Super Smash Bros Brawl site goes live

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-02-11 09:00am

Yeah, but at least they finally added the Fusion suit

.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2008-02-11 01:45pm

I dunno, isn't Samus #6 pretty similar to the Phazon Suit? At the least, it's sort of close enough.

Plus I think several other colour choices for her are evocative of previous representations of the suit, such as #4 and #5.

What I particularly like is how so many colour choices are references and allusions to either other characters or previous iterations of that particular character.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2008-02-11 06:39pm

Video of the metroid in action, about halfway through.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-02-11 07:52pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I dunno, isn't Samus #6 pretty similar to the Phazon Suit? At the least, it's sort of close enough.

Plus I think several other colour choices for her are evocative of previous representations of the suit, such as #4 and #5.

What I particularly like is how so many colour choices are references and allusions to either other characters or previous iterations of that particular character.

Yup. I do like that they added the Japan and US versions of ROB, and in particular the NES Link for Young Link.

Also, Samus's black alt is Dark Samus, the antagonist of Metroid Prime 3.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2008-02-11 07:56pm

The colour options for Mario and classic Wario are particular neat.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2008-02-11 10:53pm

Qwerty 42 wrote: Also, Samus's black alt is Dark Samus, the antagonist of Metroid Prime 3.

No it's not.

Going by that pic. it's the Dark suit from MP 2

Does anyone else think Cyclone Cycle when they see that suit?

This is Dark Samus

Which would be a cool alt. too.

I did see over on Wikitroid that the phazon suit is an alt color, so maybe we'll get that for the us release.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2008-02-11 11:35pm

I seriously doubt that they'd add something for the US release that wasn't already in the Japanese version.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-12 05:43am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I seriously doubt that they'd add something for the US release that wasn't already in the Japanese version.

Though I do wonder if they'll change the default around. In the Japanese version, Rob's default colors are the Japanese colors and the US ones are an alternate...will Japanese be alt and US be default over here?

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2008-02-12 06:58am

New Secret stage: Mario Bros, with item chucking almost as a prerequisite.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-02-12 07:14pm

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
Qwerty 42 wrote: Also, Samus's black alt is Dark Samus, the antagonist of Metroid Prime 3.
No it's not.

Going by that pic. it's the Dark suit from MP 2

Does anyone else think Cyclone Cycle when they see that suit?

This is Dark Samus

Which would be a cool alt. too.

I did see over on Wikitroid that the phazon suit is an alt color, so maybe we'll get that for the us release.

Ah, yes, you're right. I forgot Dark Samus was blue, for some reason.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2008-02-13 05:38am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I dunno, isn't Samus #6 pretty similar to the Phazon Suit? At the least, it's sort of close enough.

Plus I think several other colour choices for her are evocative of previous representations of the suit, such as #4 and #5.

#4 is the Gravity Suit, and #5 looks like the Super Metroid version of the default suit, except with the Varia Suit shoulders. It is a shame that they decided not to go with the Phazon Suit, though.

Dark Link looks fucking sweet, though. It's gotta be the eyes.

For the advanced moves update earlier, the only one I don't remember from Melee is the extended dash grab.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-02-13 03:31pm

I compiled a list of alternate costumes that reference alternate appearances of the default character, feel free to add to it.

Mario

3- This references Wario
5- This is an inversion of the color scheme for Mario when he picks up a Fire Flower.
6- I’m not really sure, but it looks like it may reference Mario in his appearance on the Game Boy, with the black and white.

Luigi

5- This is the costume of Waluigi, a villain in the Mario games.
6- This is Luigi when he picks up a Fire Flower.

Peach

2- This is Princess Daisy, another Princess in the Mario series.

Diddy Kong

4- This is Trixie Kong, a female protagonist in the Donkey Kong series.

Wario

Second set of costumes- This is Wario is his classic appearance.
Alt. 1- This appears to be Wario appearing as he would if he were a black and white sprite.
Alt. 4- This is Wario in his most popular appearance, with yellow and purple.

Link

2- This is the Goron Tunic, which gave Link immunity to extreme heat in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3- This is the Zora Tunic, which gave Link the ability to breathe underwater in Ocarina of Time
5- Someone mentioned that this is Link’s appearance when he picks up the Magic Armor in the original Legend of Zelda
6- This is Dark Link, an on-and-off protagonist in the Zelda series.

Zelda and Sheik

5- This is the “classic Zelda,” or Zelda as she appears in Ocarina of Time

WW Link

2- This is stylized after Link’s appearance in the original Legend of Zelda
3- This is Fuchsia Link, one of the copies of Link in the Four Swords spinoffs.
4- Blue Link, another copy
5- Red Link, yet another copy
6- the WW-style Dark Link. This version only appears in Four Swords Adventures.

Samus

2- Samus has this color scheme, although she is not wearing her armor, in Metroid: Zero Mission
5- This is stylized after Samus’s appearance in Super Metroid, according to a poster above me.
6- A poster above me mentioned that this is Samus’s Dark Suit, from Metroid Prime 2.

R.O.B.

6- This is how R.O.B. appeared in the United States. In Japan, it had the color scheme seen in the default picture to match the Famicom.

Kirby

6- This is based on what Kirby would look like as a 2-bit sprite, as he was in the original Game Boy titles.

Metaknight

6- This is Dark Metaknight, a character in a Kirby game I can’t remember.

King Dedede

6- This is based on what King Dedede would look like as a 2-bit sprite, as he was in the original Game Boy titles.

Pikmin & Olimar

2- This is based on Louie, Olimar’s assistant in Pikmin 2.

Captain Falcon

4- This is Blood Falcon, a clone of Falcon appearing first in F-Zero X.
5- This is Jodie Summers, a rival and later love interest of Falcon’s.

Pikachu

2- Pikachu is wearing the hat in protagonist wears in Pokemon Red and Blue.
3- Pikachu is wearing the headband the male protagonist wears in Pokemon Emerald.

Pokemon Trainer

3- Ivysaur and Squirtle here are Shiny, an extremely rare alternate coloring of any Pokemon.
4- The Trainer’s color scheme looks like the female protagonist in Fire Red and Leaf Green.

Jigglypuff:

4- Jigglypuff is wearing the hat of the female protagonist in Fire Red and Leaf Green.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2008-02-13 04:32pm

For one, those are B&W Kirby and Dedede, especially since Kirby literally has no colour whatsoever.

Also, the Gameboy was an 8-bit system, not 2-bit.

Additional Mario and Wario notations:

Mario #2: Mario Bros. Luigi
#4: Mario Bros. Mario

Classic Wario #2: Mario Bros. Luigi
#3: Mario Bros. Mario
#5 standard Mario

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2008-02-14 08:36pm

A number of people have noted that Ike's second color is just like Domon Kasshu from G Gundam.

Ness 3 and Lucas 6 may be references to each other. Ness 4 may be Ninten, the protagonist from Mother 1/NES Earth Bound.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-16 03:16am

Okay, I played Brawl on Wednesday. This game is absolutely-freaking-amazing.

It's going to hit the competitive scene hard though. Everyone falls so slowly and the physics are very different. Gives me some catch-up room. I'm entering my first Smash Bros tourney this month

And stuff like Wavedashing is gone.

But even though Melee felt faster and more technical and more skillful in some ways (at least initially, I'm sure I'll learn more Brawl techniques), Brawl was more fun. So incredibly well-animated and colorful and the play style feels great.

Toon Link is a BEAST. Sonic is great in a team match because your opponents are distracted and don't see you coming and you just fly through them- in a 1v1 his B button movements are too predictable, so you have to rely on the A button attacks which are fair. I'll need some more practice with him though.

I'm loving Peach. She was my main character in Melee...they nerfed her vastly over-powered Down-Smash (but it's still pretty good), and the new physics throw me off on her second jump, but float-cancelling still works (hovering an inch over the ground, attacking and then dropping the hover to touch the ground, cancel the pausing animation in between attacks for a quick follow up) and most of her other moves have been slightly improved, so I'll probably still be playing as Peach unless one of the new characters is superior.

Meta Knight is awesome.

Didn't try Wolf or Olimar or ROB yet.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-02-16 07:46am

How's SNAAAAKE?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-17 03:10am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:How's SNAAAAKE?

Haven't tried him yet

But he looked pretty good.

I've played Toon Link, Peach, Sonic, Dedede, Lucario, Meta Knight, and Pokemon Trainer.

Schuyler Colfax · Post by **Schuyler Colfax** » 2008-02-18 10:48am

Today's update Luigi's Mansion.

Seems like a fun level. You can destory the platforms and everything but it rebuilds by itself sooner or later.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2008-02-18 08:42pm

Praxis
What would you give it out of a hundred?
And what were some things that you didn't like?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-18 09:12pm

fusion wrote:Praxis
What would you give it out of a hundred?
And what were some things that you didn't like?

Oh man, that's tough. Something pretty darn near 100...but i need some more time on it.

Right now assuming no glaring flaws I don't know of yet, I'm thinking the 97-100 range.

Animation is silky smooth, colors and artistic style and stages are incredibly impressive to the point of being distracting due to sheer awe (especially Final Destination).

Things I didn't like...I have a small list.

1) All of the characters feel more floaty and slightly slower. Only slightly slower on foot, but they fall at very slow rates- extremely so. Especially Samus.

2) Some of the characters felt gimped...Samus felt horrible to control in the air- she moved slower than everyone else when falling, and that says a lot. Zero Suit Samus' B buttons are so poor that they don't even count- she's not a strong character, and you won't be using anything but her A attacks. Shiek's been gimped while Zelda's been improved to the point she's one of the better characters in the game, according to the tourney-players I talked to.

3) I miss the advanced techs- granted, while Wavedashing was far too overexploited, in order to remove wavedashing they completely changed the dodge mechanism. It doesn't affect your momentum at all, which removes a lot of its old uses (letting you dodge down under an opponent that is coming up with a rising attack) but introducing new ones (you can now attack after performing a dodge!).

I think #3 will no longer be a complaint in a year- but from a very experienced Smash Bros player, it was frustrating because a lot of the core mechanics were changed enough to completely throw me off when fighting other very skilled players. It'll just take adjustment time.

#2 is only a minor complaint. Few characters felt gimped- Samus' slow fall speed and Zero Suit Samus sucking altogether were my biggest complaints, and I guess Shiek if what I've been told is accurate.

#1 is my biggest complaint, because I love the fast paced Smash fights and honestly it was the epitome of skill-based games to compete in a serious Melee fight. The speed at which skilled Melee players move is really impressive, and Brawl kind of negates that by slowing the combat.

Despite #1...I actually thought Brawl was more fun then Melee and I'm looking forward to it more than ever. When I go to future tournaments I might still play Melee occasionally however.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2008-02-22 08:19am

Having now played an advance English copy of this game, I can tell you that it's worth all of the hype, all of the waiting. Quite simply awesome.

SPOILER

SPOILER

DON'T READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED

I was surprised that Snake was not an opening character. Or at least, if he is he's well hidden enough that three of us couldn't spot him.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-24 02:24pm

Dude, that's not a spoiler. Snake was revealed in the original trailer, and the fact that he's a hidden character should come as no surprise considering that it was publicized months ago and obvious to anyone who saw the character roster of teh Japanese version

I'm rather impressed you got to play an advanced English copy of the game though!

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2008-02-24 03:37pm

I'm 79% of the way through Subspace Emissary. Great game--it could be a game in and of itself. Unlocked many characters as well. ROB kicks ass.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-02-24 05:01pm

I'm sad to hear that everyone falls a lot slower--the speed of falling was already pretty slow for some people, I'd prefer a bit more normal gravity. Might make it hard to get back sometimes but there was too much of that anyway. I'm ecstatic about the goddamn wavedashing and such being dead as all fuck, it was always just a game exploit and never deserved any kind of further treatment. I don't dispute that if you play Melee you should use whatever tools are available, but so many people were willfully dishonest and asserted it was an intentional 'elite player feature' or some nonsense, when it was nothing but the sort. Airjuggles and exploits are the last refuge of the coward!

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2008-02-24 06:09pm

Covenant wrote:I'm sad to hear that everyone falls a lot slower--the speed of falling was already pretty slow for some people, I'd prefer a bit more normal gravity. Might make it hard to get back sometimes but there was too much of that anyway.

Actually this is a frustration point. It is way, WAY easier to make a recovery- essentially, it's almost impossible to get a kill without knocking someone off of the screen entirely. Almost nobody ever falls to their death.

For starters, the grab distance from the ledge is greatly increased. You can be quite a distance away and the character will still grab the ledge.

Next, grapples automatically home in on the ledge, which makes it ridiculously easy for someone like Samus who has a long beam to recover.

Additionally, you can grab a ledge even if you aren't facing towards it.

Dodges in midair no longer cause you to plummet so they'll get used a lot.

The extra floatiness gives you more time to react and lets you move further left or right as you fall.

And finally, everyone has crazy recovery.

Remember Peach, who had probably the best recovery of anyone in Melee short of Kirby? Well, her second jump, float, and umbrella still work great, but now her Peach bomber carries her forwards quite a distance and is a LOT more useful than before. It can be used for recovery as well, since it takes her so far forward. But now Peach's recovery is actually not so good compared to some of the characters we've got.

Snake's Up-B carries him so far upwards that he can practically go off the bottom of the screen and come all the way back up.

Pit can jump four times and then up and B and fly- then glide afterwards. He has the best recovery of anyone- he could probably be knocked to the very bottom-left corner of the screen, jump all the way back up and fly to the top and then glide and fly off the right hand side of the screen.

MetaKnight can jump four times, then up-B slash and glide afterwards.

Even Dedede can jump four times and then super-jump across half the stage for his Up-B.

I barely played with ROB, but his up-A carries him upwards as well, and his up-B lets him fly for a short time, and his second jump wasn't bad to begin with.

I'm not 100% sure but I think Ike has the worst recovery...it's about as good as Marth in Melee.

So in short- it's really, really hard to get a KO without slamming someone clear off the edge. However, there are upsides. I now tend to simply chase opponents off the bottom since it's easier for me to get back. Since everything's a bit slower and it's easy to get back, you can knock someone down, then jump off the ledge after them and hit them down again before they make it back up and then recover yourself.