Whats this I hear about Revan?

[PREDATOR490]

I distinctly remember Kreia saying the halls of the Jedi temple on Coruscant had been left empty of Jedi in the years following Revan's actions.

Yes, and Atris did a good job preserving all that information.

All that information' is rather subjective given we dont know what she actually preserved or if it even found its way into Yoda's archives. The Exile's pilot dude didnt even know who the fuck Revan was or what side he fought on and he was supposed to be one of the people killing Jedi. Multiply that by 4 thousand years of more history and it is highly likely the events have long faded from memory and any statements based on unknown historical documentation open to unreliability.
It was also made clear in KOTOR 2 that a good deal of the galaxy didnt CARE who started the war or the differentiation between Jedi / Sith. From the common joe they were seen as the same thing hence you ended up with the Jedi hit squads.
The chances of unbiased historical documentation coming out untouched in this period seems rather unlikely to me if it would ever be made at all to a degree that makes Yoda able to instantly say he is the most powerful Jedi in 25,000 years of history from words on a computer.

If that is the case then I would expect the archives to be incomplete or not exist at all if no Jedi are within the Coruscant temple.

Again, we're not talking about Revan the Insignificant Agricorps Padawan, we're talking about Revan "Republic general, war hero, Sith Lord, Destroyer of Jedi."

Again, if your comparing DARTH Revan to DARTH Sidious then Yoda's comment is wrong because
A) The Jedi historical information is unlikely to have complete information on Revan's activities while he was busy breaking, beating or otherwise destroying them which makes Yoda's judgement based entirely based on hearsay.
B) Revan isnt a Jedi in this context, thus isnt using the lightside of the force and thus he isnt a foe of the darkside rather than an embodiement of it just like Palpatine. In which case the only way to compare the two is by power hence the dilema with no concrete examples of Revan's power at this particular point except what we see in the game.

I still find myself confused as hell by the Jedi Masters about to massacre the guy who has spent the entire game saving their asses.

The Jedi Masters only attack the Exile if he killed at least one of them, which is understandable.

No, the Jedi Masters want to 'cut the Exile off from the Force' even if you went 'good' on them. The fact they draw their fucking lightsabers made me more than sure 'cut' meant 'kill'. Especially since the whole premise of KOTOR 2 was the Exile had originally been cut off from the Force and he blamed it on the Jedi Masters, who said they didnt know how to do such a thing. Then Kreia comes in and saves your ass by killing them all with her purple lightning strike before they gang bang you.

[TC Pilot]

For this really to be true we would really have to see Palpy wipe the floor with Yoda with no real effort. At no point in the battle should there be a chance where just a little change in luck means that Yoday wins.

Your opinion on what constitutes "wiping the floor" doesn't override a canon source.

But we dont see that. What we see is Palpy fleeing in the beginning. We see him surprised. We also see him lose the final dark lightning exchange between him and Yoda.

We also see Palpatine laughing throughout half the fight. This is still ignoring the fact that ROTS novelization > your interpretation of the movie.

If there positions had been physically reversed with Yoda back to the wall and Palpy back to open air then Palpy would have gone flying and falling and losing.

Except their positions weren't reversed, so it's meaningless.

If you were watching the same fight in the movie that I was watching then it is obvious that Palpy winning was obvious throughout the fight.

Concession accepted.

I am thinking Palpy got himself a bit of wood when that happened and if as has always been said the Dark Side runs on emotion and confidence then Palpy sure had a major boost to power his Force Lightning.

So you're saying Palpatine wasn't feeling anything while he was begging for them to spare his poor, helpless self or as Windu prepared to cut him in half, and thus couldn't access his power? Please.

All that information' is rather subjective given we dont know what she actually preserved or if it even found its way into Yoda's archives.

Ah, so because there's the possibility that the records are incomplete, they must have left out the records of the uber-powerful Revan, the most famous Jedi of the time period who caused the current situation.

The Exile's pilot dude didnt even know who the fuck Revan was or what side he fought on and he was supposed to be one of the people killing Jedi.

Your complete ignorance is rather obvious. Atton Rand knew Revan damn well. He served under Revan as both a Republic and Sith soldier.

It was also made clear in KOTOR 2 that a good deal of the galaxy didnt CARE who started the war or the differentiation between Jedi / Sith. From the common joe they were seen as the same thing hence you ended up with the Jedi hit squads.

The confusion over the Jedi/Sith distinction is completely irrelevant.

The chances of unbiased historical documentation coming out untouched in this period seems rather unlikely to me if it would ever be made at all to a degree that makes Yoda able to instantly say he is the most powerful Jedi in 25,000 years of history from words on a computer.

The Jedi Temple also contained the archives, the vast library that encompassed the Order's entire twenty-five millennia of existence: everything from the widest-ranging cosmographical surveys to the intimate journals of a billion Jedi Knights.

Maybe Anakin Skywalker didn't have the highest midi-chlorian count of any Jedi. After all, the records are incomplete!

A) The Jedi historical information is unlikely to have complete information on Revan's activities while he was busy breaking, beating or otherwise destroying them which makes Yoda's judgement based entirely based on hearsay.

See above.

B) Revan isnt a Jedi in this context, thus isnt using the lightside of the force and thus he isnt a foe of the darkside rather than an embodiement of it just like Palpatine. In which case the only way to compare the two is by power hence the dilema with no concrete examples of Revan's power at this particular point except what we see in the game.

You realize Revan was actually stronger than he was as Sith Lord by the end of KOTOR, right?

Let's end this once and for all, shall we?

[The Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Jesus, what is with these fucking Revan wankers?

[Havok]

Jesus, what is with these fucking Revan wankers?

It's what you get when you put video games into the canon.

[PREDATOR490]

B) Revan isnt a Jedi in this context, thus isnt using the lightside of the force and thus he isnt a foe of the darkside rather than an embodiement of it just like Palpatine. In which case the only way to compare the two is by power hence the dilema with no concrete examples of Revan's power at this particular point except what we see in the game.

You realize Revan was actually stronger than he was as Sith Lord by the end of KOTOR, right?

Let's end this once and for all, shall we?

[The Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side.

Sigh, I am not going to get into a hissy semantics fight over two games that have no measurable means of quantification of Revan's abilities both light and dark except two botched fights and a whole lot of conjecture.
The overall point of the thread, was Revan more powerful than Palpatine or Yoda in the force ?
The answer is obviously no. Something which I said from the start.

[Lord Revan]

to sum up this whole thread, like Predator has done

Was Revan a powerfull (for his time) Jedi, yes

Was he more powerfull then Yoda or Sidious, no

the truth of the matter is that what little we know about Revan points out that he wasn't neither the most powerfull jedi ever(as some people claim) nor a barely force sensitive agri-corp padawan (as some people seem to want to imply).

he was among the most powerfull Jedi of his time (though it should be noted that the war against Exar Kun had probably killed of quite a few of the more stronger Force users, making Revan seem more of an anomaly)

[Darth Ruinus]

that makes Yoda able to instantly say he is the most powerful Jedi in 25,000 years of history from words on a computer.

While I think this topic is pretty much settled, I want to remind you again that Yoda didnt say this, the narrator does.

[Sarevok]

to sum up this whole thread, like Predator has done

Was Revan a powerfull (for his time) Jedi, yes

Was he more powerfull then Yoda or Sidious, no

the truth of the matter is that what little we know about Revan points out that he wasn't neither the most powerfull jedi ever(as some people claim) nor a barely force sensitive agri-corp padawan (as some people seem to want to imply).

he was among the most powerfull Jedi of his time (though it should be noted that the war against Exar Kun had probably killed of quite a few of the more stronger Force users, making Revan seem more of an anomaly)

Agreed wholeheartedly. Revan is a better charcter as a flawed human being. Rather than a teen with demi god powers who angsts over Carth / Bastilla. Which is what some fan communities write him as...

The most annoying part of Revan wanking is it involves making all the other Jedi of his time stupid and weak. Now imagine movies like Scarface where the hero is swimming among sharks. When the hero has to face adversaries and comrades who are all extremely lethal and cunning it makes for a better story. So what's wrong with a smart Revan with above average powers who barely survived a dangerous period through luck and cunning ? Instead of you know Conan the Barbarian with a lightsaber some think he is.

[Lord Revan]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Revan is a better charcter as a flawed human being. Rather than a teen with demi god powers who angsts over Carth / Bastilla. Which is what some fan communities write him as...

The most annoying part of Revan wanking is it involves making all the other Jedi of his time stupid and weak. Now imagine movies like Scarface where the hero is swimming among sharks. When the hero has to face adversaries and comrades who are all extremely lethal and cunning it makes for a better story. So what's wrong with a smart Revan with above average powers who barely survived a dangerous period through luck and cunning ? Instead of you know Conan the Barbarian with a lightsaber some think he is.

well personally I think it's tied to some people's inability to admit that they might be flawed hence their avatars (like Revan as PC char(or John-117 from Halo) get wanked beond realm of belivibility, it's kind of sad.

especially since flawed characters who over come those flaws are actually stronger in a sence then those who didn't have those flaws.

[wjs7744]

It's just as easy to counter that Palpatine would never have put himself in that situation if Anakin had never shown up (as in, he threw the fight).

I'm sure that you are about to provide evidence that Palpatine threw the fight. You just forgot, right?

As for the Yoda quote, it's interesting but hardly enough to conclude that Palpatine is invincible.

Actually, yes it does. Try reading it again.

Yes, I read it again. It doesn't say anything about invincibility, just that he was more powerful than Yoda. What, you think the words would mean different things if I read them again?

Why the hell are people so quick to translate "more powerful that the Jedi" into "unlimited powerrrrr!"? Need I remind you that that was from Palpatine, not the narrator? You aren't going to tell me you took Palpatine's word for it, are you?

Would you kindly explain why you are any different than those who take "most powerful Jedi of his time" to mean "most powerful Jedi ever" regarding Revan? Or hell, even Trektards who strawman "more powerful than federation ships" into "THEY'RE INVINCIBLLLLE!".

Just because something is more powerful than another does not translate into invincibility, and all you have succeeded in doing so far is demonstrating that Palpatine is more powerful than the Jedi. I'm quite willing to conceed that now you have actually produced sources to back it up, but your sources to not support your bizarre leap of logic from "He's pretty damn powerful" to "He's INVINCIBLE!"

[TC Pilot]

I'm sure that you are about to provide evidence that Palpatine threw the fight. You just forgot, right?

One need only look at the novelization and the movie itself. Palpatine dispatches three Jedi Masters in short order, all of them capable fighters and powerful beings. Palpatine is able to continue the fight with Windu until Skywalke arrives, when he oh so conveniently gets kicked in the face and disarmed. And yet, even then, he still manages to unleash a torrent of Force Lightning that nearly overwhelms Windu. In the novelization, we see "'You're the Chosen One, Anakin,' Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapaad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade."

Is Palpatine "too weak" and helpless after this? No, of course not. Upon Anakin's amputation of Windu's arm, he oh so conveniently regains his lightning.

Palpatine's goal throughout is to drive Anakin to the Dark Side. Killing all four Jedi sent to overthrow him is not the way to do it.

Yes, I read it again. It doesn't say anything about invincibility, just that he was more powerful than Yoda. What, you think the words would mean different things if I read them again?

I apologize for overestimating your literacy and reading comprehension.

The quote explicitely labels Yoda "the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" and was no match for Palpatine. No enemy of Palpatine's was stronger than Yoda, and even he was utterly doomed to fail in a battle between the two.

Why the hell are people so quick to translate "more powerful that the Jedi" into "unlimited powerrrrr!"? Need I remind you that that was from Palpatine, not the narrator? You aren't going to tell me you took Palpatine's word for it, are you?

You apparently have absolutely no idea what you are talking. The quotation provided from the novelization quite explicitely demonstrates that Yoda, Palpatine's "most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe...ever known" could never defeat him.

Would you kindly explain why you are any different than those who take "most powerful Jedi of his time" to mean "most powerful Jedi ever" regarding Revan? Or hell, even Trektards who strawman "more powerful than federation ships" into "THEY'RE INVINCIBLLLLE!".

Because of the blindingly obvious fact of canonical statements that only the most obtuse of individuals fail to grasp? Because of a logically valid syllogism? Because of such statements as "The most powerful of these [Banite Sith Lords] was Darth Sidious" and "[The Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side" (Dark Side Sourcebook), "Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord ever" (New Essential Chronology).

Please do not attempt to lay blame so shamelessly for your inability to read a novel passage.

Just because something is more powerful than another does not translate into invincibility, and all you have succeeded in doing so far is demonstrating that Palpatine is more powerful than the Jedi.

Actually, I have demonstrated Palpatine was more powerful than "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known," a detail you seem determined to let fly right over your head. Pray tell, if Palpatine's most powerful enemy cannot (and it is important to note said enemy was doomed to failure before he was born) defeat him, who can defeat Palpatine?

Obviously, only Anakin could defeat him (as I have already said). Why? Simple. Anakin Skywalker is the only person who can balance the Force. Killing Palpatine balanced the Force. Therefore, only Anakin could kill Palpatine. It's just that simple.

I'm quite willing to conceed that now you have actually produced sources to back it up, but your sources to not support your bizarre leap of logic from "He's pretty damn powerful" to "He's INVINCIBLE!"

Actually, yes, the quote quite clearly does. There is no difference between "all his opponents cannot beat him" and "he is invincible." Of course, this is all at best utterly redundant, since you have already conceded that the two premises for my syllogism supporting my belief are true.