Military Invention Only Worth $1000?

[LadyTevar]

February 17, 2008
'54 dog-tag suggestion worth more than $1,000, veteran says


CANVAS - Fifty-four years after Ray Pepalis first suggested that the military start printing RH factors on dog tags, U.S. Army officials have finally given him recognition for the idea.

Sort of.

Military bureaucrats put a value of $1,000 on the idea Pepalis believes might have saved thousands of lives over the past few decades.

"It's insulting," the 75-year-old Nicholas County man said from his home in Canvas. "To say that my suggestion was adopted in all the armed services and then give me $1,000 is a slap in the face."

Pepalis was an army corporal serving with a military police battalion at Fort Knox, Ky., in 1954 when he first suggested the army put RH factors on soldiers' dog tags. At the time, dog tags included a soldier's blood type, but not whether the blood had a positive or negative RH factor.

Dog tags - the metal identification discs all soldiers wear around their necks - now include RH factors. Pepalis came up with the idea after he and other Fort Knox soldiers were called upon to donate blood to help the victims of a major accident near the facility.

Accident victims were brought to the base for medical treatment. Many died as Army doctors went scurrying among potential donors trying to match blood types.

Pepalis wondered how many might have been saved if RH factors were simply printed on each soldier's dog tags. In November 1954, Pepalis shared his idea with Army bureaucrats through the Army Suggestion Program. The program provides for monetary rewards for soldiers who come up with ideas that save the military money, improve Army technology or save lives.

Initially, both Pepalis and his idea were rebuffed. Early in 1955, the Army sent Pepalis a letter thanking him for his idea, but saying the army would not be implementing his suggestion. Pepalis wonders if military officers weren't ashamed they hadn't thought of the idea themselves.

However, the military started including RH factors on dog tags during the Vietnam War.

Still, Pepalis got no official credit for the idea. Last year, he wrote to Sens. Robert C. Byrd and Jay Rockefeller, both D-W.Va., to see if he could get some recognition for his suggestion.

Military officials finally recognized Pepalis' contribution late last year. Using a compensation table from 1969, when the military started putting RH factors on dog tags, they decided the idea was worth $1,000.

Pepalis said he isn't concerned so much about the money, but thinks his idea should be worth more than $1,000.

"A thousand dollars in 1969 would have bought half a pickup truck," he said. "If I had invested that money, it would be $7,000 or $8,000 now."

But isn't $1,000 better than nothing?

"A thousand dollars is not better than nothing ...," Pepalis said. "It's the principle of the thing."

Jessica Stanton, a spokeswoman for Rockefeller, said the senator has been told how Pepalis feels. She said Rockefeller is looking into whether Pepalis should get more credit for the idea.

I think it's more 'about the money' than he's letting on, but still, only $1000 for the idea when it took them 40 yrs to recognize him for it?

[Soontir C'boath]

After all these years, he was finally recognized and they still spat him in the face with 1969 rates is what I think bothers him and would bother me as well.

$1000 back in 1969 would've done more than it does now.

[Mr Bean]

Adjust it for inflation for criss sake at least.
Then send him to the White-House to have the Joint Chief's get down and kiss his boots.

[Molyneux]

Adjust it for inflation for criss sake at least.
Then send him to the White-House to have the Joint Chief's get down and kiss his boots.

Hell, yes. I'd think a medal would be the least recognition he should get for something that simple and wide-reachingly effective.

[Sea Skimmer]

I’ve heard of that suggestion program before, and I’ve heard of soldiers getting tiny sums of money for a great many different small practical ideas, mostly related to vehicle maintenance, for example devising a form fitting cover to protect AC lines from being punctured when working on the engine of a Fox NBC recon vehicle. It seems to just be policy to only pay out small sums and to take no account of the true value of a suggestion.

[Phantasee]

It's insulting. Either give him a medal and no cash, or give him a fair value, like $1000 1969 USD, instead of $1000 2008 USD. The man deserves some dignity. It's like flipping a nickel at him and giving him a pat on the head.

[Aaron]

Give him the Meritorious Service Medal, that's what it's for. A bit of cash wouldn't hurt either but honestly if you come up with something like this you can't expect anything other than an award or a tiny amount of cash. You came up with the idea but they are in no way obligated to even recognise you. He's just lucky someone higher up the chain didn't claim it was their idea.

[Crazedwraith]

If the man is really that principled, shouldn't the fact it has saved so many lives be reward in and of itself?

[Singular Intellect]

If the man is really that principled, shouldn't the fact it has saved so many lives be reward in and of itself?

I was just about to say that...

[Alyrium Denryle]

If the man is really that principled, shouldn't the fact it has saved so many lives be reward in and of itself?

No one is really that principled.

[Flagg]

If the man is really that principled, shouldn't the fact it has saved so many lives be reward in and of itself?

Probably. But considering how much money defense contractors steal for dead end projects, I think throwing this guy a few hundred grand would be the decent thing to do. After all, this is America. Nothing says "thank you" like money.

[Darth Wong]

Jesus Fucking Christ, how many of you people have ever had jobs? Here's a news flash: when you come up with a job-related idea while working for someone else, your employer keeps the intellectual property, and you are not entitled to anything except for possibly a promotion in your future. Why should ideas from people serving in the armed forces be treated any differently? Do you think some guy who had a great money-saving idea while working on an assembly line at GM gets royalties for it?

[Flagg]

Jesus Fucking Christ, how many of you people have ever had jobs? Here's a news flash: when you come up with a job-related idea while working for someone else, your employer keeps the intellectual property, and you are not entitled to anything except for possibly a promotion in your future. Why should ideas from people serving in the armed forces be treated any differently? Do you think some guy who had a great money-saving idea while working on an assembly line at GM gets royalties for it?

Doesn't that depend on your employment contract?

[Soontir C'boath]

Pepalis wondered how many might have been saved if RH factors were simply printed on each soldier's dog tags. In November 1954, Pepalis shared his idea with Army bureaucrats through the Army Suggestion Program. The program provides for monetary rewards for soldiers who come up with ideas that save the military money, improve Army technology or save lives.

If they're going to bother implement a program giving money as a reward, then yes he should get it.

If the suggestion box at the GM plant say it's giving a thousand bucks for an implemented idea, you'd expect it but if it doesn't, then you don't.

[Darth Wong]

Pepalis wondered how many might have been saved if RH factors were simply printed on each soldier's dog tags. In November 1954, Pepalis shared his idea with Army bureaucrats through the Army Suggestion Program. The program provides for monetary rewards for soldiers who come up with ideas that save the military money, improve Army technology or save lives.

If they're going to bother implement a program giving money as a reward, then yes he should get it.

If the suggestion box at the GM plant say it's giving a thousand bucks for an implemented idea, you'd expect it but if it doesn't, then you don't.

If it doesn't promise any particular amount of money, I don't see what the justification is for cries of injustice.

[Flagg]

Pepalis wondered how many might have been saved if RH factors were simply printed on each soldier's dog tags. In November 1954, Pepalis shared his idea with Army bureaucrats through the Army Suggestion Program. The program provides for monetary rewards for soldiers who come up with ideas that save the military money, improve Army technology or save lives.

If they're going to bother implement a program giving money as a reward, then yes he should get it.

If the suggestion box at the GM plant say it's giving a thousand bucks for an implemented idea, you'd expect it but if it doesn't, then you don't.

If it doesn't promise any particular amount of money, I don't see what the justification is for cries of injustice.

hH seems to think that the amount he's compensated should be adjusted for inflation. I can kind of see where he's coming from, but really, it sounds like he's being a whiny bitch more than anything else. Especially since I doubt it was even his suggestion that got them to implement the RH identification on the dog tags.
Just from reading the article it looks to me like his idea was rejected, and someone else had the same idea at a later time and whoever was in charge then decided it was worth using. I'm thinking he should be grateful for getting recognition at all, really.

[Straha]

The army should do the right thing. Give him $1,000, adjust for inflation and then add interest for the time elapsed. Then give him a medal. It's the right thing to do. But beyond that? Unless the program was different than small sums for ideas implemented, nothing.

Also, I'm skeptical that it was his idea that was implemented. Look at the timing, he put in a suggestion in 1954 and his suggestion wasn't implemented until Vietnam. It's quite probable that the actual implementation was due to field hospital units reporting back that knowing the Rhesus factor of their patients blood from their dogtags would be very helpful and that Pepalis' idea was still nothing more than a letter in the archives.

[Flagg]

Lets go with the assumption that it wasn't even his submission that was used, but was done on the suggestion of another member of the military at a later date (which I think is likely). If that's the case, why the fuck should he get anything?

I mean all he did was submit a form to this suggestion office and his idea was rejected. For all we know it was rejected because he didn't present the idea clearly and properly.

[CmdrWilkens]

Lets go with the assumption that it wasn't even his submission that was used, but was done on the suggestion of another member of the military at a later date (which I think is likely). If that's the case, why the fuck should he get anything?

I mean all he did was submit a form to this suggestion office and his idea was rejected. For all we know it was rejected because he didn't present the idea clearly and properly.

Except that the Army agreed that it was HIS idea which was adopted.

[Aaron]

Except that the Army agreed that it was HIS idea which was adopted.

Sure but unless I'm out to lunch, their not obligated to give you anything. Hell there's probably something in the fine print of your contract stating that anything you come up with is theirs. Why else would there be a medal for this shit if they were going to pay you for it?

[Flagg]

Lets go with the assumption that it wasn't even his submission that was used, but was done on the suggestion of another member of the military at a later date (which I think is likely). If that's the case, why the fuck should he get anything?

I mean all he did was submit a form to this suggestion office and his idea was rejected. For all we know it was rejected because he didn't present the idea clearly and properly.

Except that the Army agreed that it was HIS idea which was adopted.

They probably just went through the files and found that he submitted the idea first and wanted to throw him some money in appreciation since they had a Senator making noise about it. I have a hard time believing that they held on to this guys idea for a dozen or more years and finally implemented it in Vietnam when it became apparent that listing the RH factors on dogtags was necessary.

Could be wrong, though. The military is renowned for being one of the more fucked up bureaucracies.