Why have awsome religions died and chrisitianity lives on?

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-02-20 12:11am

I was wondering to myself today, how is it that fairly cool religions like Greek and Egyptian and such have been pretty much totally dismissed as complete and utter bogus when shit like christianity is just as popular as ever? It can't be because it is generally accepted that the sun is a ball of hydrogen, not the avatar of a god, or that sea storms do not happen because Posiedon is horny (which he frequently is). I mean, some fundies believe that hell is actually in the center of the earth, or so I'm told. It's pretty confusing to me that a religion so linear and boring as christianity could outlive one that features rain-clouds who impregnate people and stuff.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2008-02-20 01:08am

It can't be because it is generally accepted that the sun is a ball of hydrogen, not the avatar of a god, or that sea storms do not happen because Posiedon is horny (which he frequently is).

Why not?

BountyHunterSAx · Post by **BountyHunterSAx** » 2008-02-20 01:57am

Stas Bush wrote:
It can't be because it is generally accepted that the sun is a ball of hydrogen, not the avatar of a god, or that sea storms do not happen because Posiedon is horny (which he frequently is).
Why not?

I believe the point he was trying to make is that enough fundamentalists still believe things that are just as out-of-whack. He then went on to give an example.

In other words, why should one crazy idea outlast another?

-AHMAD

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-02-20 02:09am

Being fairly well in line with Rome's imperial ideology certainly helped.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-02-20 03:08am

There are a number of reasons.

Partly it's just forces of history. The Abrahamic religions got lucky at several points, so to speak. Not the least significant of these was the fact that it just so happened that the culture that basically conquered the planet in the 16-19th centuries was Christian.

Partly it's the zeal with which Christianity and Islam sought converts, which wasn't matched by most pagan religions. Polytheists tended to think of their gods as stronger and better than the gods of other religions but basically just the top of the bunch. Christianity and Islam were big on the whole "there is only one God and everybody should worship it" thing.

Partly it's the fact that the Abrahamic religions had a more charismatic narrative than most pagan ones. Compare Christianity to the ancient Greek religion:

Christianity: there's one God that you're supposed to worship cause He created and controls everything and is the font of all goodness. If you worship Him He'll give you an eternal life with no suffering after you die, no matter how lowly you are in this life, just as long as you're good. To know how to be good you just have to do everything in this book. But you better do it because otherwise there's a bad afterlife and you go there instead.

Greek: there's a bunch of different gods. It's a long story but basically they mostly act like a bunch of quarrelsome drunken frat boys. You better make sacrifices to them because they tend to get pissy and screw you over for kicks otherwise. When you die ... well, if you're some kind of awesome demi-god like Hercules maybe they'll hang you up in a constellation or something, but the most likely thing is you'll spend the rest of eternity in a dark, dismal place of shadows.

Post by **Edi** » 2008-02-20 04:43am

The followers of Abrahamic religions were more capable and efficient at exterminating people who followed other religions and their religion essentially commanded them to kill those who did not convert. It is no accident that Christianity and Islam were spread by the sword, not because they were so awesome as such, though the pandering to the peasants, slaves and other people living in shitty conditions also helped.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2008-02-20 05:24am

Junghalli wrote: Greek: there's a bunch of different gods. It's a long story but basically they mostly act like a bunch of quarrelsome drunken frat boys. You better make sacrifices to them because they tend to get pissy and screw you over for kicks otherwise. When you die ... well, if you're some kind of awesome demi-god like Hercules maybe they'll hang you up in a constellation or something, but the most likely thing is you'll spend the rest of eternity in a dark, dismal place of shadows.

I think this one is the key, really.

There were few anough pagan religions with this kind of promise ; Most only promised a great afterlife to great warriors and badass awesome dudes, while Christianity basically whored itself out to everyone who would listen.

You're a peasant? No worries, you get a palace in Heaven! Oh, so you're really a noble and already have one? You'll get ten! And no suffering, either! Just be good, pay your dues and follow the commandments.

Compare this an extortion racket:

Greek gods wrote:Pay us your dues, worship us, be our bitch...and we will fuck you over anyway!

Christian God wrote:Worship me, pay your dues, be my bitch and I promise I won't fuck you over.

Obviously, the second spiel will be vastly more succesful.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2008-02-20 07:07am

Like Edi said, Christianity and Islam are simply very well-adapted to spreading and wiping out competitors. In fact, only recently in the last couple of centuries has secularism (in the loose sense of a competitor; it's not a religion) been a serious competitor to Christianity in the West.

And who says Christianity isn't cool? Imagine how exotic it must seem to someone who's raised into, say, a pantheistic or polytheistic religion.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-20 08:29am

Indeed, the Isaic cult, a comparison I like to come back to mainly because it was around in Rome at the same time as Early Christians, and was semi-monotheistic, (but ultimately less successful for other reasons) was regarded as highly exotic, being semi-monotheistic in its claims.

As for why Christianity has prospered - Monotheism is unlimited in its domain. Egyptian gods are only concerned with Egypt; Greek Gods are based out of Olympus, and so on. These things really need to be changed (see Isaic cult again) to have broad foreign appeal.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-02-20 09:05am

The Greek mythos DID have a good afterlife for the righteous: the Elysian Fields. Still, no argument that the Christian religion is much better at self-propagation.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2008-02-20 10:21am

The Greek mythos DID have a good afterlife for the righteous: the Elysian Fields.

Except it's reserved for the relatives of gods and heroes. Mere mortals can at best hope to become spectres wandering the plains with no memories or sense of self.

IIRC the biggest draw of Christianity was that it offered everyone a chance; wheras in many polytheistic religions you could only get into a decent afterlife through glory or by family relations, in christianity it's enough to live along a few fairly simple rules and pray often. Everyone's special in christianity - a big step up from, say, Greek pantheism where everyone's just a toy for the gods and only a select few have any shot at immortality.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-02-20 10:25am

Could we get one of the "Why Christianity Prospered" threads put up in The Library? I swear a new one of these things pops up every couple months.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2008-02-20 10:30am

There's also the popular image of Christianity. The Abrahamic Gods are not only loving gods, they're actively involved in your life and monitor everything you do.

Compare this to the images of their competitor gods. The Greek Gods monitor what you do for their own pleasures and screw you for their own fun. Unless you're nobility, you're insignificant in the eyes of the Egyptian Gods. Shamanistic gods were too cruel and nasty compared to the popular image of the loving God.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » 2008-02-20 12:35pm

I think the biggest reason is that Christianity did not really limit itself to one racial group or region as its domain.

In addition very few polytheistic religions were all that interested in gathering new followers.

As a comparison consider the Freemans and the Democrat party. The mason are a fairly close knit group that doesnt go out of its way to add new members. On the other hand the DNC is always looking to add new members. Which one is larger?

Now consider that polytheistic relgions were fairly tolerant of each other while Christianity and Islam had no problem putting people who didnt believe as they did to the sword.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2008-02-20 12:36pm

PainRack wrote:There's also the popular image of Christianity. The Abrahamic Gods are not only loving gods, they're actively involved in your life and monitor everything you do.

Compare this to the images of their competitor gods. The Greek Gods monitor what you do for their own pleasures and screw you for their own fun. Unless you're nobility, you're insignificant in the eyes of the Egyptian Gods. Shamanistic gods were too cruel and nasty compared to the popular image of the loving God.

Hey, some of the Greek gods sound fun at a party. Or an orgy, for that matter. As long as I didn't have to run into any Maenads...

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2008-02-20 03:07pm

What happened in the roman empire:

When there were christian emperors, they started financing conversions en masse and even used force to close down on pagan temples. Trust me, nothing says "convert" better than a squad of legionnaires.

The fact that christian churches and temples were tax-exempt while pagan temples were fair game to mobs and were often seized by the christian state plays a huge role as well.

Combine that with a lot of religious terrorism by christians and you get the idea. Seriously, all the people clamoring about radical islam nowadays should read up on the history of their "faith of love". You can find all the things islamists do today in early christianity.

If there is an interest, I could go on in more detail about the religious terrorism by the christians - I am quite knowledgeable in that area, but fear the details will be pretty boring.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2008-02-20 06:41pm

Christianity has the will to dominate and usually a political backing to follow that up. It also lends itself well to authoritarian hierarchies and has a carrot and stick beyond the grave to manipulate people by.

Lambda 00 · Post by **Lambda 00** » 2008-02-20 07:49pm

Baal wrote: Christianity and Islam had no problem putting people who didnt believe as they did to the sword.

Including each other. Little question, I wonder if the turbulence of the times had anything to do with it (why certain ones went extinct)?

redmagister · Post by **redmagister** » 2008-02-22 03:20pm

it's a combo attack, it's a highly brutal religion with the will and backbone to spread as far as humanly possible, and it's highly appealing to peasants with it's blanket policy on the afterlife, so the damn thing is ridiculously hard to wipe out. the whole religion is designed to spread, the other's mistake was being to specific in defining the;r target demographics.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-02-22 06:23pm

I don't see how this thread's central question is any different from asking why there was this wonderful little seafood restaurant that died while McDonald's continues to thrive in the same neighbourhood. Popularity often has little or nothing to do with quality.

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2008-02-23 10:03am

I was wondering to myself today, how is it that fairly cool religions like Greek and Egyptian and such have been pretty much totally dismissed as complete and utter bogus when shit like christianity is just as popular as ever?

Most other religions didn't have as good marketing. You have to admit that the "convert or die" style of conversion can be very effective.

Furthermore, Greek and Egyptian religions were local and locally tied in mythology (Egyptians particularly with the Nile), while Christianity not so much.

Oh and did I mention that crazy Roman emperor that ruthlessly hunted Christians, got hit on the head and then turned sides and ruthlessly began spreading Christianity? Having a Roman Emperor on the side can really boost the ranks.