EAS Cease-Fire and Debate Challenge

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 09:35pm

I just posted this at the EAS board:

I would like to personally say that while I think it's rather hypocritical to flame while simultaneously trying to claim the moral high ground, I'm willing to let this matter drop as far as your board is concerned.

However, I was unaware until now that Bernd Schneider has been essentially running around saying that I'm full of crap for some time now. Therefore, I would challenge him to put his money where his mouth is, and debate me. Surely, if my methods are so horrendous, my integrity so lacking, and my competence so low as he's been telling people, then he should be quite confident walking into such a debate, correct?

I propose E-mail debate, 5 rounds, ~30kB post size max (I've had problems with people making giant posts before), full text of both sides' exchanges posted publicly on our respective boards.

Bernd, please contact me at http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/E-Mail.html if you are willing to back up your trash-talk.

I am curious to see how he will respond.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 09:40pm

And so it begins.

Good luck Mike.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-20 09:41pm

WOO WOO!

First debate of the new year may be looming. Looks like we might have a fun one, too. Unlike the HORRIBLY boring we last have. Damn it, Darkstar can even make the imperial smack down boring.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-01-20 09:41pm

Let's see how it turns out. Maybe it's the end of this flame war fest. Fingers crossed!

(If they change their stance afterwards, that's another matter...)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 09:41pm

They're already making excuses for him AND twisting this ridiculously out of context. Observe:

Nathan F. wrote:Bernd, I would strongly recommend against debating with Wong. Odds are, your debate will just be twisted around to go against you. Some things are just impossible, and that is one of them. If you do decide to join it, remember, you are playing on his ground, not your own.

Translation: "Bernd. Don't do it. If you fight him, you'll lose because he's better at debating than you are and has a stronger position. Besides, you don't want this debate to be public, do you?"

I have NO IDEA why Bernd Schneider would be "playing on his [Mike's] ground, not" Bernd's, seeing as how the rules are clearly shown to be even.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-20 09:45pm

Master of Ossus wrote:They're already making excuses for him AND twisting this ridiculously out of context. Observe:

Nathan F. wrote:Bernd, I would strongly recommend against debating with Wong. Odds are, your debate will just be twisted around to go against you. Some things are just impossible, and that is one of them. If you do decide to join it, remember, you are playing on his ground, not your own.
Translation: "Bernd. Don't do it. If you fight him, you'll lose because he's better at debating than you are and has a stronger position. Besides, you don't want this debate to be public, do you?"

I have NO IDEA why Bernd Schneider would be "playing on his [Mike's] ground, not" Bernd's, seeing as how the rules are clearly shown to be even.

Wow...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-20 09:45pm

I tried, I really did. I did my best to try and mediate this for the imediate concerns, but neither side really cares.

MOO, they litterally do not trust people from SD.net, they even list you. When you make statements like that, this does not reinforce a possitive image for them to see.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-01-20 09:46pm

yep, you did try. but we do so love a flamewar debate.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 09:46pm

Alyeska wrote:I tried, I really did. I did my best to try and mediate this for the imediate concerns, but neither side really cares.

MOO, they litterally do not trust people from SD.net, they even list you. When you make statements like that, this does not reinforce a possitive image for them to see.

I know that they've been slandering me, but I don't really care about them. My problem is with Bernd's cowardice, not their board in general, or even what is written on their board.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-20 09:47pm

Yes...but when one side post that Mike will twist till he wins...sorry, that's a little low to say the least.

I mean if one side is firm in the belief they are correct, then really they should have no problem debating...seriously, Wong puts up his stuff for all to see...I mean if he flubbs, we see it.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-20 09:49pm

Geez, soon Bernd is gonna have both Ossus and Wong on his tail.

*Cues Imperial March*

And one hell of a smackdown will that be!!!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 09:54pm

Alyeska wrote:MOO, they litterally do not trust people from SD.net, they even list you. When you make statements like that, this does not reinforce a possitive image for them to see.

What difference does it make that they don't trust anyone from this board? Even if they literally do not trust anyone even associated with us (which would indicate that they have violated the terms of the cease-fire, so I don't believe this is the case), then there is still little or no trust required for a debate in which BOTH sides publicly publish what their responses. To claim that e-mail is somehow Mike's "turf" as opposed to Doctor Schneider's is ludicrous.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-20 09:55pm

(shakes head)

Whats the point? You don't want a Truce. If you did you wouldn't be slandering the other side. You want to slit their throats. Just admit it. You never had any intention of a Truce in the first place, you just wanted the other side off your back just long enough for them to turn around so that you could slash their throat.

This is pathetic. I give up. I refuse to try and help people who refuse to help themselves.

Though one last thing. I don't want to hear one fucking word from anyone about my posting both at EAS and SD.net. Not one fucking word of BS about it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 09:56pm

Alyeska wrote:I tried, I really did. I did my best to try and mediate this for the imediate concerns, but neither side really cares.

I tried to go over there and say I considered the matter closed, and that I would prefer to deal directly with Bernd and not them. They responded with yet another round of attacks on my character. Gee, they've certainly proven their superiority

MOO, they litterally do not trust people from SD.net, they even list you. When you make statements like that, this does not reinforce a possitive image for them to see.

Since we have done nothing to them except react to their flames, what right do they have to hold their noses in the air?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-20 09:58pm

Ya know, the great thing about SD.NET is its one crisis after another. First we've got DorkStar's website, then Ossus' rebuttul, of it, then DS' rebuttal of THAT.

But a board war? Yikes, overboard. Mr. Wong vs. Bernd, that I like.

Never a dull moment, not never.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 09:59pm

Second post:

Darth Wong wrote:
Nathan F. (Moderator) wrote:Bernd, I would strongly recommend against debating with Wong. Odds are, your debate will just be twisted around to go against you. Some things are just impossible, and that is one of them. If you do decide to join it, remember, you are playing on his ground, not your own.
How is it "playing in his ground" to have a public E-mail debate in which we each promise to post the full text of both sides' exchanges on our respective boards? Such an exchange does not favour one side or another.
Felis Demens CCXXI wrote:As far as I am concerned, this matter is over. Mister Wong, you are only attempting to drag it out even further by baiting Bernd. Quit kicking the dead horse and let it be dead.
I'm not trying to continue any feud with you people as a web board. I'm just irritated to discover that Bernd HIMSELF has been telling as many people as he can that I'm full of crap, and I'm asking him to put his money where his mouth is.
Razor wrote:Hmm this has gone well Bernd Im with Nathan just ignore him. As for the other SCN members I recommend just staying away from SD.net its obvious that the less civil members cant keep their traps shut so just ignore them.
I see the ceasefire did not last for long; your trash-talking of my entire community begins again. Perhaps you should pull out the "ravening orcs" comment once more?

Bernd, I have made the challenge. As I said before, go to http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/E-Mail.html if you wish to accept. And explain to some of your board denizens that the correct way to honour a cease-fire is NOT to spout more remarks about how we "can't keep our traps shut".

Apparently, "cease-fire" means that they still denigrate our board and denigrate me personally, but we have to shut up and I can't even challenge Bernd to a debate

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 10:00pm

Alyeska wrote:(shakes head)

Whats the point? You don't want a Truce. If you did you wouldn't be slandering the other side. You want to slit their throats. Just admit it. You never had any intention of a Truce in the first place, you just wanted the other side off your back just long enough for them to turn around so that you could slash their throat.

This is pathetic. I give up. I refuse to try and help people who refuse to help themselves.

Though one last thing. I don't want to hear one fucking word from anyone about my posting both at EAS and SD.net. Not one fucking word of BS about it.

What are you talking about? I had never even heard of this board (though I had visited the site) until these threads started cropping up. I have no intention for a board war, and I'm certainly not going to be upset with you for posting on numerous boards. Why the heck don't you feel that we want to have a truce? My problem is with Doctor Schneider, and with no one else over there.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 10:00pm

BTW, Alyeska, for what it's worth, I think we can all agree that you did a good job of trying to stamp out the flames. But the fact is that they trash-talked much more than we did. Even when I went there myself, declared cease-fire and challenged Bernd to a debate, their only response was to trash my character and our board some more.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-20 10:05pm

Felis Demens CCXXI still wants a cease fire. If it is to work. BOTH SIDES must stop the insults RIGHT NOW. Not another single insult targeted at ANYONE. The only remote possible exception is Bernd and Mike referring to eachother. Everyone else has to SHUT THE FUCK UP. You think you have something important to say? Try stuffing a dirty sock in your mouth and then try speaking. Just let this fucking die.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 10:07pm

Nathan F. just chastised Razor for trying to fan the flames. Mind you, Nathan F. is the guy who promptly responded to my debate challenge by saying that I would "twist" things to my advantage, ie- accusing me of dishonesty, so he's not one to talk.

But for now, I would prefer we stop talking about their board so that I can focus my attention on Bernd himself; I have gone to his board, I have stated that he should not run around denigrating my character or competence or integrity without expecting such a challenge sooner or later, and I have made a direct challenge to him. The ball is in his court now.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-20 10:15pm

Razor just apologized. A very good start.

Mike, you have a good idea. Its best that everyone else simply leave the issue to you because it is a direct issue between you and Bernd, no one else.

I am outa here. Anyone else posting after this is on their own and I won't feel much need to defend them on the other board.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 10:19pm

Alyeska wrote:Felis Demens CCXXI still wants a cease fire. If it is to work. BOTH SIDES must stop the insults RIGHT NOW. Not another single insult targeted at ANYONE. The only remote possible exception is Bernd and Mike referring to eachother. Everyone else has to SHUT THE FUCK UP. You think you have something important to say? Try stuffing a dirty sock in your mouth and then try speaking. Just let this fucking die.

I know. Razor obviously didn't speak for the majority of their board.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-20 10:20pm

Alyeska wrote:Felis Demens CCXXI still wants a cease fire. If it is to work. BOTH SIDES must stop the insults RIGHT NOW. Not another single insult targeted at ANYONE. The only remote possible exception is Bernd and Mike referring to eachother. Everyone else has to SHUT THE FUCK UP. You think you have something important to say? Try stuffing a dirty sock in your mouth and then try speaking. Just let this fucking die.

While I don't see that I've done anything to particularly insult their board, I will not talk about it anymore. The problem is with Doctor Schneider himself, and with no one else over there.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-20 10:38pm

I'm curious, what would the debate consist of should it commence? I mean, he's obviously not into the VS aspect. Would it be debates about the engineering of Trek ships, or aspects of their tech (which you have mentioned arguing before) or calcs and assumptions or what?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-20 10:42pm

Ender wrote:I'm curious, what would the debate consist of should it commence? I mean, he's obviously not into the VS aspect. Would it be debates about the engineering of Trek ships, or aspects of their tech (which you have mentioned arguing before) or calcs and assumptions or what?

I hadn't even considered that. This isn't going to be the standard debates Mike gets because its going to be concentrating solely on Trek. This debate should actually be very fun to read because its going to be between two people who most certainly know a lot about the topic.