Flamethrowers

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wouldn't Thermobaric warheads function better than napalm given the explosive effects? The Russians have been using it quite frequently in Chechnya if I recall.

[Sea Skimmer]

Wouldn't Thermobaric warheads function better than napalm given the explosive effects? The Russians have been using it quite frequently in Chechnya if I recall.

It depends entirely on the target, as I already explained, FAEs are best against targets which are not dug in, and are a highly overrated niche weapon in general. In Afghanistan FAEs often proved to be almost useless against entrenched Mujahideen, the air blasts won’t crush trenches, and won’t kill the occupants unless they burst almost exactly overhead. Cluster bombs and very heavy iron bombs worked better. The former because of its much wider area of effect, the latter because it could land some distance from an entrenchment and still crush it. Napalm wont crush a trench or foxhole either, but it will flow into one.

[Vympel]

Thermobaric weapons are a niche weapon in so far as they're best used for demolishing fortifications, whether bunkers or makeshift ones - like buildings. When used against targets like that, it's like hitting the target with a large artillery shell (122mm +). Not so useful out in the open.

Anyway, Afghanistan is where the RPO-A made its name, by the time Chechnya came round it was already super popular.

[Stuart]

Certain kinds of entrenchments would be best attacked by napalm, but it’s fairly suicidal for aircraft deliver napalm tanks against any kind of anti aircraft fire, they must be dropped much lower and closer to the target then even unguided iron or cluster bombs. These days if you could locate the entrenchments precisely enough to napalm them, then you’d just end up dropping JDAM from 15,000ft.

Napalm is still pretty useful for taking out widespread area fortifications like tunnel complexes etc because it consumes all the oxygen in the area and suffocates people. It's also marvellous for taking people in the open out. But, essentially, you're right. The problem with napalm is that it has to be dropped low and relatively slow and that's suicidal in an environment where shoulder-fired MANPADS are commonplace. These days, the rule is to stay above 15,000 feet where there is a serious danger of anti-aircraft fire and, from up there, napalm is useless.

Cluster bombs are better then FAEs BTW for hitting entrenchments, because they cover way bigger areas. FAEs are best for destroying soft targets located above ground level, like say a bunch of warehouse buildings. This plays to the FAEs advantage of producing a not particularly strong air blast over a wide radius.

Pretty much anything is better than an FAE, the dud rate on those things goes way over 50 percent. If an FAE works it works OK but all to often it doesn't.

The last recorded use of flamethrowers on a major scale was in 1973 when the Egyptian infantry used them (plus flamethrowing tanks) to clean out the Bar Lev line fortifications along the Suez canal. I also happen to know that they've been used in Thailand to burn quantities of opium seized by the army.

[Sidewinder]

I also happen to know that they've been used in Thailand to burn quantities of opium seized by the army.

Would this put the Thai soldiers in danger of getting high on the burnt opium?

[Gullible Jones]

Uh... gas masks?

[Stuart]

Would this put the Thai soldiers in danger of getting high on the burnt opium?

As Gullible remarks, the troops were wearing gas masks. What was interesting was the number of villagers who were standing downwind and breathing deeply.

[Zixinus]

Or did the advancement of other weapons simply made them obsolete?

The flamethrower was not a very good weapon to begin with, and it barely had place in old trance warfare. It's most powerful effect is psychological, not physical. From what I read, it was originally meant to clear bunkers. Now, they have grenades aplenty for that. In fact, I am unsure what was its original purpose to begin with.

The only use I can see, is crude but highly effective sterilizer like in the case of Evil Space Viruses or invading aliens that insist of using organic technology as building material, especially as organic armour. Skin burns sooo good.

Would there be any advantages to using something 'futuristic' like plasma?

Pointless. Plasma is hot gas. It would also be quite dangerous to the user, as how plasma expands is not exactly that predictable. Furthermore, plasma would disperse much more quickly then using liquid.

Personally, I would say that a super-powerful watergun spitting water at the Mach-1 or faster might be more practical. Raw ammo is plentiful and you only have to keep the pressure "on" (which might be a more difficult task then to just carry around some extra ammo, but meh).

Basically I was thinking of all those settings where flamethrowers are popular like 40k, where principle enemies are monster that save you the trouble by running towards you.

They already invented automatic shotguns, along with machine guns. I also recall seeing shotguns that can be added to your standard assault rifle like a granade launcher.

And most space aliens/monsters seem unafraid of fire, and if they are running towards you, then you might also catch fire.

[redmagister]

the flamethrower is almost entirely obsolete however it does have on use that seems to be ignored, it's terrifying, when your in a crowd control situation and the mob is out for blood if your not to concerned about human rights firing a flamethrower into the crowd then wading in with chainsaws and cattle prods set to stun the ones you stun torture for informatio then execute publicly would A. crush all resistance in that crowd B. establish you as the most brutal dictator in the world who should not be fucked with and C. put such a fear in the people that protest could be stamped on. after all of this all you need is a secret police and send plenty of oil to America and chances are your rule could last a long time.

that's just a hypothetical situation, I in no way condone the actions of savage maniacle dictators.

[redmagister]

and if you do care about human rights then fire it into the air and most of the people will flee. a fifty foot long plume of blazing napalm would make me run and in fact anyone with a sense of self preservation.

[FSTargetDrone]

and if you do care about human rights then fire it into the air and most of the people will flee. a fifty foot long plume of blazing napalm would make me run and in fact anyone with a sense of self preservation.

Uh... I would think tear gas or a water cannon would make a lot more sense...

[Feil]

the flamethrower is almost entirely obsolete however it does have on use that seems to be ignored, it's terrifying, when your in a crowd control situation and the mob is out for blood if your not to concerned about human rights firing a flamethrower into the crowd then wading in with chainsaws and cattle prods set to stun the ones you stun torture for informatio then execute publicly would A. crush all resistance in that crowd B. establish you as the most brutal dictator in the world who should not be fucked with and C. put such a fear in the people that protest could be stamped on. after all of this all you need is a secret police and send plenty of oil to America and chances are your rule could last a long time.

that's just a hypothetical situation, I in no way condone the actions of savage maniacle dictators.

'

Oh, look, an internet tough guy whose English sucks. And he thinks cattle prods are phasers. How cute.

[Ritterin Sophia]

They already invented automatic shotguns, along with machine guns. I also recall seeing shotguns that can be added to your standard assault rifle like a granade launcher.

The XM26 LSS on an M4.


Also, the AA-12 on Future Weapons. At 6:20 it becomes the the first Bolter.

[Aaron]

the flamethrower is almost entirely obsolete however it does have on use that seems to be ignored, it's terrifying, when your in a crowd control situation and the mob is out for blood if your not to concerned about human rights firing a flamethrower into the crowd then wading in with chainsaws and cattle prods set to stun the ones you stun torture for informatio then execute publicly would A. crush all resistance in that crowd B. establish you as the most brutal dictator in the world who should not be fucked with and C. put such a fear in the people that protest could be stamped on. after all of this all you need is a secret police and send plenty of oil to America and chances are your rule could last a long time.

that's just a hypothetical situation, I in no way condone the actions of savage maniacle dictators.

Riot control is a very tricky undertaking. If the crowd loses it, then carefully applied force may bring it under control. Too much and you make it worse. Burning the crowd with a flamethrower is not a very good idea for the later reason. And then you can heap the human right reasons onto it.

Leave this shit for North Korea and WH40K.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Pointless. Plasma is hot gas. It would also be quite dangerous to the user, as how plasma expands is not exactly that predictable. Furthermore, plasma would disperse much more quickly then using liquid.

To add, Plasma is going to cause air to "adiabatically" expand and explode in front of the user. So no, not a good idea.

[redmagister]

the flamethrower is almost entirely obsolete however it does have on use that seems to be ignored, it's terrifying, when your in a crowd control situation and the mob is out for blood if your not to concerned about human rights firing a flamethrower into the crowd then wading in with chainsaws and cattle prods set to stun the ones you stun torture for informatio then execute publicly would A. crush all resistance in that crowd B. establish you as the most brutal dictator in the world who should not be fucked with and C. put such a fear in the people that protest could be stamped on. after all of this all you need is a secret police and send plenty of oil to America and chances are your rule could last a long time.

that's just a hypothetical situation, I in no way condone the actions of savage maniacle dictators.

Oh, look, an internet tough guy whose English sucks. And he thinks cattle prods are phasers. How cute.

oh look an internet elitist who thinks that by insulting me he can somehow assert dominance how predictable. if the idea is dumb then say it's dumb like everyone else or heaven forbid explain why it's dumb. I admit it's a dumb idea, I didn't think when I posted and yes a water hose and tear gas would probably be more effective.
dominance.

[Ryan Thunder]

[..]At 6:20 it becomes the the first Bolter.

Holy shit.

[FSTargetDrone]

Riot control is a very tricky undertaking. If the crowd loses it, then carefully applied force may bring it under control. Too much and you make it worse. Burning the crowd with a flamethrower is not a very good idea for the later reason. And then you can heap the human right reasons onto it.

Leave this shit for North Korea and WH40K.

Absolutely right. And even if were were to hypothetically ignore the morality of using such a weapon against a crowd, just imagine how many innocent people could be caught up in this horror show. Fire seems grossly excessive. Did you happen to see any of the recent footage from Belgrade, with the protesters moving through the streets of the city? Imagine people, in a similar area, on fire running around, potentially spreading the fire to buildings. The situation could very quickly get out of control.

Hell, firing into a crowd with rubber bullets seems like a much more sensible idea, compared to using a flame weapon.

[Aaron]

Absolutely right. And even if were were to hypothetically ignore the morality of using such a weapon against a crowd, just imagine how many innocent people could be caught up in this horror show. Fire seems grossly excessive. Did you happen to see any of the recent footage from Belgrade, with the protesters moving through the streets of the city? Imagine people, in a similar area, on fire running around, potentially spreading the fire to buildings. The situation could very quickly get out of control.

Hell, firing into a crowd with rubber bullets seems like a much more sensible idea, compared to using a flame weapon.

I don't watch the news. Though I can imagine the international backlash if you melt down a crowd of demonstrators.

[Zixinus]

Absolutely right. And even if were were to hypothetically ignore the morality of using such a weapon against a crowd, just imagine how many innocent people could be caught up in this horror show. Fire seems grossly excessive. Did you happen to see any of the recent footage from Belgrade, with the protesters moving through the streets of the city? Imagine people, in a similar area, on fire running around, potentially spreading the fire to buildings. The situation could very quickly get out of control.

Not to mention that fire SPREADS! Spreads to buildings and even your own people. You might accidentally burn the very town you are in.

Furthermore, I think redmagister was joking. As if the horrible deaths of crowd panic is funny.

[Elfdart]

The last recorded use of flamethrowers on a major scale was in 1973 when the Egyptian infantry used them (plus flamethrowing tanks) to clean out the Bar Lev line fortifications along the Suez canal.

I thought the Egyptians used firehoses and high-pressure seawater to wash away the Israeli defensive positions.

[KlavoHunter]

Admittedly, people will think twice before protesting against you if the last batch of protesters were hit with flamethrowers and an utter lack of mercy.

[Stuart]

I thought the Egyptians used firehoses and high-pressure seawater to wash away the Israeli defensive positions.

Not quite. Teh Bar Lev line consisted of a large embankment which was supposed to stop crossings reinforces by a line of pill-box complexes behind that bank whichw ere suppose dto act as bases for attacks against teh invaders as they struggled through the embankment. The Egyptians washed away the embankment with firehoses then their combat engineers proceeded to take down the pillbox fortifications with blowtorch and screwdriver (flamethrowers and satchel charges). I have heard (no verification) that the comms lines to the rear were open when the Israeli troops were being burned out of (or rather burned in) their fortresses and the sound effects were why the Israeli tankers launched such ill-prepared and incompetent counter-attacks.

[Uraniun235]

Admittedly, people will think twice before protesting against you if the last batch of protesters were hit with flamethrowers and an utter lack of mercy.

Indeed. They might think to bring weapons of their own next time - or to skip the "protest" step and go straight to bombing police stations and army barracks.

[SylasGaunt]

Not to mention flamethrowers are a more practical weapon in 40K because they've done a lot better job at miniaturizing them than we have. Even then they're situational weapons, good sometimes and not on others.