Turkish soldiers on the Iraqi border in December 2007
Turkish forces have been massing on the border for months
Turkish forces have crossed into Iraq in what seems to be their biggest operation against Kurdish rebels sheltering there in years.
Up to 10,000 troops may be involved in the operation which, according to the army, began on Thursday evening after an air and artillery bombardment.
Turkey promised its force would "return home in the shortest time possible after its goals have been achieved".
The US military says it believes the operation is "of limited duration".
Turkey has promised to do everything possible to avoid "collateral damage to innocent civilians or Kurdish infrastructure," said Rear Adm Gregory Smith, a US spokesman in Iraq.
But another US official quoted by Reuters news agency appeared to express concern about the scale of the Turkish operation.
It was "not the greatest news" and marked "a whole new level", Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza said in Brussels
'Unusual timing'
"A cross-border ground operation backed by the Air Force was launched at 1900 [1700 GMT on Thursday]," the military aid.
A PKK fighter at a camp inside Iraq, near the Turkish border, in December 2007
PKK fighters are known to use the northern Iraq as a base
Turkey has carried out at least one, smaller ground incursion, as well as frequent air and artillery strikes, against suspected PKK targets in Iraq since parliament authorised the army to act in October 2007.
The Turks made several major incursions against the PKK in northern Iraq in the years before the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.
After Turkish broadcaster NTV reported that 10,000 soldiers had crossed the border on Thursday, a Turkish military source confirmed for Reuters news agency that two brigades had been deployed.
A brigade numbers up to 5,000 troops, the agency notes.
The operation's timing is unusual as the mountainous border area is still covered with heavy snow and there have been no major PKK attacks inside Turkey for some time, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford reports from Istanbul.
More than 30,000 people have been killed since the PKK began fighting for a Kurdish homeland in south-eastern Turkey in 1984.
Baghdad 'unaware'
As news of the operation broke, Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told the BBC he was not aware of any incursion since speaking to BBC correspondent Jim Muir late on Thursday.
The minister, himself a Kurd from northern Iraq, said he had been in touch with people in the north and in Istanbul, as well as being in close contact with the US.
Rear Adm Smith said the US supported Turkey's "right to defend itself from the terrorist activities of the PKK" and encouraged it to "co-ordinate closely with the government of Iraq".
On Thursday, there was a tense stand-off between Kurdish Peshmerga forces and Turkish troops who had advanced out of the two fixed bases they have inside northern Iraq, our correspondent adds.
The Turkish troops returned to base without shots being fired
Matthew Bryza so far commented that such a massive operation is a "new level" and "no good news for US" in a Reuters interview.
Hmm... I guess if Turks press on, they'd be met by Kurd paramilitary; in which case, whose side will the US take?
I wonder what is really going on indeed - there were no PPK attacks and Turkey claimed success of earlier operations and bombing. Strange.
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Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
MKSheppard wrote:Oh great; we're moving steadily through the escalating "clusterfuck" levels.
Fixed.
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? Y'know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! Y'know, I just do things..." --The Joker
^Not unless hell froze over and Satan is giving the lorda a lapdance at this very moment.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Turkey wants to be an EU member, but Greece has been delaying the process of their entry, because of their feud over Cyprus, IIRC.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
While everyone is lamenting the situation, my only thought is "why didn't this happen sooner?" Not that I find it desirable, but Turkey entering Kurdish Iraq always struck me as inevitable.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Talk about conflict of interests. Hopefully, this mess will be resolved BEFORE American troops find themselves trying to mediate between two allies who hate each other's guts.
On Thursday, there was a tense stand-off between Kurdish Peshmerga forces and Turkish troops who had advanced out of the two fixed bases they have inside northern Iraq, our correspondent adds.
Turkey has military bases IN Iraq?! (Puts on tin foil hat.) The Turks intend to conquer Kurdistan and restore the Ottoman Empire! (Takes off tin foil hat.) Is there any explanation for why in hell the Turks built military bases IN Iraq?
Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.
They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
MKSheppard wrote:Oh great; we're moving into "clusterfuck" levels.
Hasn't this been evident for seveal years now?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
MKSheppard wrote:Oh great; we're moving into "clusterfuck" levels.
Don't worry. Bill Kristol said that the whole Iraq fiasco will go down in history as a landmark success story. And as we all know, Bill Kristol is always Right.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
MKSheppard wrote:Oh great; we're moving into "clusterfuck" levels.
Don't worry. Bill Kristol said that the whole Iraq fiasco will go down in history as a landmark success story. And as we all know, Bill Kristol is always Right.
Are you sure that wasn't a Billy Crystal joke?
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Trogdor wrote:Turkey wants to be an EU member, but Greece has been delaying the process of their entry, because of their feud over Cyprus, IIRC.
It is not only Greece. Turkey has failed almost every standard for membership (the last progress report said they only passed 6 out of 45 categories, iirc), the European public opinion is dead set against a Turkey membership (with only 28% being in favor of it) and I cannot see what possible advantages they would bring to the Union. Plus, there is this thing with of them signing a treaty and then issuing a written statement that they will only stand by to half of what they signed.
And given the recent Turkish ranting like "integrating into a foreign society when living abroad is a crime against humanity", I doubt they will get in anytime soon.
Turkey's response: WAAAH. They are insulting us. WAAAH.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
MKSheppard wrote:Oh great; we're moving into "clusterfuck" levels.
Don't worry. Bill Kristol said that the whole Iraq fiasco will go down in history as a landmark success story. And as we all know, Bill Kristol is always Right.
Are you sure that wasn't a Billy Crystal joke?
I think you've got them confused. Billy Crystal is some guy who used to host the Oscars, while Bill Kristol is one of the most brilliant comedians in America. His satirical portrayal of a gibbering-idiot right-wing ideologue is so pitch-perfect that one would almost believe he's serious, except that no human being on Earth could be so fucking stupid.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
