How much Science will it take to kill religion?

[Baal]

Simple enough question.

Barring the evangelical and other extremists who appear to be born with only a small percent of actual brains, how much more science do you think it will take before the general concept of God and religion finally get thrown to the side along with other bunk concepts like Astrology, Alchemy, and magic?


Will we ever get there? As it is I fail to understand how anyone with any decent amount of critical thinking ability can actually read the Bible or any other religous book and think there is any sort of truth inside.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Depends what you mean by the application of science. Do you mean to ask how well must a general knowledge of science be disseminated throughout the public, or are you asking how much wide-scale neurosurgery has to be done before the problem is fixed?

[NoXion]

I think that science is not up to the job of "killing" religion - science is only a part of society and culture, both of which have to change in order for religion to die.

[Oskuro]

None.

What is needed to kill religion is education. Most of the religious devotees in the world are people who simply know no more, their ignorance of the world beyond their indoctrination is their cage.


And yes, science should be taught as part of a general education, but I meant education more in the broad sense, than just specific scientific subjects.

[Surlethe]

What is needed to kill religion is education. Most of the religious devotees in the world are people who simply know no more, their ignorance of the world beyond their indoctrination is their cage.

Bingo. We can have all the science we want; if common people don't understand the basics of science and consequently realize that they need to defer to experts, there will be no change in the greater society with respect to religion.

And yes, science should be taught as part of a general education, but I meant education more in the broad sense, than just specific scientific subjects.

I think people need to be particularly educated in empiricism and the underlying scientific philosophy. Once they understand and have intuited that, they will be much more capable of understanding why science reaches the conclusions it does.

[Ariphaos]

None.

What is needed to kill religion is education. Most of the religious devotees in the world are people who simply know no more, their ignorance of the world beyond their indoctrination is their cage.


And yes, science should be taught as part of a general education, but I meant education more in the broad sense, than just specific scientific subjects.

The point is worth thirding, or forthing. Science is not something you have an amount of, science is a process. Education is something you have an amount of, and in particular, the correct kinds of education: logic, critical thinking, mathematics, and a solid foundation of basic concepts like the scientific method and what a theory is.

[Junghalli]

I think that science is not up to the job of "killing" religion - science is only a part of society and culture, both of which have to change in order for religion to die.

I agree with this. Pretty much any imaginable amount of science will leave room for some sort of religion; the trick to eradicating religion would be to make the general public realize that it's radically implausible and basically serves no vital purpose.

[Darth Wong]

Even a wondrous education can't overcome brainwashing from infancy.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

This idea of science 'killing' religion is actually quite funny.

Then again, so is, 'Teach science and logic to people to kill religion!' The existence of dozens of prestigious and competitive Jesuit science universities which have not transformed their students into Atheists en masse (via magic, one would presume) seems to disprove that theory, since it's not like the rules of the Scientific Method and Empiricism are hidden from new students by the EVOL CATHOLIC CHURCH!!11's indoctrination into astrophysics and such.

[Superman]

Even a wondrous education can't overcome brainwashing from infancy.

I think that about sums it up. To state that religion is merely a consequence of ignorance is a vast oversimplification. It may be a contributing factor, but so is human psychology, no amount of reason or logic can break down someone's fantasy.

[Spyder]

None unless you go for the neuro-surgery idea. Even if we somehow eliminated all religion right now, it would only crop up again as people are simply hard-wired to believe what they prefer to be true (don't ask me why, mass suicide of caveman realists maybe?).

Education can help manage the problem, but it'll never go away.

[Shroom Man 777]

Improving the quality of human life will help wash religion out. Religion is strongest in insular areas where poverty or ignorance is highest. Religion is weakest in places where people are fat, decadent, rich and irreverent.

[Darth Servo]

For most, its not a question of how much science. Its a question of how much intelligence. The idiot fundy will always deny the evidencne, no matter how much and how obvious. And unfortunately, the stupid fundies will always out-breed the intelligent people because its their god-given mandate to do so.

[Sea Skimmer]

Unless you find a way to take away the human fear of death, religion is always going to reappear no matter how well you might think you’ve exterminated it.

[K. A. Pital]

Practical immortality or radical prolongation of lifespan (even on the order of 1000 years), commonly available for all humanity, will put a decisive end to the current Abrahamic religions - however, other religions and belief systems can survive that. Many can thrive into the future.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Well, how much science would go into building enough nukes and other high damage weapons that could effectively eliminate all human life on the planet? That's about the only way science and education can effectively "kill" religion.

To reduce the prevalence of the more pernicious aspects of religion, or the anti-intellectual aspects (which are-and can become-incredibly pernicious in their own rights)? Basically an entire life-time of good quality education, which would include critical thinking skills. Even then, there's going to be people who will cling to out-dated beliefs. Amoral people with a lot of charisma will always be around to prey upon the foolish. See: The vaccines idiots.


I was only half-joking when I said that it'd take the extinction of mankind to truly wipe out religion. I've seen too many examples of people who hold irrational beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to believe that we'll see and end to religion while this rock is still inhabited by humans or creature with a similar thought pattern to humans.

[Guardsman Bass]

Science alone probably could not kill religion, and while education will hurt it, it won't kill it either. I think what you need is a combination of a mass disenchantment with organized religion, period, combined with something that can fill the "identity" and "meaning of life" roles of religion while actively competing against it in those particular human niches.

[K. A. Pital]

Immortality, cult of science and a spread of humanist ideology (men like gods or something) could kill the majority of Abrahamic religions and those which hold to silly god beliefs.

However, with more philosophic stuff like Bhuddism, Confucianism, etc. I doubt it would do much.

[Oskuro]

To state that religion is merely a consequence of ignorance is a vast oversimplification.

Indeed, but ignorance does make it easier to indoctrinate. The hardcore zealots will fervently hold on to their faith, but for most of the believers out there even a basic education would do wonders.

Even a wondrous education can't overcome brainwashing from infancy.

Agreed, that's why the point is to educate children so they can make their own decisions when they grow up... And that's why religious groups insist so much on bringing their faith to the schools, they need to indoctrinate them from an early age to make sure they'll stick around once they're old enough to make their own choices.

[Darth Wong]

Even a wondrous education can't overcome brainwashing from infancy.

Agreed, that's why the point is to educate children so they can make their own decisions when they grow up... And that's why religious groups insist so much on bringing their faith to the schools, they need to indoctrinate them from an early age to make sure they'll stick around once they're old enough to make their own choices.

Their indoctrination begins well before the children even set foot in a school.

[Flagg]

Even a wondrous education can't overcome brainwashing from infancy.

Agreed, that's why the point is to educate children so they can make their own decisions when they grow up... And that's why religious groups insist so much on bringing their faith to the schools, they need to indoctrinate them from an early age to make sure they'll stick around once they're old enough to make their own choices.

Their indoctrination begins well before the children even set foot in a school.

It begins well before they set foot on anything. These fuckers start before the kids can even talk. And they're told to do well in school, but not to believe any science that conflicts with their religious beliefs, anyway.

[Starglider]

The existence of dozens of prestigious and competitive Jesuit science universities... indoctrination into astrophysics and such.

They may teach astrophysics but I bet they don't teach evolutionary psychology.

or are you asking how much wide-scale neurosurgery has to be done before the problem is fixed?

Finally, a good use for all those surplus borg nanoprobes. 'Half of their population will be vaccinated against religion before they even realise what's happening'.

[Invictus ChiKen]

The existence of dozens of prestigious and competitive Jesuit science universities... indoctrination into astrophysics and such.

They may teach astrophysics but I bet they don't teach evolutionary psychology

You'd be suprised. The Vatican has actually come down on the side of evolution. Theistic Evolution to be exact.

All that's really happened is that science has become a means of describing how God did things.

[Junghalli]

Improving the quality of human life will help wash religion out. Religion is strongest in insular areas where poverty or ignorance is highest. Religion is weakest in places where people are fat, decadent, rich and irreverent.

Another good point. I think the decline in religion in the modern West has as much if not more to do with rising standards of living than with increasing scientific knowledge (though, of course, the former is a direct result of the latter). If you think of what the life of a typical preindustrial peasant was like it's no surprise that they'd grab religion like a drowning man grabs a life vest. If your life isn't pretty much guarenteed to be nasty, brutish, and short the idea of sacrificing your happiness now for a promised paradise after death becomes less attractive. If you don't have to worry about a famine if your crops fail the idea that you need to appease some invisible being that controls the weather loses its force. If you can take antibiotics to cure a potentially fatal infection you stop furiously begging God to have mercy on you and let you live because that's not your last desperate hope anymore.

[Starglider]

You'd be suprised. The Vatican has actually come down on the side of evolution. Theistic Evolution to be exact.

For biology, sure, but a thorough review evolutionary psychology pretty much lays bare the exact reasons why humans are so susceptible to believing in magic sky pixies. Though I wouldn't put it past the Catholic church to say 'of course, God made humans vulnerable to religious memes on purpose, so that we'd find it easier to believe in him'. One of the most sickening tautologies I can imagine.