Whats this I hear about Revan?

[PREDATOR490]

Well if KOTOR 1's lightside ending is cannon then we know Revan beat Malak and Bastilla in a lightsaber fight to get that far. Although would it be cannon that Revan killed Bastilla or 'saved' her ?

Regardless, a recovering Revan / Player character was able to put the beat down on a Starforge boosted Bastilla which you could use as evidence that Revan is better than Bastilla. That said, its not as if being able to smack up Bastilla is a great feat of force power ANYWAY. She is supposed to be a Padawan going up against a trained Sith / Jedi Master so Revan clearly has an advantage in training twice over.
They 're is also the issue of these 'force bond' things. From what I gather the bond allows some sort of empathy which means Revan vs. Bastilla could be marred by him using an ability he wouldnt get in a fight against anyone else.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Well if KOTOR 1's lightside ending is cannon then we know Revan beat Malak and Bastilla in a lightsaber fight to get that far. Although would it be cannon that Revan killed Bastilla or 'saved' her ?

My understanding is that only the lightside choices of the game are considered canon, and since Bastilla appears in KOTOR2, it would appear he saved her.

[JGregory32]

From my memory of the game Revan was pretty bad assed. His actions and powers were:
(Mentioned in KOTOR 1)
Broke with the jedi council while a knight
Drew other members of the Jedi order to Taris, also broke up a slave ring while there
Turned the tide against the Mandalorians with unorthadox battle tactics
Personally defeated the Leader of the Mandalorians in one on one combat
Took the fleet, beyond republic space
Tracked down all parts of the Rakatan starmap
Awakened the starforge
Began steamrolling the republic
At some point cut off Malak's jaw
Established a Sith Academy at Korriban
Allowed Bastila to board his flagship with the intention of turning her
Was betrayed by Malak
Mindwiped by the Jedi Council
Pwned the planet of Taris (again),
Relearned Jedi powers in a matter of weeks
Kicked ass on Tatooine, Dantooine, Kashyyyk, Korriban, Manaan, and Rakata Prime
Fought at least two creatures delibertly created to kill Jedi, fought numerous Rancors, fought numerous Dark Jedi, fought Bastalia, fought and killed Malak
Destoyed the StarForge
Was known to speak numberous languages through the force, overcame Jedi council mindwiping, managed to inspire insane loyalty among a small band of misfits, and raced swoops
(Mentioned in KOTOR II)
Survived the destruction of Malachor V
Trained at the abandoned temple on Malachor V
Broke numerous Jedi Knights and masters at Malachor V
Trained a cadre in ways to kill Jedi
Fought a war in a way to preseve as many resources as possible
Left republic space a second time
Trained under Kreia and numerous other masters

There is probaly more but it reads like a laundry list of great achievements.

[Tiriol]

From my memory of the game Revan was pretty bad assed. His actions and powers were:
(Mentioned in KOTOR 1)
Broke with the jedi council while a knight
Drew other members of the Jedi order to Taris, also broke up a slave ring while there
Turned the tide against the Mandalorians with unorthadox battle tactics
Personally defeated the Leader of the Mandalorians in one on one combat
Took the fleet, beyond republic space
Tracked down all parts of the Rakatan starmap
Awakened the starforge
Began steamrolling the republic
At some point cut off Malak's jaw
Established a Sith Academy at Korriban
Allowed Bastila to board his flagship with the intention of turning her
Was betrayed by Malak
Mindwiped by the Jedi Council
Pwned the planet of Taris (again),
Relearned Jedi powers in a matter of weeks
Kicked ass on Tatooine, Dantooine, Kashyyyk, Korriban, Manaan, and Rakata Prime
Fought at least two creatures delibertly created to kill Jedi, fought numerous Rancors, fought numerous Dark Jedi, fought Bastalia, fought and killed Malak
Destoyed the StarForge
Was known to speak numberous languages through the force, overcame Jedi council mindwiping, managed to inspire insane loyalty among a small band of misfits, and raced swoops
(Mentioned in KOTOR II)
Survived the destruction of Malachor V
Trained at the abandoned temple on Malachor V
Broke numerous Jedi Knights and masters at Malachor V
Trained a cadre in ways to kill Jedi
Fought a war in a way to preseve as many resources as possible
Left republic space a second time
Trained under Kreia and numerous other masters

There is probaly more but it reads like a laundry list of great achievements.

And how, exactly, does this list of accomplishments make Mr. Revan as mighty and lofty as he is all too often said to be? A great list of accomplishments, to be sure, but they do not quantify him much. After all, Anakin Skywalker, before becoming a Knight, easily slaughtered an ENTIRE Tusken tribe alone while Revan did so with the help of his comrades. Before anyone raises the inevitable claim "It's not fair, Anakin's a Chosen One!" I'll point out that many KotOR fanatics seem to be at least partially convinced that their vaunted amnesiac flip-flopper is stronger than Skywalker (and the opening post mentions at least one person of questionable intelligence who had the nerve to claim that Revan = Palpatine, Skywalker & Yoda combined).

Besides, training at an abandoned temple is somewhat... less than stellar. And being betrayed is hardly a qualification for greatness and being mind-wiped isn't too convinincing, as well.

One cannot look at invidual incidents and proclaim "X did Y, therefore X is better than Z!" It is the bigger picture that matters and frankly, Anakin Skywalker did much what Revan did, only earlier and quicker (without the humiliating parts, mostly). Remember the context and analyze the available information.

[TC Pilot]

I think you're putting a rather excessive amount of emphasis on Malak's betrayal as a failure. All Malak did was order his flagship to open fire on Revan's vessel. What could he have done to stop it? Refuse to ever give Malak a ship? Deflect the incoming turbolaser barrage? Use the Force to stop the floor from exploding underneath him? It's like calling Vader weak for letting himself catch on fire on Mustafar.

No doubt, Revan is talented. He was charasmatic enough to enlist a sizable contingent of Jedi for the war, an excellent general that beat back the Mandalorians and nearly toppled the Old Republic and beloved by his soldiers, defeated Darth Malak in single combat (Malak is implied to being one of the most formidable duelists at the time). This talents alone suggest a rather extraordinary man. His Force powers made him the premiere individual of his generation.

But is he stronger than Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, and Palpatine? That is certainly a stretch. Skywalker is certainly erratic enough to be bested. Yoda is stated to being (or at least regarded as) the strongest, most capable Jedi in history in the ROTS novelization, and was only defeated by Palpatine, the single strongest Force user ever, and, I hypothesize, actually invincible to all but Skywalker.

Revan belongs in the Top 10, maybe even the Top 5. But greatest he is not

[wjs7744]

TC Pilot
Palpatine was invincible? I thought that Mace Windu almost killed him, but for Anakin's betrayal.

As for Revan being stronger than all the movie Jedi, I don't really know. I think it's clear that he was the most powerful of his time, and haven't force-users been getting progressively weaker for millennia? I don't really remember, but if that is true then it could mean that Revan is stronger than Yoda et al. Far from conclusive, however.

[TC Pilot]

Palpatine was invincible? I thought that Mace Windu almost killed him, but for Anakin's betrayal.

It's a theory of mine, based off two facts: that only Anakin could balance the Force, and killing Palpatine balanced the Force. If those two are indeed true, then only Anakin could kill Palpatine.

As for Revan being stronger than all the movie Jedi, I don't really know. I think it's clear that he was the most powerful of his time, and haven't force-users been getting progressively weaker for millennia? I don't really remember, but if that is true then it could mean that Revan is stronger than Yoda et al. Far from conclusive, however.

I have yet to see any proof to this degeneration of power and skill. Certainly, the more arcane displays of power were lost over the millenia of apocalyptic combat, but that should by no means suggest that Force users are any less strong than their predecessors.

[wjs7744]

It's a theory of mine, based off two facts: that only Anakin could balance the Force, and killing Palpatine balanced the Force. If those two are indeed true, then only Anakin could kill Palpatine.

That's an interesting theory, but both of your facts are actually assumptions. Not unreasonable assumptions, to be sure, but assumprions nonetheless.

For starters you are assuming that only Anakin could balance the force. From how I understand it, the whole prophecy thing just says that he will be the one to do so, not that he is the only one capable of doing so. You may say that that isn't a big deal, seeing as ifhe is going to do it, nobody else can, but that assumes that the prophesy is accurate. Is there any evidence of this?

Also, who says that destroying the Sith is what balances the force? The Jedi seem to think so, but the prophecy isn't that explicit. I've heard some people that think that the balance it speaks of is related to the fact that before the PT, there were thousands of Jedi and only two sith, and that after Anakin is done with the order, there are only about two Jedi too. Again, is there really any evidence either way.

Combine this with Mace nearly killing Palpatine in RotS, and I doubt that he is as invincible as you say, unless you go for the angle that he wasn't fated to die, and that sort of invincibility. That, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with his power.

I have yet to see any proof to this degeneration of power and skill. Certainly, the more arcane displays of power were lost over the millenia of apocalyptic combat, but that should by no means suggest that Force users are any less strong than their predecessors.

Oh, quite. Like I said, I don't remember any evidence myself. I think it was Kreia in KotOR II and Yoda in RotS that mentioned it. They are two of the wisest and most capable prophets in the entire saga, but they are not infallible. E.g. Yoda had no clue about order 66 until it was already given.

[JGregory32]

Actually just how powerfull was Yoda?
We've seen him do an impresive fancy, forcefliping lightsaber battle, absorb lightning, and supposedly view the future.

The battle against Doku showed us Yoda's personal style but we don't really know how it stacks against other styles or if its intended soley to make up for Yoda's lack of height. There is also that Doku was trying to escape rather than hold his ground.

Absorbing Palpatine's Force Lightning is something any properly grounded piece of equipment could have done and we don't have a base line on how powrful it was in the first place. Palpatine did use it against Windu without much effect and we did see it age/mutate Palpatine when it was forced back but the mechanism for this is unknown.

As for viewing the future, many other Jedi could view the future, Luke saw the future whle training, Anakin saw the future in his dreams, and it has been supposed that the Jedi's ability to block lightsaber attacks is based on some form of pre-cog.

Later we see Yoda raise a X-Wing from a swamp but that might be more a case of experience and skill than power.

None of these seem to qualify Yoda as extremely powerful, am I missing something?

[wjs7744]

Well, Yoda's duel with Dooku on Geonosis does show some more impressive feats, such as when Dooku collapses the ceiling on him, or when he collapses the pillar at Anakin and Obi-Wan. He also duels with Palpatine in the senate hall in RotS, throwing those giant pods around. He is certainly powerful, but I wouldn't call him the best. After all, you saw how fatigued absorbing Palpy's lightning made him, which didn't happen to Obi-Wan or Mace.

[TC Pilot]

For starters you are assuming that only Anakin could balance the force. From how I understand it, the whole prophecy thing just says that he will be the one to do so, not that he is the only one capable of doing so. You may say that that isn't a big deal, seeing as ifhe is going to do it, nobody else can, but that assumes that the prophesy is accurate. Is there any evidence of this?

Since Anakin was the Chosen One, and the Chosen One balances the Force, I don't see how it can be anyone but Anakin who can do it.

Also, who says that destroying the Sith is what balances the force?

I never said destroying the Sith is what balances the Force. We do know, however, that Vader's actions at Endor are what balanced the Force. And, as we all know, what he did was kill Palpatine.

I've heard some people that think that the balance it speaks of is related to the fact that before the PT, there were thousands of Jedi and only two sith, and that after Anakin is done with the order, there are only about two Jedi too.

Yes, I've heard that theory as well. It's also idiotic.

Combine this with Mace nearly killing Palpatine in RotS

There is a notable difference between nearly killing and killing.

and I doubt that he is as invincible as you say, unless you go for the angle that he wasn't fated to die, and that sort of invincibility. That, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with his power.

Palpatine's invincibility is ancillary to his skill and power. He was never fated to live or die, else we remove any meaning to both the story and Anakin's own development, nor was Palpatine aware of this. This is merely a retroactive claim made after his death. One may also consider that the ROTS novelization, where Yoda, the strongest and most powerful Jedi, realizes he had lost to Palpatine from the very start.

None of these seem to qualify Yoda as extremely powerful, am I missing something?

As above, during his duel with Palpatine in the novelization, Yoda is described as the culmination of centuries and millenia of Jedi training and power, the ultimate defender of the Order and the Light.

[wjs7744]

Since Anakin was the Chosen One, and the Chosen One balances the Force, I don't see how it can be anyone but Anakin who can do it.

Yes yes, I know that that is what the prophecy says. How do we know the prophecy is true?

I never said destroying the Sith is what balances the Force. We do know, however, that Vader's actions at Endor are what balanced the Force. And, as we all know, what he did was kill Palpatine.

How do we know Vader's actions at Endor balanced the force?

Yes, I've heard that theory as well. It's also idiotic.

You can't just say a theory is idiotic, you have to explain why. I don't suscribe to the idea that it is down to numbers, but the Jedi are clearly dominant before Anakin comes along, and far closer to par with the Sith afterwards. And frankly, the prophecy is so vague that it supports either theory.

There is a notable difference between nearly killing and killing.

Irrelevant. The fact remains that Mace beat Palpatine, even though he was prevented from killing him. Clearly, Palpatine is not invincible.

Palpatine's invincibility is ancillary to his skill and power. He was never fated to live or die, else we remove any meaning to both the story and Anakin's own development, nor was Palpatine aware of this. This is merely a retroactive claim made after his death. One may also consider that the ROTS novelization, where Yoda, the strongest and most powerful Jedi, realizes he had lost to Palpatine from the very start.

So Yoda realises that he isn't a match for Palpatine. How does that translate into invincibility on Palpatine's part?

[TC Pilot]

Yes yes, I know that that is what the prophecy says. How do we know the prophecy is true?

George Lucas tells us so.

How do we know Vader's actions at Endor balanced the force?

Again, George Lucas tells us so.

You can't just say a theory is idiotic, you have to explain why. I don't suscribe to the idea that it is down to numbers, but the Jedi are clearly dominant before Anakin comes along, and far closer to par with the Sith afterwards. And frankly, the prophecy is so vague that it supports either theory.

Because we know from what Lucas has said that numbers has absolutely nothing to do with it. Further, the growing domination of the Dark Side throughout the Prequel Trilogy suggests the exact opposite of the "number" theory, an imbalance that did not change as the Jedi were exterminated, either.

Irrelevant. The fact remains that Mace beat Palpatine, even though he was prevented from killing him. Clearly, Palpatine is not invincible.

And yet who walked away from the fight? Who killed whom? This is ignoring the debate over whether or not Palpatine was actually beaten (he wasn't).

So Yoda realises that he isn't a match for Palpatine. How does that translate into invincibility on Palpatine's part?

You misunderstand. It was not that Yoda was simply outmatched, outmanuevered, etc. He literally never had a chance of beating Palpatine. He had lost before he was even trained, before he was even born; he and every. last. Jedi.

[Tiriol]

I think you're putting a rather excessive amount of emphasis on Malak's betrayal as a failure. All Malak did was order his flagship to open fire on Revan's vessel. What could he have done to stop it? Refuse to ever give Malak a ship? Deflect the incoming turbolaser barrage? Use the Force to stop the floor from exploding underneath him? It's like calling Vader weak for letting himself catch on fire on Mustafar.

When the said failure is listed among the many things that make Lord Revan "a badass", no, there isn't excessive amount of emphasis on failure.

As for Revan being stronger than all the movie Jedi, I don't really know. I think it's clear that he was the most powerful of his time, and haven't force-users been getting progressively weaker for millennia? I don't really remember, but if that is true then it could mean that Revan is stronger than Yoda et al. Far from conclusive, however.

No, they haven't. The Jedi started to weaken due to the influence of the dark side and Bane's Sith Order. If anything, the Jedi of Revan's time might have been weaker since they had recently lost their most important headquarters on Ossus and a huge body of lore and knowledge and their fight against Exar Kun and his disciples had ravaged their numbers.

[Alexian Cale]

I seem to recall George Lucas declaring the PT "the prime of the Jedi", though the source eludes me.

[Imperial Overlord]

If the Lightside ending is canon, Revan is clearly bad ass. He's a successful war leader, unusually powerful in the Force, and capable of beating a Sith Lord pumped up by the power of the Star Forge and siphoning the power out of captive Jedi after carving his way through legion of dark Jedi and Sith warriors. That doesn't mean he's the equal of Anakin or Yoda, so there is no inconsistency with them being more powerful than he was, but he's clearly quite potent.

[Darth Ruinus]

You misunderstand. It was not that Yoda was simply outmatched, outmanuevered, etc. He literally never had a chance of beating Palpatine. He had lost before he was even trained, before he was even born; he and every. last. Jedi.

That sounds cool, can you provide the book quote, I would very much like to see it.

[TC Pilot]

Certainly, though I don't know what page number this is from.

This truth; that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devestatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever know...
just-
didn't-
have it.

He never had it. He lost before he started. He lost before he was born.

EDIT- I found more

"The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the force but jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.

They had become new.

While the Jedi-

The Jedi had spent that same millenium training to refight the last war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become darks own weapon?

He knew at that instant, that this insight, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.
Hmmnnn, Yoda thought. A problem this is......."

[PREDATOR490]

(Mentioned in KOTOR 1)
Broke with the jedi council while a knight

How is this an achievement ?
The reason he broke with the Council is supposedly because he wanted to actually do something to help in the war rather than wait like the council had instructed. At the best you could probably use this as reasoning for him being young and brash like Anakin.

Drew other members of the Jedi order to Taris, also broke up a slave ring while there.

Hardly much information to go on for this to be mentioned. If he managed to single handidly beat every Jedi to a bloody mess and kill hundreds of slavers with his bare hands that would be impressive. Either way I'm guessing these actions on Taris went unnoticed since noone recognised him when the player is wandering around which suggests it was fairly minor events.

Turned the tide against the Mandalorians with unorthadox battle tactics.

From what Carth tells us those 'battle tactics' basically involved being brutal to a large extent. Beyond that we still have little information on how Revan actually fought the war. Ironically, we have more information on how the Exile fought than Revan. The only specific thing I can actually recall being mentioned was the incident at Malachor V, beyond that we just know Revan fought the Mandalorians successfully. The scale of that success is fairly unknown.

Personally defeated the Leader of the Mandalorians in one on one combat

A trained Jedi Knight beating a non - force user isnt that impressive. We have no idea how good the Mandalore was and even if he was as good as Jango or Boba we saw first hand in AOTC how much that skill counts for against Mace Windu. Revan clearly has an advantage in such a fight even if he is just a Jedi Knight and not a master like Windu was.

Took the fleet, beyond republic space

Irrelevant.
Might as well say he took the car out for a drive for all it shows of his power. Unless he managed to single handidly pilot every ship with his mind or something then this is pointless to bring up.

Tracked down all parts of the Rakatan starmap

In either case he got helped both the first and second time. The second time is less impressive because he was clearly getting some of his memories and power back over the course of the game hence he may have been using that more than figuring it out all over again from scratch.
The first time he found the maps is still relatively unknown as far as I'm aware. He may have done some of the stuff he had to do in the game to get to those maps or he might not. I'm guessing he didnt because once again we dont hear much about Revan tearing up worlds to find the maps.

Awakened the starforge

As far as I am aware, the Starforge is supposedly self aware to some extent so Revan may or may not have done anything really epic to reactivate it. Regardless, this dosent have any way of being a quantifiable measurement of his own power or skill.

Began steamrolling the republic

Since Revan had the element of surprise to his advantage plus essentially turning the Republic's own forces against them then it isnt much of a feat to steamroller someone when they are in a weakened state to begin with. If Revan was so epicly powerful that he single handidly beat the Mandalorians then obviously the Republic's organisation and training is weak. Carth said the Mandalorians were out matched vs. the Republic and knew it so clearly the Republic's leadership was fucking up badly.
Regardless, if Revan was using some sort of Jedi / Sith battle meditation like Bastilla or future predictions like Palpatine then his victories over the Mandalorians and Republic are based on a really unfair advantage of superior forces and his abilities.
With the Starforge cranking out military hardware and being completely unknown to the galaxy Revan has a massive advantage against the Republic regardless of his own skill or power.

At some point cut off Malak's jaw
Established a Sith Academy at Korriban

So Revan became Luke Skywalker by making an Academy... still fairly unremarkable in the amount of information it gives us to judge his capabilities. How Malak lost his jaw is unknown to me so maybe this is an achievement.

Allowed Bastila to board his flagship with the intention of turning her

The only thing I can really see as being helpful is the fact he killed two Jedi with her although the fight isnt shown so he may have done it effortlessly like Palpatine did to Mace Windu's pals in ROTS or been somewhat more involved.
I'm fairly certain the Jedi with Bastilla were Knights or Padawans like her so in either case Revan clearly has an advantage in skill, power and training. The only thing Bastilla was good for was her battle meditation trick which she cant use in a one-on-one fight from what I gather.
If she can though then I suppose that means Revan is able to kick the ass of Bastilla + 2 force enhanced Jedi which I would consider impressive.

Was betrayed by Malak

This is not an achievement anymore than Palpatine getting hurled down the Death Star shaft is. If anything it shows Revan was caught off guard and would have been killed had Bastilla not saved his ass.

Mindwiped by the Jedi Council

Is this actually confirmed ?
I was under the impression Revan lost his memory as a result of Bastilla healing him and creating that force bond. Even if it is the case the extent of that mindwipe is largely unknown.

Pwned the planet of Taris (again),
Kicked ass on Tatooine, Dantooine, Kashyyyk, Korriban, Manaan, and Rakata Prime

A lot of this is highly subjective because it is left in the hands of the player to choose the directions they go in. If the 'ideal' Revan was to complete every single quest from piloting swoops to killing Bendak Starkiller then this is more impressive than if he just went around doing the 'main' quests. Additonally, the extent of those actions are dependant on game mechanics so at best the only things you can really take out of the game is the main lightside events and even then only those that are railroaded for the character.

Relearned Jedi powers in a matter of weeks

This is marred by the fact he shares a force bond with Bastilla and the remnants of his former self being encouraged to the fore. Meaning his speed at learning this stuff could be entirely because he is remembering it rather than learning it completely fresh with Bastilla's link providing more power than he had as Revan.
You can also suggest that Revan isnt doing this at this point because the character the player creates is going to be a different personnality than what Revan actually was. From what Kotor 2 suggests Revan dosent fully remember everything until weeks / months after the end of Kotor 1.

Fought at least two creatures delibertly created to kill Jedi, fought numerous Rancors, fought numerous Dark Jedi, fought Bastalia, fought and killed Malak
Destoyed the StarForge
Was known to speak numberous languages through the force, overcame Jedi council mindwiping, managed to inspire insane loyalty among a small band of misfits, and raced swoops

You are pulling out a lot of random shit now. Revan didnt use his bare hands to destroy the Starforge or anything like that and most likely it was the fleet that did it hence this is no more an indication of his achievements or power than saying he took the fleet out of Republic space.
The Jedi mindwipe has already been addressed but he definetly did not overcome it on his own. Bastilla, being repeatedly bombarded with familiar situations, encouraged to remember and Malak telling him he was Revan are what got him to remember. That said, wether or not Revan is the same person he was prior to the mindwipe is unlikely since he went from destroying the Republic to becoming a lightside Jedi. Even when he fully remembers he dosent go on another mass rampage against the Republic so I find that an indication that Revan isnt entirely what he used to be.

Most of the other stuff you have listed is subjective depending on game mechanics and player choices. Defeating a Rancor by making it eat a thermal detonator or killing a Krayt Dragon with mines would merely show Revan / player isnt stupid. Defeating Bastilla has already been addressed as has Malak.

(Mentioned in KOTOR II)
Survived the destruction of Malachor V
Trained at the abandoned temple on Malachor V
Broke numerous Jedi Knights and masters at Malachor V
Trained a cadre in ways to kill Jedi
Fought a war in a way to preseve as many resources as possible
Left republic space a second time
Trained under Kreia and numerous other masters

KOTOR 2 is just generally wierd and unfinished in its story hence I wouldnt consider it a reliable source of information regarding anything unless it has been stated it is canon. Even if it is it is all about the Exile who from all accounts is on par with Revan in power since he / she is some sort of 'rift' in the force bullshit capable of wiping out all force power or something.


Overall, Revan has definetly got a good collection of feats and power to boast about but he is by no means a god or invincible. I would definetly consider him one of the best force users around and I could see him wiping the floor with the majority of Luke's rejects and maybe even Luke himself but I really doubt he is more powerful than Yoda or Palpatine. That dosent mean he couldnt win though given the right situation but anyone with the notion he is going to walk up to Palpatine and bitch slap him up and down the Death Star with lightning or shove a lightsaber up Yoda's rear end is clearly mistaken.[/quote]

[Rawtooth]

The canon achievements of Revan for combat can pretty much be summed up to 1) Fought Bastila and 2) Killed Malak. It is not etched in stone that he carved his way through the Star Forge, he did after all have two other Jedi along with him, not to mention the rest of his posse.

Kreia is an unreliable source of information as well, considering she spends the entire game manipulating the Exile.

[Mr Bean]

Drew other members of the Jedi order to Taris, also broke up a slave ring while there.

Hardly much information to go on for this to be mentioned. If he managed to single handily beat every Jedi to a bloody mess and kill hundreds of slavers with his bare hands that would be impressive. Either way I'm guessing these actions on Taris went unnoticed since noone recognised him when the player is wandering around which suggests it was fairly minor events.

Taris was slagged right after the PC left the planet. How is anyone going to know or remember him? Except for the PC's party and Calo Nord everyone DIED. As the planet was under lock-down no one else left the planet since he made landfall.

Turned the tide against the Mandalorians with unorthadox battle tactics.

From what Carth tells us those 'battle tactics' basically involved being brutal to a large extent. Beyond that we still have little information on how Revan actually fought the war. Ironically, we have more information on how the Exile fought than Revan. The only specific thing I can actually recall being mentioned was the incident at Malachor V, beyond that we just know Revan fought the Mandalorians successfully. The scale of that success is fairly unknown.

Carth "I hate people" Onasi is not a good witness. We know from Manadalore and others that Revan went into the Manadlorian like a white lighting. Was out-gunned and out-numbered to begin with and just when things were drawling even he baited a trap they could not ignore then destroyed Malacore V on them to white out their fleet and scatter their survivers.

We don't have an exact battle count no, but we do know that Revan fought them and won for several months before Malacore.

Overall, Revan has definetly got a good collection of feats and power to boast about but he is by no means a god or invincible. I would definetly consider him one of the best force users around and I could see him wiping the floor with the majority of Luke's rejects and maybe even Luke himself but I really doubt he is more powerful than Yoda or Palpatine. That dosent mean he couldnt win though given the right situation but anyone with the notion he is going to walk up to Palpatine and bitch slap him up and down the Death Star with lightning or shove a lightsaber up Yoda's rear end is clearly mistaken.

Cannonicly we don't have much to go on, however we do know the following

1. Revan was powerful, her exact power ranking is unknow but can only be interfered from what he achieved.
2. Revan twisted and broke thousands of important figures/Jedi/planetary heads. The exact number of Jedi he broke is unknow but it is know there were several Master's amoung them. Dozen of knights and he was training more on Malacore V and Korriban when he was taken out.
3.Revan was a good to excellent general. Defeating the mandalorians, keep in mind the Republic was losing hard in the intial fights until Revan joined the Republic and took on the mantle of General. Later via the resources of the Star Forge he began conquering the same Republic he had helped saved. He did it via both force and trickery. Witness the Betrayal of Telos by Saul. And he had done it other places at well.
Malak was the unthinking destroyer not Revan, Revan had a plan the entire time which she never got into place.

The only real know thing we can put down to Revan combat wise is Malak, as well as breaking of the masters. Other than that? Not much

[Havok]

Well, Yoda's duel with Dooku on Geonosis does show some more impressive feats, such as when Dooku collapses the ceiling on him, or when he collapses the pillar at Anakin and Obi-Wan. He also duels with Palpatine in the senate hall in RotS, throwing those giant pods around. He is certainly powerful, but I wouldn't call him the best. After all, you saw how fatigued absorbing Palpy's lightning made him, which didn't happen to Obi-Wan or Mace.

Mace and Obi-Wan did not absorb any Force lightning, they deflected/difused it with their lightsabers. Yoda IIRC is the only Jedi we EVER see actually absorb the lightning. He was also able to deflect it with out a lightsaber as well.

[Alexian Cale]

Well, Yoda's duel with Dooku on Geonosis does show some more impressive feats, such as when Dooku collapses the ceiling on him, or when he collapses the pillar at Anakin and Obi-Wan. He also duels with Palpatine in the senate hall in RotS, throwing those giant pods around. He is certainly powerful, but I wouldn't call him the best. After all, you saw how fatigued absorbing Palpy's lightning made him, which didn't happen to Obi-Wan or Mace.

Mace and Obi-Wan did not absorb any Force lightning, they deflected/difused it with their lightsabers. Yoda IIRC is the only Jedi we EVER see actually absorb the lightning. He was also able to deflect it with out a lightsaber as well.

Obi-Wan Kenobi hasn't demonstrated the prowess to deflect Force lightning, but I do believe that Vaapad allows Windu to do so -- with a lightsaber, mind you.

[Havok]

Mace and Obi-Wan did not absorb any Force lightning, they deflected/difused it with their lightsabers. Yoda IIRC is the only Jedi we EVER see actually absorb the lightning. He was also able to deflect it with out a lightsaber as well.

Obi-Wan Kenobi hasn't demonstrated the prowess to deflect Force lightning, but I do believe that Vaapad allows Windu to do so -- with a lightsaber, mind you.

Yes, which is why I wrote "deflected/difused".

[Terralthra]

Obi-Wan Kenobi hasn't demonstrated the prowess to deflect Force lightning, but I do believe that Vaapad allows Windu to do so -- with a lightsaber, mind you.