Allegations of plagiarism directed towards Obama

[Pu-239]

Allegations that Obama is plagiarizing seems to be making the front pages of a lot of news sites? To me, this seems reminiscent of what the media did with the "Dean scream", and plagiarism has brought a candidate down before (Biden). Thoughts?

[Chris OFarrell]

Give me a break. ALL these political speeches are copy and paste jobs from the same formula, have been since time started.

[Pu-239]

Well, obviously, I'm just wondering about the political consequences of this.

[CmdrWilkens]

Apparently he used a line about speeches being neccessarry precursors to action (and obviously the wording was much better than that) which were used by a guy in the '06 election. The thing is that Obama and the guy were apparently friendly on the hill s it may have been an unthought of plagarism but likely the result will be minor influence in Wisconsin then nothing. The only way it plays into a bigger story is if Clinton gets blown out. if that happens then Obama's team will be shouting "momentum" up and down the streets while Hillary's team will shout "plagarism" in order to avoid answering questions about 9 or 10 straight losses. Basically this is only a story if its not a tight race in Wisconsin (otherwise ALL the stories will be about the close race).

[HemlockGrey]

Its more horseshit from the Clinton camp. The accusation centers around some rhetorical device Obama supposedly lifted from a Deval Patrick speech. In actuality Patrick sent a few of his speechwriters to Obama and they used the same rhetorical device- which was sort of the point. Patrick himself criticized the Clinton camp.

Its just more proof that there's really no trick the Clintons won't employ in order to win the nomination.

[SirNitram]

Smell that fear. The wheels are off, the curtains drawn back, and the Wizard Of Oz is just a tiny little man. There was never political genius there; there was never machivellian control of message.

Breath deep that fear, and know it will spread through all of Clinton's apostles.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I love seeing these kind of news articles just...appear. There is no doubt to be had that its Clinton hatchet men at work.

[The Original Nex]

Obama borrowed a line from Massachusetts Governor Patrick, who TOLD Obama to use the line. Obama didn't credit Patrick, so the media, and the Clinton's are making a shit-storm out of it. It's a text-book example of a non-story that's being made into one.

[Pu-239]

Then again, in academia, presenting someone else's work even with permission without credit is plagiarism. That said, this is politics, not academia, happens all the time, so nobody should care. The question is will it stick- people here realize it's bullshit, but how will it influence the election amongst the general populace (which is more stupid); which Wilkins seems to have answered.

[FSTargetDrone]

Non-story:

The Wolfson Plagiarism Attack Is Ridiculous

Bob CescaMon Feb 18, 3:06 PM ET

Howard Wolfson is accusing Senator Obama of plagiarizing a speech passage from Governor Deval Patrick.

Wolfson said: "Sen. Obama is running on the strength of his rhetoric and the strength of his promises and, as we have seen in the last couple of days, he's breaking his promises and his rhetoric isn't his own."
Obama closely echoed a passage from a speech that Deval Patrick, now the Massachusetts governor, used at a campaign rally when he was running for that office in 2006.

Governor Patrick, however, says that he and Senator Obama have discussed this idea on the phone several times during the primary campaign. Nevertheless, this really is a desperate attack. After all, politicians repeat similar themes all the damn time. It's like attacking a politician for wearing a suit and a tie -- or a pants suit and pearls. You can get away with this kind of an attack, but it's not entirely genuine, and it's all too easy to counter-attack.

For instance, I looked up Senator Clinton's Jefferson-Jackson Dinner speech from last week. Here's a particularly familiar line:

"Are you ready to take back the White House..."

That sounds an awful lot like this one:

"...and then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House! YAAARRR!"

She could easily have said, "Are you ready to reclaim the White House?" But instead, she used the same words made famous by Howard Dean four years ago.

But that's small-time. Here's a major problem for Senator Clinton's campaign if her staff and surrogates really want to engage in this so-called "plagiarism" debate. At the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, Senator Clinton employed what's called "anaphora" -- a common technique of repeating a word or phrase for emphasis in a speech:

I see an America where we stand up to the oil companies...

I see an America where we say that 47 million people uninsured...

I see an America where we have schools worthy...

I see an America where college is affordable again...

And so forth. It was a seriously awesome section of her Jefferson-Jackson speech. It's a shame that (again, as long as the gloves are off and there has to be this ridiculous "plagiarism" debate) she lifted the "I see an America" anaphora from other politicians, including then-Governor Jimmy Carter. June, 1976:

I see an America poised not only at the brink of a new century, but at the dawn of a new era of honest, compassionate, responsive government.

I see an America with a tax system that does not steal from the poor and give to the rich.

I see an America with a job for every man and woman who can work, and a decent standard of living for those who cannot.

I see an America in which my child and your child and every child receives an education second to none in the world.

I see an America in which Martin Luther King's dream is our national dream.

I see an America on the move again, united, its wounds healed, its head high, a diverse and vital nation, moving into its third century with confidence and competence and compassion, an America that lives up to the majesty of its Constitution and the simple decency of its people.

I also discovered that the "I see an America" line has been used by Congressman Kucinich:

I see an America where equal access and equal rights are obtained by all

And John Edwards with the "I see and America" anaphora:

I see an America where last year the CEO of one of the largest health insurance companies in America made hundreds of millions of dollars in one year. I see an America where ExxonMobil's profits were $40 billion just a couple of years ago. Record amounts, record profits.

Hell, a Republican running for Congress in the New York 20th named John Wallace used the "I see an America" anaphora (pdf file -- there's a whole page of it, but Wallace is not worth quoting here).

What's the next attack, then? Senator Obama stole his haircut from whoever? Senator Obama's gestures are lifted from what's his name? Seriously, is this what Howard Wolfson and Mark Penn have been reduced to? Senator Clinton, if you really want to win this thing, you need to fire these guys.

They indeed borrow from each other.

This is hardly "plagiarism." Plagiarism is a big deal, but this isn't what is going on here.

[Pu-239]

Ah, didn't realize there was no lifting of large chunks of speeches, just phrases and themes.

[FSTargetDrone]

Ah, didn't realize there was no lifting of large chunks of speeches, just phrases and themes.

No worries. You know, the humorous thing is that Clinton's campaign was complaining about the very thing it was doing itself.

I'd be bothered if, as you say, entire passages were lifted, especially without getting permission from the original speaker. But he and Obama are friends, and on Countdown W/ Keith Olbermann tonight (no link or transcript yet), that angle was examined a bit more thoroughly, debunking this.

[Vympel]

I'm wary of calling every negative Obama story that comes out the part of some Machiavellian plot by the evil Clintons with no basis. What story doesn't just "appear" one day?

[Flagg]

It's time for the Democratic party to step in and put this bitch in the ground. She's fucking joining in with the GOP presumptive nominee in attacking Obama on this ridiculous public financing non-story. It's apparent that she will do anything to win no matter how much damage it will do to the party.

[Flagg]

I'm wary of calling every negative Obama story that comes out the part of some Machiavellian plot by the evil Clintons with no basis. What story doesn't just "appear" one day?

It didn't just appear, one of her hatchetmen was on a news show and accused Obama of plagarism.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I'm wary of calling every negative Obama story that comes out the part of some Machiavellian plot by the evil Clintons with no basis. What story doesn't just "appear" one day?

Where were all these stories before her do-or-die primaries? Why not before his winning streak?

[Patrick Degan]

Not only that, but it's sort of hard to credit the idea of the Clintons having that much grease with the American media establishment, who were practically acting as the GOP's stenographers all during Bill's presidency and just about all of Chimpus Caesar's. It is more likely a case that there is a co-incidence of interest at work here, combined with a media which is essentially trolling for a scandal to bump up their ratings. Manufactured controversy.

If there were a conspiracy at work here, it would be more logical for a rightist media to be aiming at nobbling Obama to pave the way for a Hillary ticket which would energise the Right out of sheer hatred.

[Vympel]

Where were all these stories before her do-or-die primaries? Why not before his winning streak?

You might have a point if Hillary was a media darling before Obama's winning streak. She wasn't and never will be. The press hates Hillary - I'd be more inclined to say they just hate the Democratic front-runner more than her at the moment.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'm with Vympel and Patrick, i seriously doubt the media, which has been feriously inhaling the Right's cock for decades, is being so tightly controlled by Hillary that she can just dictate stories to them like this. I mean, if that were the case, if a Democrat had that kind of medi apower, i doubt the word "swift boat" would mean what it does to most people today.

The media is attacking Obama because he's ahead. I'm all but positive if Clinton was ahead, they'd be at her throat too. Really, to me, it seems more like the Right is the one reeking of fear right now. I think they know that McCain isn't as beloved by the public as they hoped, and neither are they after the reign of George "Evil-Doer" Bush. They're swiping at any and all possible enemies, with Obama being the main one right now.

[HemlockGrey]

The plagiarism story comes directly from Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communications director. He brought it up in a conference call with reporters.

So, yeah, this comes directly from the Clinton camp. I don't know why anyone would regard "the media" as some monolithic entity with a will of its own.

[Glocksman]

There is a degree of herd mentality in the MSM, so if you can get the trendsetters on your side it helps.
That said, in this case I believe the MSM was pretty impartial as they reported on both the allegation {b]and the source of it[/b].

If the reporters or editors in question let their biases show, they either would have suppressed the story (pro-Obama) or reported it without attribution to the source (pro-Clinton, as the source would make anyone with half a brain say 'wait a minute').

As it is, the allegation was reported, the source was named, and we all know it's pretty much bullshit that falls way below Biden's lifting of lines from Neil Kinnock's speeches (which IMHO wasn't all that serious either).

IOW, I can smell the desperation from the Clinton camp all the way here in Indiana.

[Elfdart]

If Obama is guilty of "plagiarism", then so is every other politician who doesn't credit his or her speechwriters when they speak in public. And then only for people stupid enough to think that a stump speech is an academic exercise, or trying to pass itself off as one.

[Flagg]

Oh, this is classic!

Ghost Writing
Barbara Feinman Todd
September 2002

<Snip Irrelevant>

So before I would ultimately hang up the sheet for good, my client list would grow to include an African princess, a congresswoman, two senators, a first lady, a Middle East peace negotiator, and an erstwhile presidential candidate. The First Lady, Hillary Clinton, is the one, predictably, people still bring up to this day. The actual writing experience of working on It Takes a Village with Mrs. Clinton was not extraordinary in any respect. Together with our editor, we produced drafts in a round-robin style. We worked well as a team and things went about as smoothly as can be expected when you're producing a high-profile book in eight months and one of you is married to the leader of the free world. The problem came when Mrs. Clinton decided, for reasons still a mystery to me, not to acknowledge my help, or that of anyone else by name. Because the White House had issued a press release early on in the process stating that I had been hired to "help prepare the manuscript," when it was finished and there was no mention of me in the acknowledgments, the anti-Clinton forces went to town. The irony was that by not acknowledging me, rather than diminishing my role, she unwittingly elevated me to a sort of literary Joan of Arc with the likes of everyone from Don Imus to Maureen Dowd to Rush Limbaugh weighing in before Thank-YouGate blew over. Pundits had a field day opining how much of the book she had actually written. The truth was much more prosaic: Like any first lady, Mrs. Clinton had an extremely hectic schedule and writing a book without assistance would have been logistically impossible. The book, despite the fact that it was at best a mediocre political tract on the virtues of governmental responsibility in the raising of children through subsidized programs like Head Start, was a bestseller and its audio version won Mrs. Clinton a Grammy.

<Snip Irrelevant>

Barbara Feinman Todd coordinates the journalism offerings in the English Department at Georgetown University in Washington, DC and also runs GU's Summer Professional Writing Certificate Program. In addition to ghostwriting, her own work has appeared in several publications including The Washington Post and Glamour.

You gotta love it.

[Darth Wong]

The plagiarism story comes directly from Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communications director. He brought it up in a conference call with reporters.

So, yeah, this comes directly from the Clinton camp. I don't know why anyone would regard "the media" as some monolithic entity with a will of its own.

This does come from Clinton, but it's hardly unreasonable to say that the media has a will of its own. Its objective is to make money, and it will do whatever it needs to do, toward that end. Sometimes that might mean quietly supporting certain political movements, if those movements will make changes to the system which promote greater earning potential on the part of major media corporations (eg- the anti-regulation brigade which facilitated the massive media mergers of the last decade).

[CaptainChewbacca]

I havn't seen it in print, but I heard on the radio that Obama came out and said 'You know, you're right. He's my friend and I should've credited him with the idea for that.'

Which is, you know, an honest appology coming from a politician.