WH40K questions.

[white_rabbit]

Which makes it slightly odd that the Ultramarines, who were described as largely untouched by the Heresy, could only muster enough marines for 20-something chapters after it.

Some of the additional material, or expansion upon previously less detailed events has greatly upped the casualty rate for the Heresy and Crusade periods. The Ultramarines "largely untouched" by the Heresy is now the "brutal fucking meatgrinder with the Word Bearers" Chapter.

[andrewgpaul]

Hmmm; that's not so much additional revelation as going back to the roots;

Come in, Crotaline. War-Cruiser Crotaline, please respond.”
It’s no good Primarch. I can’t raise the Crotaline; the war-cruiser
Lacertian must have got her.”
Roboute Gulliman nodded gravely.
“We’ll have to take them on alone. Though without a barrage to
soften them up, it’ll be a harder fight than I’d anticipated. It may
even delay our departure.”
“Still, that’s a consideration for later. There are more pressing
problems. Prepare the men and start the ceremony; I shall be along
in a moment.”
Brother-Captain Karrack nodded he carefully made his way down
the treacherous rockface to the command post.
Gulliman looked across the valley, towards the clouds of smoke
that sprawled across the horizon. Though they were half-hidden by
the thick red-brown plumes, he could just make out the flattened
carapaces of the Traitor Warlords.
At this range they were no more than tiny black specks fluttering
in the breeze, and the hundreds of armored machines that
swarmed around the Titan’s feet looked less threatening than a
swarm of ants.
“The Word Bearers; the whole Chapter on the field at once.”
Gulliman allowed himself a ironic smile.
“A remarkable event, even more so now that the Ultramarines
stand ready to face them.”
Gulliman heard Karrack coming back, the noise of his boots trying
to get a grip on the rockface breaking Gulliman’s silent
contemplation.
“To think it should come to this Primarch – Brother versus
Brother.” Gulliman nodded as Karrack returned to his side,
obviously upset that the enemy were fellow Marines. “May Horus
rot in oblivion for his treachery .”
Gulliman understood the Captain’s anger; he knew the men were
feeling it too.
“Aye, Karrack. Damn his eternal soul if you want. You must admit
though, the way he caught us was a masterful stroke.”
Karrack either didn’t hear the comment, or ignored it; he was
more worried about the enemy, now only hundreds of yards away.
Urgently, he requested that Gulliman give the order to fight. “The
men are ready and await your command, Primarch.”
Gulliman stood for a moment, not taking his eyes off the
approaching Traitors. “A command I thought I’d never have to
give, Karrack; even in my most terrifying nightmares.” He glanced
over his shoulder at the uncomfortable Captain.
“Give them the command to charge, Captain, and pray the
Emperor will forgive us all. Tell them they must kill their Brother
Marines.”
A sheet of shells arced across the sky, a curtain of death that burst
the Word Bearers’ ranks in a storm of greasy, black smoke and
shrapnel.
The first wave of troops disappeared as the ground melted, the
rock becoming molten around their feet. Fifty vehicles vanished in
a mist of vaporized metal as they were slowly sucked into the lake
of steaming plasma, the dull crump of their power units sending
columns of flame into the air as they exploded.
Gulliman watched as his men charged into battle. He winced as a
dozen detachments fell to Land Raider fire, watched the bright
beams of light cut through the Marines ranks. He saw his men
being cut apart by fellow Marines; the horror of the situation
wasn’t lost on him, and he despaired at the pointless loss of life. He
barked his orders into the commlink, trying to outthink his fellow
Primarch. “More support on the left side. They’re trying to
outflank our Rhinos.”
He watched as eighty Land Raiders responded instantaneously,
tracks spraying mud as they swung to the left and cut off the
Traitor’s advance. The tanks sped across the battered landscape
and crashed into the enemy, their guns blazing. A hundred square
yards of the battlefield burnt with a bright, white light as the
Traitors were felled by a glowing mesh of laser bolts.
“Make sure you keep them pinned down; they mustn’t gain the
advantage.”
His adrenaline flowing and his mind racing, Gulliman reeled out
his commands. A company of Marines, now down to half of their
original number, surged over the wreckage of the enemy vehicles.
They ran low and hard, heading for the abandoned city that
smothered one side of the valley, sticking to the shadows caused by
the tall black buildings that blotted out the darkened sky.
With indoctrinated calmness they set up a defensive position;
within minutes a stream of crack missiles screamed from the
shattered windows, the whistle of their flight punctuated by the
sharp thud of another successful hit.
Stranded behind what little cover they had, the Traitors couldn’t
avoid the concentrated volley of fire that thumped into the dirt
around them. The casualties were uncountable, many were simply
buried under the crumbling rock. The price in geneseed was high.
Gulliman nodded his approval to Karrack. “We have them on the
run, my friend. I think victory is close.” He stared into the
Captain’s eyes, his mouth tensed into a line. “The Emperor is with
us this day. We enjoy his… ” The sentence trailed away as
Gulliman watched the Word Bearers rally. The first Traitors that
broke cover were torn apart, but with each successive wave they
gained more ground, until they were finally assaulting the
Ultramarines positions. Gulliman’s men had lost the advantage,
and were now easy prey for the Traitor Land Raiders.
He had expected losses – but even Roboute Gulliman hadn’t
anticipated what happened next: as one, the Word bearer’s Land
Raiders and Whirlwind missile carriers spun on the spot and
sprayed the nearest building with everything they had. The
Librarium shook for a moment, then caved in on itself in a cloud of
dust and plascrete. There was a deathly silence as the rubble
settled. Two hundred Ultramarines were buries alive
Gulliman cursed, and thumped a nearby rock in frustration. The
outcrop exploded in a hail of chippings as his fist slammed into it,
the impact of the power field blasting the granite apart.
“Karrack!” Gulliman spun round and snapped at the stunned
Captain. “Get me the Crotaline now! We need enough supporting
fire to blast that scum off the face of this planet.” He turned to look
at the Traitors, his voice dropping to a harsh whisper. “Even if
they are Marines.”

[Shadowtraveler]

Its been awhile since I read the Hoare Rogue Trader novels also, but I vaguely recall some comment that the Warp in/around the Damocles Gulf region and other parts of Tau space are "weird" for some reason (screwinga round with astropathic comms and warp travel, I believe.) so this may help insulate the Tau from some of the nastier aspects of the Warp (in conjunction with their "little to no" psychic potential.)

You're thinking Star of Damocles. Apparently that area also lets daemons enter the ship regardless of the gellar field.

[NecronLord]

So something like 1 million Loyalists went down to less than 50,000. That's a 95% casualty rate, which is really quite large. I've got real problems with the numbers they're throwing around nowadays, it's really hard to make them fit (plus I'm not a huge fan of the "Oh, everything was better then, there were more marines, more tech, more bunnies, more everything" approach to the fluff).

Not everything, but most things. In case you missed the Imperial Army Land Raiders, speeders, Mechanicus Battle Robot Legions, Adeptus Custodes taking to the field, and the personal leadership of the Emperor.

[Lord Revan]

btw weren't it the Ultramarines fighting the Word Bearers in the chaos intro (during the heresy part) in DoW:Dark Crusade?

[Shortie]

Some of the additional material, or expansion upon previously less detailed events has greatly upped the casualty rate for the Heresy and Crusade periods. The Ultramarines "largely untouched" by the Heresy is now the "brutal fucking meatgrinder with the Word Bearers" Chapter.

I stand corrected. Even then, 95%? Any normal formation would be considered destroyed long before that, and the Ultramarines were still better off than everyone else.

Not everything, but most things. In case you missed the Imperial Army Land Raiders, speeders, Mechanicus Battle Robot Legions, Adeptus Custodes taking to the field, and the personal leadership of the Emperor.

Robots are still in the Fluff? Awesome, I thought they were gone. Never all that useful though, and I'd of thought that philosophy stopped them from being made as much as tech problems.

Speeders I'll give you, though I'm not sure how great they are. Land Raiders were used by more people, but that doesn't mean those units were better off than with more conventional (sensible) MBTs. The Custodes are just shinier marines (probably, though it's hard to get a definite answer). The Grey Knights make up for them lounging around the Palace.

The Emperor is obviously a big plus, but on the other hand:
Power armour has improved by several generations.
New tanks have been designed (Macharius, Razorback, etc)
While some funky weapon knowledge has been lost (Plasma) other stuff has improved (Stormbolters, Nova Cannons, etc).

I admit that because I'm not a fan of the doom and gloom approach I don't like the idea that they produced and maintained 2 million marines with less resources than got them back to 1 million in another 10,000 years.

[Lost Soal]

Speeders I'll give you, though I'm not sure how great they are.

Used correctly speeders would be immensely useful to all branches of the Imperium.

Land Raiders were used by more people, but that doesn't mean those units were better off than with more conventional (sensible) MBTs.

The armour, weapons, versatility and control systems are all superior normal MBT's.

The Custodes are just shinier marines (probably, though it's hard to get a definite answer). The Grey Knights make up for them lounging around the Palace.

They are not "just shinier marines", the Illustrated Heresy books recounts an incident where they drop into the middle of a battle saving another legion from being overwhelmed, and don't suffer a single casualty.

Power armour has improved by several generations.

The design has been refined several times, but the fact that the Chaos legions don't suffer a serious short comming when facing loyalists shows that the protective qualities haven't improved that much.

I admit that because I'm not a fan of the doom and gloom approach I don't like the idea that they produced and maintained 2 million marines with less resources than got them back to 1 million in another 10,000 years.

To paraphrase:
Then came the Horus Heresy. The Imperium was torn in half and fully half the Legions Astartes rebelled against the Emperor.

They had more resources back then not less, they were reduced to 1 million Marines in an instant because the other million rebelled and they've kept those numbers because the Adeptus doesn't want to risk it ever happening again.

[white_rabbit]

The design has been refined several times, but the fact that the Chaos legions don't suffer a serious short comming when facing loyalists shows that the protective qualities haven't improved that much.

Well, a lot of times Chaotic power armour tends not to resemble its original format as much, it is bulkier and less efficient in design, and doesn't have certain features depending on which version you are talking about.

As usual, they tend to cheat with sorcerous/chaotic repairs and replacements.

Mind you, even the latest generations of armour aren't particularly "new"

[andrewgpaul]

I'm not sure when marks 7 and 8 were introduced, but 6 was state of the art at the time of the Heresy. Problem was, the traitor Legions were first in the queue to be upgraded.

[Shortie]

Used correctly speeders would be immensely useful to all branches of the Imperium.

Mmm. They're nice enough for recon, but how much better than say a helicopter are they, especially if the crew don't have power armour?

The armour, weapons, versatility and control systems are all superior normal MBT's.

Side armour yes and weapons only in some ways. That comes onto versatility, who wants to use their MBTs as assault transports? The Astartes, that's who. Guard don't. The computer system is a plus though.
When you factor in resource usage Leman Russes are just as good, and are more effective in some situations.

They are not "just shinier marines", the Illustrated Heresy books recounts an incident where they drop into the middle of a battle saving another legion from being overwhelmed, and don't suffer a single casualty.

Well, that's nicely quantified. Whereas Grey Knights are a bunch of lightweights. You can find a story like that about every single army in the universe anyway.

The design has been refined several times, but the fact that the Chaos legions don't suffer a serious short comming when facing loyalists shows that the protective qualities haven't improved that much.

That goes for all the other factors we're talking about as well (e.g. the lack of Land Speeders doesn't hamper the Traitors much either), so doesn't tell us much, especially when Chaos is involved. Tech advancement is certainly slow, I just don't believe it's going backwards.

andrewgpaul
I believe V was Heresy, VI was post-Heresy and a bit of a kludge because of resource shortages, VII was the proper upgrade a couple of millenia back, and VIII is new and fancy, but only available in limited numbers so far.

To paraphrase:
Then came the Horus Heresy. The Imperium was torn in half and fully half the Legions Astartes rebelled against the Emperor.

They had more resources back then not less, they were reduced to 1 million Marines in an instant because the other million rebelled and they've kept those numbers because the Adeptus doesn't want to risk it ever happening again.

I thought that new Chapters were being founded at fairly regular intervals (they're being lost as well of course). The division of combat arms was the big anti-Heresy strategy. Of course they're not putting all their effort into the Astartes, but I've never read that they're choosing to keep their numbers low as a group, as opposed to per Chapter.

As to more resources, I thought that there had been a significant increase in the size of the Imperium since the Heresy (Macharian Crusade say)? Has that changed as well?

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

They are not "just shinier marines", the Illustrated Heresy books recounts an incident where they drop into the middle of a battle saving another legion from being overwhelmed, and don't suffer a single casualty.

Well, that's nicely quantified. Whereas Grey Knights are a bunch of lightweights. You can find a story like that about every single army in the universe anyway.

The Adeptus custodes were each hand made by the emperor himself. They're more analogous to mini-primarchs than space marines. Grey Knights are sweet but they aren't anywhere near custodes.

[NecronLord]

Just for the record, I'm not talking about puny land speeders, I'm talking about a different type of speeder, The Old Rick Priestly Grav Tank which is in the artbook as an Imperial Army vehicle.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Not everything, but most things. In case you missed the Imperial Army Land Raiders, speeders, Mechanicus Battle Robot Legions, Adeptus Custodes taking to the field, and the personal leadership of the Emperor.

Robots are still in the Fluff? Awesome, I thought they were gone. Never all that useful though, and I'd of thought that philosophy stopped them from being made as much as tech problems..

There's a long story in the H.H visions collection about the Mechanicus building a robot with Horus's go-ahead, against the Emperors orders.
[size=0]It mentions an ancient war with the machines, and the robot's still alive, and increasingly independent by the end of the story, having killed humans.[/size]

[NecronLord]

The heresy is in building themselves a self aware robot.

They had entire legions of non-sapient combat robots.

[andrewgpaul]

Just for the record, I'm not talking about puny land speeders, I'm talking about a different type of speeder, The Old Rick Priestly Grav Tank which is in the artbook as an Imperial Army vehicle.

Eek! the infamous roll-on deodorant tank! It's canon now?


[

Well, since we've never seen anyone in the 41st millennium use a helicopter, I'm not sure what the point here is. At least one Land Speeder variant has an enclosed cockpit; it's not unreasonable to suggest that the other, two-man versions might also. Any of those would fulfil the role of an attack helicopter, while Arvus lighters or Aquila landers would fill the role of transport choppers.

Alternatively, the army may indeed use them for recce, and use Vultures and Valkyries in the helicopter role.and

[Lord Revan]

remember that it wasn't only the Astrades legions who joined chaos, Ad Mech (or it heresy time equilevant) and the Imperial guard also had parts of them join Horus

so I wonder how much of the tech supposebly lost to modern Imperium is truly lost as in "dammit I just don't know how to do it!" and how much of it lost as in "we sealed it in vault capable taking a direct hit for a capital grade lance weapon and welded the doors shut".

as for how does chaos up their "up to date" in addition to was said that the "current" model may not be that old, the Horus heresy wasn't the last time marines joined the forces of Chaos (though it was the largest such event), so maybe some of the tech those defectors brought with got filtered into the traitor legions

[Lost Soal]

They're nice enough for recon, but how much better than say a helicopter are they, especially if the crew don't have power armour?

Well, since we've never seen anyone in the 41st millennium use a helicopter, I'm not sure what the point here is. At least one Land Speeder variant has an enclosed cockpit; it's not unreasonable to suggest that the other, two-man versions might also. Any of those would fulfil the role of an attack helicopter, while Arvus lighters or Aquila landers would fill the role of transport choppers.

Alternatively, the army may indeed use them for recce, and use Vultures and Valkyries in the helicopter role.and

Helicopters are called Ornithopters, and appear at least once via the Nightbringer novel toting a pair of autocannons.

As for the Land Speeders, a squadron can come complete with three multimeltas and three assault cannons, approach using cover then be in, make a mess of enemy tanks and squads and be out again before they have a chance to direct any heavy ordinance at them.

Military speeders are armoured enough to be proof against small arms fire such as lasguns and autoguns whilst even a bolter would have trouble taking one down.

The open cockpit isn't as big an issue as you might think since their speed and elevated position means any hits on the crew are virtually random chance.

It should also be noted that short of power armoured troops or a ruined city to hide in, a Speeder of one of the few ways of actually getting a Multi-Melta close enough to use on an enemy tank

[andrewgpaul]

Regarding Heresy-era power armour, Shortie, mark 4 was the standard at the time, and deployment was halfway complete when the Heresy broke out. mark 5 was a stop-gap design, using old pre-mark 4 spares and rivetted heavy armour plates. At least one subtype used a helmet derived from the Terminator programme, although by its very nature the mark was quite varied. Mark 6 was designed and rushed into production for some loyalist units in time for the siege of Earth.

Sorry, in my previous post on the subject, I got details of mark 4 and 6 confused.

For reference:
This page shows, from left to right, marks 1, 2, 3, 5 and 4. There's some more examples here.

[NeoGoomba]

I've got a question regarding Pariahs, well, more specifically, humans with the Pariah gene. Since they have a negative Warp signature/aura/whatever, what happens to them if they are on a ship that then enters the Warp?

[Lost Soal]

I've got a question regarding Pariahs, well, more specifically, humans with the Pariah gene. Since they have a negative Warp signature/aura/whatever, what happens to them if they are on a ship that then enters the Warp?

Nothing

[NeoGoomba]

And so I am answered!

[Connor MacLeod]

Here's the stuff i remember on the "Marks" of armour at and before the horus Heresy. Its froms ome very very old stuff (1st or 2nd edition IIRC) so i dont knwo how much (if any) may have been retconned, though some novels have referenced this material (eye of Terror, for example, but mention of "Eagle" armour has shown up)

As you can see, its a HUGE chunk of text.

Most humans who have any contact with Space Marines will know and recognise the most common types of Space Marine armour quite readily. However, there are other older types which remain in service to this day and which are very different in their design. Some Space Marine Chapters use only a single type of armour while others make use of several different types.

Many of the older variants have special associations for particular Chapters and may be worn by ceremonial guards or by elite units For example. Other Space Marine Chapters are less formal in their use of armour, mixing various types into their fighting units with little or no regard for conformity. The degree of uniformity within a Space Marine Chapter varies a great deal from Chapter to Chapter and is often determined by historical precedent or tradition.

The initial evolution of Space Marines and their armour occurred during the long period of Earth's isolation that preceded the rise of the Imperium and which later became known as the Age of Strife.

The Age of Strife lasted From approximately the 26th millennium to the beginning of 31st ( ie roughly from 25000 AD to 30000 AD - further references to dates are given in terms of millennia). During these five thousand years the ancient pan-galactic human civilisation of the past broke down and was replaced by many thousands of local civilisations based around either a single solar system or, occasionally, a small cluster of nearby stars. The reason this happened is that warp travel (the means by which spacecraft travel throughout the galaxy) became dangerous and eventually impossible due to colossal disturbances in the fabric of the warp. These disturbances, known as warp storms, were caused by the growth of the Chaos Power Slaanesh - a thorough discussion of which appears elsewhere in this volume, along with a description of the Fall of the Eldar.

During the Age of Strife Earth and the other planets of the Terran solar system were unable to communicate with other human worlds, but maintained contact with each other. For much of this period the government of Earth held sway over the entire system, at other times Mars and the Moon were dominant.

For much of the time the different worlds found themselves at war. During the 28th millennium Earth government broke down completely and the planet divided into dozens of inter-warring nations. After two and a half thousand years of continuous warfare little remained of the once sophisticated civilisation of the past. The planet had become a battleground fought over by techno-barbarian warlords and their warrior hordes. This was a dark time for the people of Earth: a time dominated by brutal rulers like Kalagann of Ursh, Cardinal Tang, and the most infamous of all, the half-mad half-genius Narthan Dume Tyrant of the Panpacific Empire. It was against this background of techno-barbaric warfare that the first Space Marines were created and the first Space Marine Armour type developed.

FORMATIVE MARINE ARMOUR

This first type of armour is now often referred to as 'Mark 1'. In fact this is the sort of armour worn by the techno- barbarian warriors that dominated the Earth. When the Emperor began his conquest of the planet his retinue was equipped and armed in the same way as the troops of other warlords. The first Space Marines formed part of that retinue and were equipped with the same sort of armour as other warriors of the time.

The thunder-bolt and lightning emblem on the breastplate of this suit was the personal badge of the Emperor in those days, predating the Imperial eagle which only became the symbol of the Imperium much later. This emblem gives the suit its other common name - Thunder Armour.

This is not really a single enclosing suit and offers no atmospheric protection or life-support facilities - all of these being unnecessary while fighting was restricted to Earth. The helmet and the top plume are fairly typical, but these early suits were manufactured on an entirely local basis and their exact designs were often a matter of personal taste. The main part of the armour is the massive powered torso which encloses the chest and arms. Beneath the armoured chest plate coiled energy cables transmit power into the arms, effectively multiplying the wearer's fighting abilities three or four times over. During this period most fighting consisted of close combat, warriors preferring to grapple with each other rather than use long range weapons - the power of a warrior's chest and arms was therefore of paramount importance.

The warrior's legs are not power armoured at all but enclosed in tough padded breeches. In the example shown the warrior wears armoured greives and armoured boots. These were not standard by any means, but were worn by many of the better equipped warriors and were common amongst the early Space Marines. The warrior wears a backpack which provides his suit with power - most of its bulk is taken up by a cooling mechanism meant to prevent the power unit from overheating.

Warriors equipped in this way fought during all the Emperor's wars on Earth, and also on the Moon and Mars which have Earth-type atmospheres. Mark 1 armour is unlikely to be seen on the 41st millennium battlefield but ceremonial units are sometimes equipped in this way.

MARK 2

Once the Terran system was secure and the process of rebuilding firmly in band, the galactic conquest could begin. Even before the warp storms and the Age of Strife ended, the Emperor started to make provisions for his Great Crusade. Part of these plans included the re- equipping of the Space Marine armies with a far more sophisticated fighting suit.

With its advanced technology the newly conquered planet of Mars became the centre for munitions development. New types of armour were produced in great numbers in the Martian factories under the direction of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the ruling class of Tech- priests installed to administrate its affairs on behalf of the Emperor. This enabled the entire Space Marine Corps to be re-equipped.

The new type of armour was the Crusade Suit, which became soon became known as Mark 2 armour while the old style became Mark 1 retrospectively. The armour is totally enclosed and life-sustaining, and so suitable for fighting on alien worlds as well as in deep space. It is arranged into articulated hoop-shaped plates for ease of movement and these now cover the legs as well as the chest. The additional energy cabling required to operate the leg armour can be seen in the example illustration while the chest coils are enclosed by armoured plates. The old armour had deliberately placed these coils on the outside to help keep the armour cool, but more efficient coolers in the Mark 2 did away with this necessity.

The back pack retains the old shape but is now much more efficient and contains all the extra equipment needed to maintain life-support, air recycling, fluid recovery, and the various automatical medical Functions which have remained common to Space Marine armour ever since.

The helmet is now fitted with automatic sensory devices developed in the Martian workshops. These consist of exterior sensors which gather visual and audio stimuli from the immediate environment - effectively functioning as eyes and ears. The information gathered in this way is processed by a computer brain and then transmitted directly into the wearer's mind by a neural connector. The practical result for the wearer is that he appears to see and hear quite normally, but he can also see infra-red and ultra-violet light, and hear a wider range of sound frequencies. The wearer is also able to selectively enhance a visual image or sound should he wish.

If exposed to blinding lights or deafening noises, the computer processor acts as a safety valve and dampens down the stimuli preventing damage to the Space Marine.

This sort of armour was used throughout the Great Crusade. Many maintain that it is the most efficient of all Space Marine armours, although its overlapping plates are notoriously difficult to repair. Actual examples of this armour, much repaired and carefully maintained, are still used in small numbers by many Space Marine Chapters.

MARK 3

The Mark 3 armour variant dates from the inner-galactic wars between the Emperor's forces and the inhabitants of worlds close to the galactic core, which included many of the Squat Homeworlds, not all of which were entirely pleased to find themselves the object of galactic reconquest. Mark 3 armour was never intended to replace Mark 2, but to Provide an optional heavy armour type suitable for fighting on board spacecraft and in tunnel complexes. High casualties suffered during early battles had shown the need for such armour. Mark 3 therefore placed considerable emphasis on frontal protection, while the rear armoured plates were lightened to compensate. This armour was reckoned ideal where cover was minimal and combat was a matter of frontal assault.

The suit itself is a highly modified Mark 2 with the addition of fixed armour plates to the body and limbs and a new heavy armoured helmet. The sloping plates of this helmet were intended to deflect shot to the left and right, and was to inspire the Mark 4 and 6 helmet designs. No Space Marine forces were ever equipped solely with this mark although many modern Chapters still use Mark 3 armour for boarding actions and tunnel fighting.

While a successful solution to a specific need, Mark 3 armour is too clumsy and uncomfortable for everyday use. As the most visually brutal of all Marine armour, it is sometimes used as a basic uniform for ceremonial guards. Mark 3 armour is sometimes called the Iron Suit or Armorum Ferrum in recognition of its great strength.

MARK 4

The Great Crusade lasted for approximately 200 years at the end of which came a period of political consolidation. The Space Marines were now scattered far and wide throughout the galaxy, many serving as garrisons rather than as campaigning armies, and their size was scaled down to reflect this new role. Much of the equipment of the past was rapidly wearing out, including the old Mark 2 and 3 armour suits produced on Mars. While some Marine Chapters chose to continue local production and maintenance, the Martian factory hives of the Adeptus Mechanicus set about producing a new variant. This was to be the Mark 4 or Imperial
Maximus Suit.

The main change was to abandon the separate abutting plates in favour of larger inflexible armour casings incorporating the flexible joints originally developed for the Mark 3. The result was only marginally less mobile than the earlier type and considerably easier to produce and maintain. Technical secrets uncovered on newly conquered worlds enabled the Martians to develop a more efficient armour, improving the quality of protection and reducing the weight of the suit at the same time. Improved armouring of the power cables enabled the main arm and chest supply to be safely relocated on the exterior of the armour, while use of new material also allowed the size and number of cables to be reduced.

The helmet is an entirely new type, the basic shape inspired by the sweeping front of the Mark 3. In earlier armour the helmet is fixed and the wearer's bead is free to move inside. In Mark 4 and later versions the helmet is not fixed but moves with the wearer's head. This facility reflects the constructors' increasing experience with neural connector gear and the use of new materials which flooded into the Martian workshops as the Great Crusade progressed. Mark 4 armour was designed to be the ultimate and final type of Space Marine armour, able to offer the best protection in a variety of conditions. The Martian factories were turned over to its production and many of the Space Marine armies were entirely or partially re-equipped.

MARK 5

The general issue of Mark 4 armour was only half complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. This threw the entire program of supply into turmoil. In fact many of the most recently supplied Chapters were to turn against the Imperium while many loyal Chapters were forced to continue with older variants, and the confusion was considerable. The Space Marine armourers Techmarines and Artificers) had hardly got used to the new armour and many were as yet unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it as was originally intended.

With the Mark 4 newly in service the need for large numbers of spares had not been anticipated, so that suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage. It was soon found that the new and rather specialised materials used in the construction of the Mark 4 were unavailable locally and this increasingly became a problem as Chapters moved from battle-zone to battle- zone. The Imperial forces were soon forced into a fall- back position. Production of Mark 4 armoured ceased, and a new type of armour was designed almost literally over-night. This was the Mark 5 or Heresy Suit.

The Mark 5 used as many pre-Mark 4 components as possible. Large stocks of these existed and the Marine Artificers were already familiar with their application. Once supplies of the new materials used in the Mark 4 armour dried up it became necessary to re-use older substances. In the illustration the lighter chest, arm and leg cabling of the Mark 4 has been replaced by older and heavier style cabling made from more readily available materials. However the cables are now exposed because they are too bulky to fit under the new style chest plate. This was to prove a consistent weak spot in the design leading to the fitment of all kinds of improvised chest armour.

A distinguishing feature of the Mark 5 armour were the heavily studded armour plates. This was an attempt to reinforce the Mark 4 pattern plates when inferior materials were used due to lack of the proper supplies. An extra skin plate was fitted around the armour using molecular bonding studs. The extra weight was considerable, especially if a further chest plate had been added, leading to increased pressure For energy from the power pack. As a result the wearer either had to turn up the power output and suffer intolerable heat build-up, or leave the power supply as it was and accept reduced power levels.

The helmet type illustrated is a spin-off from the Terminator development program, an early type of pre- production helmet, sharing the same type of auto-sense components as contemporary Terminator suits. Being something of an improvised stop-gap, it is common for Mark 5 suits to vary a great deal. Where Mark 4 helmets, armoured plates and cabling were available these were often used.

Despite its inauspicious origin the Mark 5 armour proved remarkably durable and equally importantly it was easy to produce and maintain. Huge quantities were shipped out to Space Marine Chapters during the Heresy, including to Chapters which subsequently went over to Horus. As Horus's own supply position became tenuous Mark 5 suits were scavenged from fallen enemies and used by his forces. After the Heresy most of the Mark 5 suits were broken up or dismantled to Provide spares. Few Chapters maintain examples of the design, preferring perhaps to forget the dark days of the Heresy. Renegade Space Marine Chapters may still be equipped with this armour.

MARK 6

At the same time as production of Mark 4 armour ceased, work began on a long term development program to replace the Mark 4 with a more durable type. The Mark 5, or Corvus Suit, was only ever perceived as a stopgap design. The weapon development workshops on Mars began to experiment with a mixture of new and old technology, making the newer materials more durable where possible.

A notable feature of the resulting armour types (Marks 6 and 7) is the provision of dual technology circuits. These permit relatively rare or sophisticated functions to be temporarily replaced or repaired using common or very simple technology. Although development was incomplete the new armour was rushed into production while the forces of Horus advanced throughout the Terran solar system. Hastily equipped Space Marines wore the new style Mark 6 armour into battle while the development laboratories were disassembled and prepared for transfer to Earth. During the Martian campaign forces of Horus eventually overran the production facilities for Space Marine armour and soon began to manufacture new suits for their own use. Consignments were distributed to other forces elsewhere in the galaxy so that this new type of armour became quite widespread.

Distinguishing features of the Mark 6 armour are its relatively clean appearance due to rehousing the main power cables under the armour plates. The exterior chest and arm cables are duplicated under the chest plate and automatically isolated from the main system if damaged - thus providing a failsafe and overcoming the vulnerability of the Mark 5. The helmet is an improved version of the Mark 4 rather than a new type, although a new type was under development and was to be used on the Mark 7. The left shoulder armour retains the same construction method as the earlier Mark 5 and for the same reasons. Where supplies of material were short it is the right side of the warrior which needs to be better protected while he fires his weapon, thus the left side could be most easily replaced by slightly less effective plates. The need to economise in this way was very real at the time. Later the studded pad became associated with the Terran campaign and the final heroism of the Space Marines so that it became a traditional emblem of those days.

MARK 7

While the final battle for Mars was underway the Imperium, realizing that the planet would eventually fall, set about duplicating the munition production lines back on Earth. The armour development teams from Mars were transferred wholesale to continue the development program and incorporate their latest work into a new armour type. As Horus's forces finally overcame the defenders of Mars new Mark 7 armoured suits started to reach the Space Marines on Earth and the Moon. Mark 7 represents the fulfillment of the new design program which was really only half complete in the Mark 6. In fact, so effective was the Mark 6 that both types continued in service thereafter and many Chapters chose to continue with their old armour rather than adopt Mark 7.

The main improvement is the newly designed chest plastron which covers the chest and arm cabling. This bears the eagle device and gives the armour its common name of Armorum Impetor or Eagle Armour. The other main difference is the abandonment of the studded right shoulder piece and the substitution of the new helmet for the old Mark 4 derived model. Improvements were made to the knee joint articulation, but this modification had already been incorporated into many of the later Mark 6 suits. On the whole it is Fair to say that Mark 7 represents the final development of Mark 6 and that the two sets of armour have a great deal in common. Parts from one are readily interchangeable with parts from another, so that a Mark 7 helmet will fit a Mark 6 suit and vice versa.

CHAPTER VARIANTS
The 7 basic marks of Space Marine armour were all developed up to and during the period of the Horus Heresy. During the production history of each mark various improvements were incorporated in the light of field experience. Thus there is a certain variation even within each mark although this is usually limited to the types of material used rather than to stylistic changes.

Following the end of the Heresy much in the Imperium changed, including the organization and number of the Space Marine Chapters. Whereas up until this time there had only been twenty Chapters, henceforth the huge pre- Heresy forces were to be broken up into many smaller Chapters. The new Chapters that were founded were equipped with whatever suitable armour and weaponry was available. For the most part the armour used was either Mark 6 or 7, but with a fair sprinkling of older types.

Since that time each Chapter has largely taken over the production of its own equipment. That is not to say that every Chapter produces every single item of hardware that it uses. Some Chapters trade items with other Space Marine Chapters, or they commission work from local fabricators.
This latter option is especially common where Chapters hold the governorship of the world they live on - in which case the planet is effectively owned by the Chapter and its resources can be organized by the Space Marines as they wish. In other Space Marine Chapters supplies are purchased through the Adeptus Mechanicus.

MARINE ARTIFICERS

Within each Chapter Space Marine armour is maintained by skilled Marine Artificers, These are not Space Marines, but highly trained and dedicated servants who spend their entire lives working for the Chapter, Artificers are just one of the many types of 'civilian' servants who work for their Space Marine Masters. In some Chapters these Artificers traditionally work together in a single huge workshop and their products are distributed amongst the Space Marine Chapter as a whole. In other Chapters individual Artificers are the personal servants of either a Squad of 10 Marines or an individual officer. These Artificers are very proud of their Space Marine masters, considering the status and reputation of their unit or officer to be of the utmost importance. In their turn the Space Marines are equally proud of the Artificers whose fine workmanship adorns their armour and weapons. Over the history of a Chapter especially talented Artificers become famous and justly celebrated, and examples of their work are much sought after.

In many Chapters it is traditional for Artificers to come from special families, and for fathers to pass on their skills and position to their sons. In other Chapters the position is open to all, but involves a long period of apprenticeship to an older Artificer.

The Artificer's job is to decorate and maintain the Chapter's armour and weapons. In fact, the Chapter also has Engineers and Techmarines whose role is to manufacture much of the equipment, so the Artificers are involved more with decoration, engraving, customizing and modifying the basic equipment. For example, when a Space Marine earns a combat honour it is the Artificers who make the honour badges and fasten them on to the Marine's armour. Similarly, the Artificers make rank badges, long service badges and other marks of distinction that are used by their Chapter.

Older types of armour are associated with the past history of many Chapters and often with the deeds of heroic individuals. Artificers will carefully hunt down examples of ancient armour-to use as the raw material on which they can engrave honour marks or purely decorative features. Such pieces will be lovingly restored, often plated with silver or gold, and then painstakingly engraved with naturalistic scenes, abstract designs or Chapter badges. A piece of armour that can be shown to have belonged to an old Chapter hero is valued above all others. As successful Space Marine Officers are often presented with ancient pieces of armour, a single armoured plate or helmet might have a long and famous history and could have belonged to a whole succession of Space Marine heroes and been worked on by many famous Artificers.

INDIVIDUALISED ARMOUR

As well as resurrecting old pieces of armour for notable Space Marines, the Artificers also decorate new armour and modify armour to suit particular individuals. Only Space Marines earning some kind of reward or honour would be given such items. As a result of their efforts over the many thousand years the Chapter has been in existence, it is quite common to find suits which combine elements of the different marks as well as quite unique suits which have customized armoured plates or helmets.
Some Chapter reserve such armour for special individuals, officers, or high ranking commanders. There is no fixed rule on this, it is a matter of Chapter tradition and preference how such armour is used. However, it is generally the case that very high ranking officials inherit special suits of armour, which they may then combine with their own existing suits so that their individual honours or personal pieces of armour are retained when they are appointed to a new position.

Terminator armour
The Powered Armour of the Legiones Astartes is among the finest protection ever developed for use in war. In his armour, a Marine can function in almost any environment and need have little fear of injury. The basic design is so successful that Marine armour has barely changed since the First Founding. It is, however, not the only equipment and armour available to the Astartes Chapters.

A need for even heavier armour became apparent long ago to the Adeptus Chapters. Certain situations virtually demanded its use: ship-to-ship actions, tunnel clearances, Hive-world combat, all required that very concentrated firepower be brought to bear in confined spaces. Dreadnoughts were unsuitable for use in such places; their cumbersome size merely added to the problem.

After some false starts, the basic outline design for Marine Terminator Armour, a form of exo-armour, evolved. Drawing on both Powered Armour and Dreadnought technologies, Terminator Armour attempts to combine the best of both. Several designs evolved in parallel from the forge-worlds of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the armouries of the Marines. Often bearing little physical resemblance to each other, these different Exo-armour suits have much in common. Massively armoured, sealed against any external conditions and incorporating their own armament, Terminator Armour designs proved their worth from the flrst. Like Powered Armour, the suits were equipped with fibre-bundle muscles and imposed few movement restrictions upon the wearer.

Terminator Armour also incorporates many more auxiliary systems than normal Marine armour. The armour's sensorium, based upon tendril sensors, links directly into the wearer's own awareness. The sensorium allows the wearer to use a vast number of scanners and detectors without conscious thought. Sensoriurns can also be linked together, allowing every squad member to see exactly the same view of the battle as his comrades.

In addition to its formidable protective value, Terminator Armour has its own built-in weaponry: a Storm Bolter and a Powerglove. The Storm Bolter is a multi chambered, shortbarrelled development of the trusty standard bolter already used by the Legiones Astartes. It shoots at a faster rate than the original weapon, allowing it to lay down a curtain of flre. It is also quite short, partly because it is built into the exo-armour, making it an ideal close cornbat weapon. Such a combination in a single weapon has proven useful, to say the least. The Powerglove is already standard issue in many Chapters, and needs little work to adapt it to exo-armour.
Some Marine tacticians and scholars have criticised the design of the suit and its weaponry for lacking a heavy punch at extended ranges. Given its prirnary funaion in boarding, close assault and clearance actions, such arguments have carried little weight. Exo-armour has been been included in the armouries of many Chapters who have recognised its worth.

Most Marine chapters maintain some Terminator suits in their armouries, and train some squads in their use. Some adaptive surgery for the sensorium interface is also necessary. However, Terminator Armour is not used by these Marines as a matter of course, but issued as and when required. Conventionally armoured Marines, for example, would not be expected to clear the densely-packed corridors of a Hive World. Their task would be to form a cordon, whole Terminator Squads in exo-armour carried out the clearance.

The Thule Decimation of 728.M40 is one of the most noteworthy examples of the use of Terminator Armour. Six entire companies of Grey Knights (an elite Chapter that is unusual in having all of its Marines trained and adapted for Exo-armour) were equipped with Terminator Armour, including suits that had been requisitioned from flve other Chapters. The assault was mounted with such haste that there was no time for repainting the suits. The Grey Knights werc forced to attack in the colours of six different Chapters and, apparently faced by six Chapters of Marines, the defenders surrendered within three hours. One in ten on the planetoid city were subsequently executed for their part in the rebellion.

The Ultramarines' crusade against the Tyranid hive-fleet Behemotb also included several important actions by Terminator Squads. These included the flrst breach in the fleet's outer hull, and the subsequent destruction of the vats and nest chambers.

Armed and armoured in Terminator Suits, properly trained Marines can take on almost any foe and prevail. Exo-armour in itself is, of course, only half the story: without the devotion and skill of a Marine, it would be as nothing.

[Connor MacLeod]

Other stuff:

Speeders and Grav tanks: The Grav tank has come up IIRC in the various "Chapper approved" compendiums produced under the "vehicle design rules" - tis could be meant to be considered "canonical." Hover tanks have been mentioned rarely in other sources (EG Stalinvast, the hive city in the Inquisition War novels, produced gravtanks.)

Given the commonality of "small" antigrav devices like grav chutes and jump packs in the Guard, its not unreasonable that they may have (somewhere) some sort of hover vehicles, although they probably aren't as common as the regular tanks (probably due to maintenance issues or something.)

Robots: As I remember, all that Imperial Robots were were basically remote/radio controlled combat platforms. They've survived in one form or another (Imperial armour features some sort of robotic tank bomb IIRC) and If I remeemmber correctly some of the earlier Tarantulas were remote controlled as well. THe more stationary tarantulas nowadays (instead of being mobile like they used to be) are fully automated though.

[andrewgpaul]

Connor, that big wodge of text was what I was trying to summarise above. 1st edition fluff, that, from White Dwarf #129.

As for robots, IIRC, Imperial robots were autonomous; once you set the program, they'd go off and do their own thing on the battlefield. The game rules even included some rather complex rules for designing the programs!

[NecronLord]

Eek! the infamous roll-on deodorant tank! It's canon now?

Yep. It's got the lascannon turret, and what appear to be three mortars or missile launchers in the raised section, and is labelled 'Imperial Army Speeder.'