Matter prologue online

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 04:51am

Here we go: http://www.orbitbooks.net/matter-extract

I'm honestly hesitant as to whether I'll order the book now or not. I don't get a good vibe from the prologue. I think I'll wait for the first reviews. Because considering how long I've been waiting for this one, I don't want to head for a heart-crushing disappointment.

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2008-01-28 06:18am

I have no patience, thus I already have the book on my to read pile.
I will probably start reading it today, after last weeks Perry Rhodan.

However I'm rather sure that I will enjoy it as I also enjoyed the Algebraist and his non-SF books.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2008-01-28 11:14am

It looks interesting, Bank's prologues are usually very weak in fact (He's the type of writer who needs a quarter of a book to "Warm up").
I'll definetly order this as I planned to, as soon as I can acquire it...somehow.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 12:16pm

I am reading it now. So far, 2/3s of the way in, it's excellent. Highlights include the Morthanveld, an equivtech civilisation that is 'on the verge of going Culture' (Minor spoiler) The Morthanveld Commonwealth is substantially larger than the Culture. Their most populous 'world,' the Nestworld Syaung-un, has a population greater than that of the Culture, and is essentially a ringworld containing forty trillion people. As the Morthanveld are an aquatic race, not only does Syang-un have the surface area of a ringworld, it is also has much more habitable volume

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 12:59pm

Ah then I'm reassured. Ordering it now

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 01:00pm

The Nomad wrote:Ah then I'm reassured. Ordering it as soon as my exams are over ...

Corrected. Though I know that I won't resist the temptation

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 01:57pm

Just came across an interesting bit. Being inside a four (plus one) dimensional construct does indeed stop effectors spying on you, it seems. I've speculated this with regards to TARDISes before, but it's nice to have your hypotheses confirmed.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 01:57pm

NecronLord wrote:Just came across an interesting bit. Being inside a four (plus one) dimensional construct does indeed stop effectors spying on you, it seems. I've speculated this with regards to TARDISes before, but it's nice to have your hypotheses confirmed.

Then how do effectors affect Minds?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 01:58pm

The Nomad wrote:Then how do effectors affect Minds?

Only parts of Minds are four dimensional. Presumably they get the 'surface' of it.

Minor-spoiler Specifics:

To ensure privacy from the Morthenveld, some Special Circumstances agents and a semi-independant avatar go into a cavity in the engine of a Culture habitat in the Morthenveld ringworld, and have it sealed behind them. It's explained to some (non SC) characters that "It is hard to explain, but where we are now exists in a manner that makes it impossible for the Morthanveld to eavesdrop upon us."
"The engine exists in four dimensions [...] closed, even to a ship."

Presumably it actually has to be totally isolated like this for it to be effective. A Mind could perhaps shield itself in the same way, but to do anything, it would have to actually interact with the outside universe.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 02:10pm

Drats, I'll stop reading this thread, owing to the fact that I can't resist the urge to read spoilers

(but you do like to tempt me, do you

?)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 02:12pm

Don't worry. When I say minor. I mean it. I've made sure to only mention one little plot element there.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2008-01-28 02:44pm

NecronLord wrote:Presumably it actually has to be totally isolated like this for it to be effective. A Mind could perhaps shield itself in the same way, but to do anything, it would have to actually interact with the outside universe.

I'm pretty sure Excession already shows that (ie Hubs being "besieged" by the Affront).

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2008-01-28 04:23pm

I'm really enjoying the book, I'm 1/3 in so far and it's quite entertaining.

Where is the Shellworld stuff from anyway? It's not the first time I have read of such a strange artificial planet.

::looks for the time traveling evil overlords from Andromeda::

[Size tags inserted as it's sort of a spoiler ~NL]

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 04:34pm

The Nomad wrote:I'm pretty sure Excession already shows that (ie Hubs being "besieged" by the Affront).

I just assumed that Afrronter effectors were a bit shit.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 04:37pm

Luzifer's right hand wrote:Where is the Shellworld stuff from anyway? It's not the first time I have read of such a strange artificial planet.

::looks for the time traveling evil overlords from Andromeda::

Well, they're quite different from that. Perhaps 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth' is what you're thinking of...

What gets me, is... why did they ever need to put a shield around the entire galaxy? That raises some nasty questions about what might be lurking out there...

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2008-01-28 04:48pm

NecronLord wrote: Well, they're quite different from that. Perhaps 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth' is what you're thinking of...

What gets me, is... why did they ever need to put a shield around the entire galaxy? That raises some nasty questions about what might be lurking out there...

There is a similar shellworld in the Perry Rhodan series, multiple levels connected with Pylons. It's also a deadly trapworld.

The shield stuff is certainly interesting, maybe indeed evil Andromedans?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-01-28 05:11pm

Luzifer's right hand wrote:There is a similar shellworld in the Perry Rhodan series, multiple levels connected with Pylons. It's also a deadly trapworld.

Cool. Probably an inspiration then.

The shield stuff is certainly interesting, maybe indeed evil Andromedans?

Indeedy...
It'd be interesting, but not really with the tone of the series so far, to see a tale of the Culture's expedition getting there and finding something like the Empire of Azad writ large.

Also, if I may ask, what's your current avatar? She reminds me of one of the Dr Who companions...

Luzifer's right hand · Post by **Luzifer's right hand** » 2008-01-28 05:38pm

NecronLord wrote:
Luzifer's right hand wrote:There is a similar shellworld in the Perry Rhodan series, multiple levels connected with Pylons. It's also a deadly trapworld.
Cool. Probably an inspiration then.

They cylce in question was never published in English, I was more thinking that there is maybe a common inspiration. /quote]

NecronLord wrote: Also, if I may ask, what's your current avatar? She reminds me of one of the Dr Who companions...

Mondra Diamond(or Agalija Teekate her "real" name) a major character form the Perry Rhodan series. The funky thing is the she is the current companion of the character and has traveled trough time. some

It's from this cover made the the artist Dirk Schulz

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2008-02-13 07:32pm

I've bought at half-price at the Bristol branch of Waterstones roughly last week. I properly started reading in the last couple of days, and I've already bombed through the first part already; the Shellworld would be an excellent setting for a Final Fantasy game, with the mixture of fantasy and sci-fi, and the Sarl being wacky steam punk knights riding about on faux dragons.

Oh, and on the 26th this month, Iain M. Banks himself is coming round for a public signing in my town, so I'll be there.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2008-02-19 03:44pm

NecronLord wrote: Well, they're quite different from that. Perhaps 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth' is what you're thinking of...

What gets me, is... why did they ever need to put a shield around the entire galaxy? That raises some nasty questions about what might be lurking out there...

Well there is another possible reason for the Shellworlds:

Page 563 - "Humans," a deep, sonorous voice said to all of them, "the Shellworld machines were built to create a field eclosing the galaxy. Not to protect but to imprison, control, annihililate. I am a liberator, as were all those who came before me, however vilified. We have set you free by destroying these abominations. Join me, do not oppose."

You know for such a mighty artificial being comparable in power and sophistication to a Culture Mind, the Iln creature has a funny way of trying to coheres people to it's cause by blowing them up or fatally irradiating them.

As soon as that Iln in the form of a giant grey cube demanded that the smaller black cubes be joined up with it, I thought to myself loudly "DON'T OPEN UP THE MYSTERIOUS BOX ARTEFACT, MORONS! Haven't any of you seen Raiders of the Lost Ark?!

And while I like the book cover art for Matter, I miss the cover art by Mark Salwowski (who's best piece of cover art was for Consider Phlebas), and Matter itself has many weird and gigantic locations that would be vividly depicted in a old school book cover (ie Holse and Ferbin & Holse flying past one of the Towers on caudes, Sursaman's twisted Machine Core, the entire Sarl army a small line against the violently steep veins of Bare, or micro-Orbital 512th Degree FifthStrand a small toy in comparison to Nestworld Syaung-un.)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-19 04:09pm

Aye. Read that bit a long while ago. It's lying, of course. The Iln artifact claims to have benevolent intentions, yet its actions are distinctly and cruelly hostile to those around it for no reason whatsoever, which suggests that it cannot be an altruist.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2008-02-19 05:13pm

NecronLord wrote:Aye. Read that bit a long while ago. It's lying, of course. The Iln artifact claims to have benevolent intentions, yet its actions are distinctly and cruelly hostile to those around it for no reason whatsoever, which suggests that it cannot be an altruist.

Djan seems to think it's just talking bullshit to put people off guard. I dunno, maybe the Iln just believed that it was acting in accordance with the best principles of altruism. Hell, maybe they all bought into the "galactic supersimulation" deal and were trying to break things out of it...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-19 05:18pm

It goes around blowing up primatives and torturing Xinthians for kicks. These do not seem like acts that any creature that desires to free people around it would undertake when it clearly has better options. The Oct couldn't plausibly detain it, the Sarl sure as hell couldn't stop it. It just blew them up for kicks. And it seemed to be taking its time in torturing the worldgod (who is presumably not in on the evil plan of the sphere builders...)

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2008-02-19 06:09pm

The Iln device was hilariously dangerous and destroyed anything that could potentially get in the way, from men armed with Edwardian-style weapons up to Morthanveld and Culture and warships, since it was made and conditioned by the Iln to be so utterly driven in it's goal of destroying Shellworlds. The Iln may have had intially good intentions in taking down the Shellworld network that threatened to trap everybody inside the Milky Way, but they grew obsessively dogmatic in their grand goal of blowing up Shellworlds to the point of pathological psychopathy. The deranged Iln device could be seen as a warning for Special Circumstances, since their operatives in Matter and other Culture stories are seen ruthlessly killing "bad guys" who couldn't touch them.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-19 06:20pm

There's a large difference, morally.

The Oct who were killed were physically in the way, directly stopping the SC agents and their compatriots. The Sarl and Oct could not have stopped the Iln artifact. The SC agents killed when it was unavoidable to prevent a greater loss of innocent life; the Iln artifact did it for kicks. Also, it didn't destroy the Culture ship, it just subverted the one Morth one, which then mutually annihalated with the VFP.