Xisiqomelir wrote:Sanchez, what do you think of the theory that the Times actually does have the goods, but is waiting for the Republican base to rally around McCain so they achieve maximum effect from the story?
Interesting theory.
Zero evidence in support of the theory.
Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention. In which case I'd like to propose a theory, completely unsupported by any evidence, that the Chinese are secretly space aliens looking to steal all the cheese from the French.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
SancheztheWhaler wrote:Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention.
N&P has traditionally been given a much looser leash than, say, SLAM. We may have to revisit that policy.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Xisiqomelir wrote:Sanchez, what do you think of the theory that the Times actually does have the goods, but is waiting for the Republican base to rally around McCain so they achieve maximum effect from the story?
Interesting theory.
Zero evidence in support of the theory.
Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention. In which case I'd like to propose a theory, completely unsupported by any evidence, that the Chinese are secretly space aliens looking to steal all the cheese from the French.
So hostile.
I'll put you down as a "no" then. This is one time where I think the truth will come out fairly quickly.
SancheztheWhaler wrote:Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention.
N&P has traditionally been given a much looser leash than, say, SLAM. We may have to revisit that policy.
Science isn't usually a secret though. In the public space many players withhold or conceal information to their advantage, and we have to work with limited information and deliberate deception when drawing our conclusions, instead of established principles and proven fact.
SancheztheWhaler wrote:Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention.
N&P has traditionally been given a much looser leash than, say, SLAM. We may have to revisit that policy.
Science isn't usually a secret though. In the public space many players withhold or conceal information to their advantage, and we have to work with limited information and deliberate deception when drawing our conclusions, instead of established principles and proven fact.
I understand that. However, that is quite frankly no excuse for the kind of behaviour we've been seeing lately, where speculation is treated as fact.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Xisiqomelir wrote:Sanchez, what do you think of the theory that the Times actually does have the goods, but is waiting for the Republican base to rally around McCain so they achieve maximum effect from the story?
Interesting theory.
Zero evidence in support of the theory.
Usually on SDN, such wild speculation is frowned upon... unless the standards of evidence were relaxed when I wasn't paying attention. In which case I'd like to propose a theory, completely unsupported by any evidence, that the Chinese are secretly space aliens looking to steal all the cheese from the French.
So hostile.
I'll put you down as a "no" then. This is one time where I think the truth will come out fairly quickly.
Not hostile, just somewhat annoyed by what I've been reading, especially the last couple of weeks. McCain may very well be fucking some whore on the side in exchange for political favors; the NYT might even have a videotape of McCain getting a rimjob from said whore. But until that evidence is produced, it's all just wild speculation and, as a board, we should acknowledge that.
Keep in mind too that the burden of proof for proving these sorts of things is on the person making the assertion. It's not my job to prove that McCain's not fucking this lady; it's your job to prove that he is, otherwise you should acknowledge that this article is as valid as the Bat Boy articles in the Weekly World News.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Despite the emphasis a lot of posters have put on the affair*, you're right, the real story is his use of influence in exchange for either campaign cash, contributions in kind (use of private aircraft, etc), and if the NYT story is true, sex.
Stravo in his post said that he was running into the same thing; people talking about the sex and not realizing the allegations of corruption contained in the story.
As for its veracity, if the Times ran it despite Bob Bennett's 'advice' not to, then if nothing else it proves that the reporters, editors, and lawyers they ran it by believed it was credible enough to withstand a libel suit.
IOW, they believe that the allegations are, if not true, legitimate enough to be reported on.
And as for the timing, any suggestion of a conspiracy on the part of the NYT isn't credible at all.
Consider this:
Releasing it in December would have put the final bullet into McCain's dying campaign and killed it.
Releasing it in October would severely damage McCain's chances in the November election.
Releasing it now, in February, right after he's sewn up the nomination does very little, considering the short attention span of the average American and the fast news cycle.
If I were John McCain and the story is true, I'd be on my knees thanking God that it came out now instead of in late December 2007 or late October this year.
*I understand it though, as the temptation to laugh and point at sanctimonious hypocrites is strong indeed.
Especially when it comes from someone who keeps trumpeting his own ethical character like McCain does.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Also, wasn't this "affair" (sexual or political) something like 8 years ago?
Part of McCain's whole act is that he was originally part of the "Keating 5" and has since reformed, cleaned up his act, and become a Golden Boy. A dalliance that long ago would actually fit in with the "I've reformed since then!" platform.
I think the NYT is actually doing him a favor by releasing this now, instead of when it could do damage. And as Glocksman said, who'll remember in a few weeks? The Democrats are where all the drama is taking place, anyway.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Coyote wrote:I think the NYT is actually doing him a favor by releasing this now, instead of when it could do damage. And as Glocksman said, who'll remember in a few weeks? The Democrats are where all the drama is taking place, anyway.
There would have been even more coverage of it the day after it broke, if not for the incidents (still-ongoing) in Belgrade that involved the US and other embassies. McCain caught a break with that.
