Christian Tract Breakdown-Just for fun

[Vehrec]

Today, I came back from the grocery store with a bag of rice and no feeling in my legs from the cold. Much to my suprize I found something attached to my door. Here's what it said on the front:

God's Simple plan of Salvation
<Snip contact information and service times>
Scott N Repko, pastor
Fundamental, independent everyone welcome!
http://www.capitolcitybaptistchurch.org

'Oh joy' thought I, 'the prefect thing for me to do after having to look at the lunacy that was the Creationist museum. I'll just rip this appart."

My Friend: I am asking you the most important question of life. Your joy or your sorrow for all eternity depends on your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a qeustion of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?

Ok, we've just started and they're on the offensive. This is the fear inducing part of the retoric, trying to get people scared. It's also highly inaccurate, since the question they ask has no relavence to life at all! They come right out and say it, this is about DEATH. This is an attempt to scare people. No matter how good you are, it doesn't matter unless you are SAVED apparently.

God says in order to go to heaven you must be born again. In john 3:7 Jesus said to Nicodemus "Ye must be born again."
In the Bible God gives us the plan of how To be born again which means to be saved His plan is Simple! You can be Saved today. How?

Is it just me or does this sound like a used car salesman? Also, not the constant appeal to the authority of the Bible-no attempt to establish the Bible as a reputable source is ever made. This is the Ultimate Appeal to Authority-no attempts made to prove that the source is authoritative simply the assumption that you will accept 2000 year old texts.

First, my friend, you must realise you are a sinner. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"Romans 3:23
Because you are a sinner, you are condemned to death. "For the wages of sin is death" (romans 6:23) This includes eternal seperation from God in Hell.
"...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement" (Hebrews 9:27)

More fear, and a guilt clause. Personally, guilt by birth is one of the stupidest parts of the Jeudeo-Christian mythos. I don't get why separation from god is considered a punishment-after all, he's really been a jerk.

But God loved you so much HE gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. "...He hath made Him to be sin for us...that we might be made the rightousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21)
Jesus had to shed his blood and die. For the life of the flesh is in the blood(leviticus 17:11) "Without the shedding of blood is no remission."(Hebrews 9:22)
"God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8)

A lot of shit here. They really want to hammer home some points- namely that Jesus was a human sacrifice. I for one am not comfortable with that-not one bit. And there seems to be a disturbing blood fetish going on here as well. I honestly don't know if I can keep typing for now. Christianity is really very creepy and strange when examined with a critical mindset.

Net time: Repentance, saving and shit. Lots of shit. Feel free to dump your own shit here to dissect it, it's what this place is for.

[PainRack]

The funniest thing about the blood sacrifice is this, the Lord, Liar, Lunatic defence.

Why would Jesus willingly sacrifice himself to save humanity(we ignore the biblical tracts where he ask god whether this is necessary or not). For Jesus to do so, what he says must be true and he is Lord, he's a Liar, or he's crazy, Lunatic.

And people believe that this is a devastating defence for Christ. Why?

[Darth Servo]

You live in Ohio and this is the first time you've gotten this stuff? During my breif stay in Illinois I'd find those tracts on my car at least once a week.

[Morilore]

The funniest thing about the blood sacrifice is this, the Lord, Liar, Lunatic defence.

Why would Jesus willingly sacrifice himself to save humanity(we ignore the biblical tracts where he ask god whether this is necessary or not). For Jesus to do so, what he says must be true and he is Lord, he's a Liar, or he's crazy, Lunatic.

And people believe that this is a devastating defence for Christ. Why?

Because no one is really willing to say "yes, I think he was a Liar and/or Lunatic." It's calculated against the unthinking, fence-sitting sheeple who may be more or less actively religious but have absorbed the unthinking reverence of the Bible and Christ from society.

[Vehrec]

You live in Ohio and this is the first time you've gotten this stuff? During my breif stay in Illinois I'd find those tracts on my car at least once a week.

It's not the first time, it's just after what I got dragged to this weekend I kinda snapped. Down with the opiate of the masses!

[K. A. Pital]

The great thing is those people going around you and saying "You're going to Hell! You're with Satan, but I'm righteous and with God! You - Satan." And so forth, from Evangelicals to Orthodox.

That's just so stupid and it totally reduces the will to even speak to those poor souls and try to salvage what's left of their sense of human dignity.

[CaptJodan]

It's funny how a pamphlet like that appeals directly to someone who is, in some manner, already a Christian. It's targeting those wishy washy Christians with doubts that they're not doing enough to get into heaven.

To be honest, I don't think it's really offering much from a psychological perspective. The entirety of the writing is just a giant fear-mongering rant. It doesn't even go so far as others I've seen where it offers a person a sense of community and friendship and all that other jazz that some do. You know, things that might impact the living. For example, they may try to appeal to someone's sense of "feeling an emptiness in their life that can only be filled by god". This sad piece doesn't even go that far. I can't imagine the low IQ level necessary to actually buy this crap (You may feel as if you're not doing enough, but that doesn't mean you're going to change your religion to these fear-mongers).

This, of course, leaves out the fact that they neglect to target anyone who might be any other religion (or lack of religion) in the world. An appeal to the Bible is useless to a Hindu, after all.

[Lagmonster]

More fear, and a guilt clause. Personally, guilt by birth is one of the stupidest parts of the Jeudeo-Christian mythos. I don't get why separation from god is considered a punishment-after all, he's really been a jerk.

I remember someone telling me that in Hell, there was 'wailing and gnashing of teeth'. The only thing that comes to mind on that phrase that includes things God might hate and thus condemn to Hell is listening to Jimmy Hendrix while enjoying a pork banquet.

[Surlethe]

The funniest thing about the blood sacrifice is this, the Lord, Liar, Lunatic defence.

Why would Jesus willingly sacrifice himself to save humanity(we ignore the biblical tracts where he ask god whether this is necessary or not). For Jesus to do so, what he says must be true and he is Lord, he's a Liar, or he's crazy, Lunatic.

And people believe that this is a devastating defence for Christ. Why?

Because no one is really willing to say "yes, I think he was a Liar and/or Lunatic." It's calculated against the unthinking, fence-sitting sheeple who may be more or less actively religious but have absorbed the unthinking reverence of the Bible and Christ from society.

It's called the "trifurcation" defense. One can attack it for being a black-and-white fallacy (or rather, a black-white-and-red fallacy), but it may be more effective, depending on your knowledge of the establishment of the Bible, to attack the veracity of the entire gospels. To attack the logic (or even accept it by picking a prong to defend) requires assuming that the gospels pretty much true in terms of the general story of Jesus' life.

[PainRack]

It's called the "trifurcation" defense. One can attack it for being a black-and-white fallacy (or rather, a black-white-and-red fallacy), but it may be more effective, depending on your knowledge of the establishment of the Bible, to attack the veracity of the entire gospels. To attack the logic (or even accept it by picking a prong to defend) requires assuming that the gospels pretty much true in terms of the general story of Jesus' life.

Its odd....... Everytime I used the Bible to support an argument, what I get is immediate rebuttals and rejection. And I haven't even moved on to questioning the Bible veracity.

[Axiomatic]

More fear, and a guilt clause. Personally, guilt by birth is one of the stupidest parts of the Jeudeo-Christian mythos. I don't get why separation from god is considered a punishment-after all, he's really been a jerk.

I remember someone telling me that in Hell, there was 'wailing and gnashing of teeth'. The only thing that comes to mind on that phrase that includes things God might hate and thus condemn to Hell is listening to Jimmy Hendrix while enjoying a pork banquet.

Of course they told you that. It's because that's all the Bible ever actually SAYS about Hell. That there is the exact and total amount of canonical information concerning Hell (which is never called Hell, or even named).

The rest is simply pop culture.

[Surlethe]

Of course they told you that. It's because that's all the Bible ever actually SAYS about Hell. That there is the exact and total amount of canonical information concerning Hell (which is never called Hell, or even named).

The rest is simply pop culture.

No, it's not. There is a large section on Hell in the book of Revalation, and even some in the book of Matthew, and that's off the top of my head. It's never called "hell", but there is certainly more information there than the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" from a parable.

[Broomstick]

It's never called "Hell" because that term comes from the Norse, where Hel, daughter of Loki, was the reigning Goddess of the more unpleasent afterlife.

[Axiomatic]

Of course they told you that. It's because that's all the Bible ever actually SAYS about Hell. That there is the exact and total amount of canonical information concerning Hell (which is never called Hell, or even named).

The rest is simply pop culture.

No, it's not. There is a large section on Hell in the book of Revalation, and even some in the book of Matthew, and that's off the top of my head. It's never called "hell", but there is certainly more information there than the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" from a parable.

You wouldn't mind quoting that for me, would you? Like chapter&verse?

Because I must've missed that part.

[Surlethe]

Revelation 20:10-15

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

***

Matthew 25:31-45

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

***

Here's the "weeping and gnashing of teeth":

Matthew 24:51

He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Rye]

In addition to those, there's also the bit from 1 Enoch 10:13-14 "In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and 14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations." That kinda proves that the idea isn't something that was "added later" since it was around in contemporary theology (and certainly parallels what Jesus describes in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man).

Also, Mark 9.43 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." and this is repeated a few times. Richard A. Horsley says on this precise bit: "43: Hell, lit. "Gehenna," the valley of the son of Hinnom (2 Kings 23.10; Jer 7.31), symbolising the place of eternal punishment by fire."

[Darth Wong]

You wouldn't mind quoting that for me, would you? Like chapter&verse?

Because I must've missed that part.

Perhaps it's because you never bothered reading the Bible?

[PainRack]

You wouldn't mind quoting that for me, would you? Like chapter&verse?

Because I must've missed that part.

Perhaps it's because you never bothered reading the Bible?

To be fair, there are branches of christianity which teach that there is no Hell, and those above passages refer to a singular death, not eternal punishment.

[Zablorg]

That was a good breakdown. The very fact that he sticks a flier to your door just screams car salesman attitude.

Those kinds of tracts say the stupidest shit. I found one lying on the floor at school, and the little narrator proposes to the man while discussing how very naughty he is, what if there was a chip in his brain that recorded all his private thoughts, which would later be shown to his family and friends.

"THAHT WHOULD BE EMBARATHING!"

It somehow fails to notice the oxymoron of "private thoughts" and "shown to family and friends".

[Darth Wong]

You wouldn't mind quoting that for me, would you? Like chapter&verse?

Because I must've missed that part.

Perhaps it's because you never bothered reading the Bible?

To be fair, there are branches of christianity which teach that there is no Hell, and those above passages refer to a singular death, not eternal punishment.

So? There are branches of Christianity which teach just about anything, like the so-called "prosperity gospel" churches, which teach that Jesus didn't really mean anything he said about wealth. Sorry, but the ability of Christian denominations to ignore parts of the Bible they dislike is legendary.

[Plekhanov]

Of course they told you that. It's because that's all the Bible ever actually SAYS about Hell. That there is the exact and total amount of canonical information concerning Hell (which is never called Hell, or even named).

The rest is simply pop culture.

No, it's not. There is a large section on Hell in the book of Revalation, and even some in the book of Matthew, and that's off the top of my head. It's never called "hell", but there is certainly more information there than the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" from a parable.

You wouldn't mind quoting that for me, would you? Like chapter&verse?

Because I must've missed that part.

You missed a great deal, how much of the bible have you actually read?

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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