala and Pellaeon are alike in that their political/administrative abilities far outstrip their very meager tactical/strategic abilities.

I think the Hand of Thrawn duology mentions that Pellaeon isn't the type to be at the front doing the charge, but is the type at the back making sure his troops are well equipped, supplied, respected, etc. So more of a logistics sort.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2008-02-09 09:53pm

Knowing full well that I might be flayed alive, I have to say that I personally disagree with the opinions offered of Gilad Pellaeon. While he may not be a tactition or strategist on par with Grand Admiral Thrawn, Pellaeon has shown himself to be a very skilled leader and naval commander. Leia Organa Solo, Wedge Antilles, and Han Solo are just some of the people -- his former enemies -- who have commented on his skill as a tactition; Antilles credits Pellaeon's knowledge of his limitations as one of the reasons that the Empire lasted so long, unlike highly arrogant and ambitious warlords and Imperial officials such as Moff Tarkin, adding that he is "excellent at command". That he remained in a moderately lowly position isn't indicative of lack of capability; Daala managed to climb the Imperial ranks (with the assistance of Moff Tarkin), though Tarkin believed that she would have done so without his help. Concluding, the Galactic Alliance specifically chose him to ascend to the position of Supreme Commander, despite having the likes of Garm Bel Iblis and a Bothan naval commander (in DN) who was capable of defeating a simulated Grand Admiral Thrawn on every occasion amongst their ranks.

He's clearly talented in some regard.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2008-02-09 10:32pm

History provides a number of examples of high commanders having little to no actual experience in command. Perhaps the two most prominent examples being George Washington and Dwight D. Eisenhower, both of whom were appointed to overall command with very little experience.

George B. McClellan is in a position to dispute that administrative or political ability has any bearing on one's suitability as a commander in the field. Pellaeon's actual observed performance in combat has been lackluster at best, cowardly and unlawful at worst. Likewise, Daala's alleged hothouse brilliance in training has never been known to translate to brilliance in battle. Judging battle is a matter of show-or-tell; judging by what is seen rather than what is said, neither of them is any more than a mediocre commander.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-02-09 10:35pm

Alexian Cale wrote:He's clearly talented in some regard.

A bunch of people liking him doesn't make him a better commander. After detente, maybe he was just really popular on the banquet circuit.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-02-09 10:36pm

We always hear about master strategists and genius tacticians. Perhaps it's time for logistical wizards to get more credit. And then the other branches of military discipline, whatever they may be.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2008-02-09 10:52pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:We always hear about master strategists and genius tacticians. Perhaps it's time for logistical wizards to get more credit. And then the other branches of military discipline, whatever they may be.

This author will readily concede that Corporal Daala has been shown by evidence to be a master logistician and administrator, demonstrated by her success in reorganizing the holdings and war economies of the ci-devant rogue warlords she'd murdered in Darksaber. Furthermore, he readily grants that a man of Pellaeon's experience and character is no doubt a fine taskmaster (borne out by the Chimaera's reputation as a tightly-run ship in Tatooine Ghost, and very likely the reason for his apparent selection as GADM Thrawn's captain of the fleet). The problem is that they routinely strayed from their areas of competence into battle, where they were generally incompetent.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-02-09 11:10pm

I'm not arguing. I was more talking about a general point about how stories and history tend to stress brilliant strategists and tacticians. But logistics is an invaluable part of military planning as well. Come to think of it, are there any other major branches besides those big three?

PREDATOR490 · Post by **PREDATOR490** » 2008-02-10 12:44am

Eh... the last book I read of the EU was the final Yuuzhan Vong book since it seemed like the best end to Star Wars. I'm glad I havent gotten anymore after this.

Cant say I was too impressed with the Yuuzhan Vong War are itself but the way things are being described of the new books it sounds awful. I thought Daala was killed and bringing her back is hardly impressive when she had her ass repeatedly hannded to her.

Regardless, if this is the kind of stuff they are bringing out in Star Wars now just to keep the EU running then it would be better they just end it.

Alexian Cale · Post by **Alexian Cale** » 2008-02-10 03:16am

Stark wrote:
Alexian Cale wrote:He's clearly talented in some regard.
A bunch of people liking him doesn't make him a better commander. After detente, maybe he was just really popular on the banquet circuit.

I would concur without objection if "a bunch of people" liked Grand Admiral Pellaeon, but they didn't. Force Heretic III: Reunion is but one of the multiple sources indicating that Galactic Alliance personnel are not particularly fond of Pellaeon maintaining a high authority within the Alliance Defense Force -- and this was before he was made their supreme commander.

To quote The Final Prophecy, page 142:

"The best thing about Pellaeon was that he knew his limitations," Wedge said. "Don't get me wrong, he's a very good tactition and excellent at command -- but when Thrawn died, he didn't kid himself that he could salvage the battle. That alone set him apart from most Imperial commanders, who more usually had inflated opinions of themselves."

I'd consider a statement made by Wedge Antilles to have factual basis, since he spent the majority of his career in direct opposition to Grand Admiral Pellaeon. With all due respect, Publius, though I agree that "Judging battle is a matter of show-or-tell" -- the full scope of the Galactic Civil War has not been covered, nor has every single battle -- so the statements provided by credible sources, such as Antilles, should be taken into consideration. And as you once said in regards to Thrawn's admiration for Palpatine, I submit to you that Wedge Antilles respected Pellaeon because he was, somehow, deserving of it.

This seems to extend beyond just being a 'fine taskmaster'.

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-02-10 05:52am

Since when is Wedge Antilles qualified to judge what a fine tactician is? Is he one himself?

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Ms Traviss redeems herself (spoilers, LotF:Revelation)

Re: Ms Traviss redeems herself (spoilers, LotF:Revelation)