Shooting At US Uni

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2008-02-14 05:24pm

Breaking news. Extract follows.

BBC News wrote:A gunman is reported to have opened fire on students at a university near Chicago in the United States.

The local television station, CLTV, said 18 people were shot at Northern Illinois University, in De Kalb, 65 miles (100 km) west of Chicago.

Students who called in to local radio stations reported seeing a white male with a pistol and a shotgun.

Emergency services are at the scene and several people have been taken away in ambulances.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-02-14 05:48pm

Specifically, Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois. Apparently, it was a lecture class on geology. Reports are rather choppy and uncertain, but the weapon was either
- a shotgun, or
- a shotgun and a pistol

The police say the gunman is no longer a threat. Students report he's dead, which would certainly be consistent.

Reports of injured vary from 15-18, with some head and some leg wounds.

I don't think we'll have a really clear picture for a couple more hours yet.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2008-02-14 05:53pm

Wow, this is getting extensive TV coverage on exactly one network, CNN's Headline News.

However, here's an article from CNN:

Reports: Several people shot at Northern Illinois University

(CNN) -- At least two people have been shot and several injured shortly before 4 p.m. CT at Northern Illinois University outside Chicago, CNN affiliates are reporting

The gunman who opened fire in Cole Hall, a lecture building, is dead according to DeKalb police, the Chicago Sun-Times is reporting.

According to the Chicago Tribune, the DeKalb County coroner's office said no fatalities had been immediately reported.

A local hospital tells CNN affiliate CLTV that it expects to receive 15 patients and have so far treated at least two.

CLTV reports that Kishwaukee Medical Center in DeKalb is currently treating six people with head wounds.

A woman named Corrine described the scene to CLTV, saying she was "carried out" of Cole Hall by a "wave" of students running for their lives.

"When one of the kids said, 'This guy is shooting!' I just ran to the next building as fast as I could and hid in an empty classroom."

Officers responded to a call of shots fired on campus around 3 p.m., DeKalb County Sheriff Roger Scott told the Tribune.

A professor at the school said there was a person with a gun in Cole Hall, a large lecture hall in Watson Hall. Scott said it was possible the assailant may have taken his own life.

The University has ordered its student body to seek shelter and canceled classes Thursday.

"Its has been confirmed that there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance," the school said in a posting on its DeKalb campus Web site. "All classes are canceled on the DeKalb campus. People are urged not to come to campus."

A law enforcement official being briefed on the situation tells CNN that the shooter used at least a shotgun. The official declined to be identified further because the incident was still developing.

An ATF spokesman tells CNN some of its agents are already on the scene-- strictly in an assistance role. He says one of the things ATF agents would do is help trace the weapon or weapons used. An FBI spokesman says several of that agency's agents were also en route to the scene to assist.

DeKalb is 65 miles west of downtown Chicago and 45 minutes southeast of Rockford.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2008-02-14 06:03pm

Holy shit. I know someone there who got out of class just three hours before the gunman started shooting in the same classroom.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2008-02-14 06:06pm

i used to live in Dekalb....Man its a small world. That's one place I would have never thought something like this would happen.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-02-14 06:08pm

You know, maybe I'm wrong (i'm probly not though), but the more things like this happen the more I think it should be manditory for teachers in the US to undergo several hours a month of firearms training and carry a concealed handgun the caliber of which starts in at least ".4".

Now, I already know someone is going to say "But, Coffee, what if the teacher goes postal and shoot the students?" Thing is, the last 15 or so years I've seen things like this happen, it's always a student or some wackjob that does it, but never a teacher. At least not that I've ever heard of. If you know of a school shooting in the US that was commited by a teacher, let me know and I'll gladdly conceade the point. To me, having the faculty armed and ready to take down a would be rogue student or non-student wacko might just make these people think a little before they go on a rampage. At the very least it should cut down on the number of victims one of these dickheads can rack up before they off themselves or the cops finally get there and kill them.

I can ever see how it'll go down...

Teacher: "Ok, settle down class. Today we're going to learn about..."

Wacko: "I KILL YOU ALL!"

BLAM BLAM... BLAM.

Teach, reholstering their handgun: "Timmy, you have a cell phone? Call 911 and have them pick THAT up, please. Ok, now if everyone will open their text books to chapter three..."

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong, maybe not (probably not), but that to me would be the thing to do.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-02-14 06:32pm

Not again. Seriously, what is it about American schools that attract gun-toting loonies? Is it the faculties' "Just ignore them," attitude towards bullying? (I think that contributed to Cho Seung-Hui's mental health problems-- see here.) Is it stress? Is it negligent parents ignoring their children's mental health problems?

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2008-02-14 06:36pm

Shit, I live in the QC, so I am like 90 min away. This is fucked up. I wonder what actually happened?

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2008-02-14 06:38pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:You know, maybe I'm wrong (i'm probly not though), but the more things like this happen the more I think it should be manditory for teachers in the US to undergo several hours a month of firearms training and carry a concealed handgun the caliber of which starts in at least ".4".

That may be sensible, though it's pretty pathetic that the US is the only country on earth where this is even remotely necessary. But I can't see most university faculties going along with it. They'd be massive protests, strikes, walkouts etc.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2008-02-14 06:44pm

Am I the only one who doesn't even give a shit about these anymore?

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2008-02-14 06:48pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:You know, maybe I'm wrong (i'm probly not though), but the more things like this happen the more I think it should be manditory for teachers in the US to undergo several hours a month of firearms training and carry a concealed handgun the caliber of which starts in at least ".4".

All that would change is who gets shot first in the next school shooting (i.e., the teacher.) Sure, the gunman will be killed when other faculty turn up, but the sorts of people who execute these sorts of attacks tend to kill themselves anyway (thus nullifying the deterrent aspect.) Even if the gunman's rampage wound up being confined to one classroom, a motivated gunman could still put down a lot of students.

Now, I already know someone is going to say "But, Coffee, what if the teacher goes postal and shoot the students?" Thing is, the last 15 or so years I've seen things like this happen, it's always a student or some wackjob that does it, but never a teacher.

Probably because the teachers aren't armed. You're talking about a demographic of people who are largely under-appreciated, underpaid, overworked, and harassed by school administration, their own students, and the parents of "little" Johnny who can't wrap their brains around the concept that yes, their son really did use the phrase "crack-smoking donkey-fucker" in class the other day . . . and you want to give them guns? And surely, you must've known or heard of at least one teacher who got through the day via the bottle of Scotch she supposedly keeps in her desk. Imagine giving that lady a gun.

I admit, I'm likely engaged in hyperbole, but concealed-carry courses should only be offered to people with the inclination to do it right. The vast majority of teachers (and people in general) don't always have the sort of mindset conducive to be given the responsibility of carrying a loaded gun with the expectation that they might, someday, be required to present it and, gods forbid, shoot it at another human being.

To me, having the faculty armed and ready to take down a would be rogue student or non-student wacko might just make these people think a little before they go on a rampage.

Not really. The sort of person who conducts these sort of attacks tends to be suicidal to begin with. They want to take people with them and gain some measure of notoriety and fame that they would never have achieved had they lived out their dull, pathetic lives.

At the very least it should cut down on the number of victims one of these dickheads can rack up before they off themselves or the cops finally get there and kill them.

What happens when you shoot a gun at a bunch of people who aren't expecting it? Panic. Primitive flight-or-fight instincts take over, causing people to either freeze, or try to flee in mindless panic. It takes training to overcome this tendency and take useful action. Training that people outside of the military, law-enforcement, and dedicated CCW holders lack. The end result is a "target-rich" environment.

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong, maybe not (probably not), but that to me would be the thing to do.

No, not really. Most teachers wouldn't have the inclination or the mindset necessary to undergo the training and frequent practice required to make them useful in a stressful situation with a gun. Even if they were, the cost of training and arming them all would be money better spent elsewhere, since you're training them for an event which the vast majority of them will never, ever personally witness in a 20 or 30 year career.

Darth Mall · Post by **Darth Mall** » 2008-02-14 07:03pm

Dark Hellion wrote:Shit, I live in the QC, so I am like 90 min away. This is fucked up. I wonder what actually happened?

Same here. Everyone is calling friends from home trying to figure out if anyone they know was involved.

I don't think that someone having a CC would have helped this. What are they going to do, stand up in a crowded lecture hall and just start firing back?

Invictus ChiKen · Post by **Invictus ChiKen** » 2008-02-14 07:14pm

Flagg wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't even give a shit about these anymore?

Well honestly I only had two reactions to this/

"AGAIN!?"

and then

'I think I have just become a little less human.'

Seriously there are days I wonder why this shit doesn't bother me like it use to.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2008-02-14 07:25pm

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Flagg wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't even give a shit about these anymore?
Well honestly I only had two reactions to this/

"AGAIN!?"

and then

'I think I have just become a little less human.'

Seriously there are days I wonder why this shit doesn't bother me like it use to.

Mine was more along the lines of "Get back to me when someone shoots up an elementary school.", which is sad, but whatever. I mean these things haoppen. Crazy people do crazy shit.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-02-14 07:38pm

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:I admit, I'm likely engaged in hyperbole,

No more so than I was.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: but concealed-carry courses should only be offered to people with the inclination to do it right. The vast majority of teachers (and people in general) don't always have the sort of mindset conducive to be given the responsibility of carrying a loaded gun with the expectation that they might, someday, be required to present it and, gods forbid, shoot it at another human being.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying there. Hell, I even agree with it for the most part. As much as I'd love to see a (heavilly) armed and polite society, I know that just simply arming some teachers (and you're right, a lot of them are dildoheads), there isn't going to be any sort of silver bullet (yes, pun intended) cure for this sort of thing. It's not a problem of gun control or a problem of figuring out who the crazies are. It's a whole lot of little problems that combined set the stage for things like this.

Let's face it, we're a fucking violent society. As much as I think that if everyone thought the way I did things would go right, thing is, people don't all think like I do. So basically, we kinda screwed here.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Not really. The sort of person who conducts these sort of attacks tends to be suicidal to begin with. They want to take people with them and gain some measure of notoriety and fame that they would never have achieved had they lived out their dull, pathetic lives.

Yeah, even if arming teaches cut down on the number of victims, all that would really happen is these people would end up committing suicide by Faculty Member instead of suicide by cop or just offing themselves.

Though we could arm the Janitors. I mean, who the fuck really pays attention to the guy with the mop? He'd be like the perfect stealth security dude...

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:What happens when you shoot a gun at a bunch of people who aren't expecting it? Panic. Primitive flight-or-fight instincts take over, causing people to either freeze, or try to flee in mindless panic. It takes training to overcome this tendency and take useful action. Training that people outside of the military, law-enforcement, and dedicated CCW holders lack. The end result is a "target-rich" environment.

Yeah, unless they go through a lot of constant and consistant marksmanship practice and drills the puckerfactor would most likely make them freeze up.

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:No, not really. Most teachers wouldn't have the inclination or the mindset necessary to undergo the training and frequent practice required to make them useful in a stressful situation with a gun. Even if they were, the cost of training and arming them all would be money better spent elsewhere, since you're training them for an event which the vast majority of them will never, ever personally witness in a 20 or 30 year career.

Alright, man... That's just crazy talk right there. You stop making sense right now, Mister. That sort of thing is all unamerican and shit, yo.

But yeah, you're right.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2008-02-14 08:00pm

This has been all over the local news today, as I live about 15 minutes away. I have to agree with Isolder, this is about the last place I expected something like this would happen.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-02-14 08:36pm

Sidewinder wrote:Not again. Seriously, what is it about American schools that attract gun-toting loonies? Is it the faculties' "Just ignore them," attitude towards bullying? ....... Is it negligent parents ignoring their children's mental health problems?

I think those are two factors. Some others are things like the exorbitant cost of college these days combined with falling financial aid resulting in severe financial pressures. Parental pressure due to "we're paying bazillions for you to be in school, we better see results". With the pie shrinking for the average American everything is getting much more competitive and stressful. At a certain point kids in college these days wake up to the unpleasent fact that there is NO guarantee they'll be working anywhere better than Wal-Mart post-graduation, or even working at all, and a lot of them will be saddled with high debt for 20-30 years due to crazy student loans - not everyone reacts real well to this knowledge. And, of course, if your record is clean buying a long gun is no big deal, and in many places handguns are only slightly more difficult to obtain.

And while removing guns will remove gun violence I'm concerned that it won't necessarily stop killings. For example, switching to pipe bombs wouldn't be that difficult for someone bright enough to go to college and some of the shooters we've had in the past have at least flirted with the idea. We gain nothing if the whackos just change weaponry.

Of course, the media publicity is attractive to a certain variety of loser who is willing to kill or be killed for 15 minutes of fame.

While there was a college killing in Texas back in the ... it was either the last 1950's or the 1960's, the are becoming more common and that is VERY disturbing. Then again, US society in general has been getting threadbare for a decade or so, it's just that the cracks are getting harder to plaster over.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2008-02-14 09:14pm

They're airing a press conference on the local news right now. Apparently, the gunman wasn't a current student, but in spring 2007 had been enrolled as a grad student. Also, a few of the injured have now died of their injuries.

Darth Mall · Post by **Darth Mall** » 2008-02-14 09:20pm

News is saying 5 dead including gunman.

Apparently someone from my highschool that I sort of knew was shot, and had to have surgery, but seems to be ok.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2008-02-14 09:57pm

5 dead (including gunman), 17 injured. Some of the injuries are critical, so the number of fatalities may rise. Apparently some others have been released from the hospital already, so some were not so seriously hurt.

For you metric types who may not have translated the distance yet - this is about 100 km west of the city of Chicago.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2008-02-14 10:19pm

I am sorry someone you knew was shot. Does anyone know where I could find a list of the injured, if one is available yet. I would like to know if anyone I know was hurt. I am hoping they are not.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2008-02-14 10:36pm

Up until VA Tech I didn't even think that Columbine-styled school shootings would ever take place in college.

Darth Mall · Post by **Darth Mall** » 2008-02-15 01:12am

Dark Hellion wrote:I am sorry someone you knew was shot. Does anyone know where I could find a list of the injured, if one is available yet. I would like to know if anyone I know was hurt. I am hoping they are not.

Thanks. I haven't talked to her in years, but from I can tell she is ok. But her boyfriend was one of the ones killed

Everyone else I know who goes there seems to be fine though. I wouldn't be suprised if alot of people here at my school know or know of some of the victims since so many are from the chicago area

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2008-02-15 01:19am

What the hell is wrong the US and their guns?

Guns should be out of civilian hands. PERIOD.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2008-02-15 01:59am

ray245 wrote:What the hell is wrong the US and their guns?

Guns should be out of civilian hands. PERIOD.

Never going to happen.