The Matrix: almost good

[Gullible Jones]

Since I'm behind the times and only got to see this famous SF movie tonight, I might as well tell everyone what I thought of it. So...

It's painfully close to being decent. Painfully. The scene with the literal bug and Neo's mouth being melted shut, Neo waking up full of tubes and seeing endless columns of other sleepers, the baby farms - you want to see more of that weirdness, you know? You want to see the the resistance trying to keep a foothold in a completely alien environment, fully of all kinds of incomprehensible machinery and creepy automated sentinals. You want to see a robotic hive that's eaten the entire Earth and is spreading across the solar system. You want to see layers of increasingly bizarre virtual reality peeled back.

Instead... You get kung-fu. And some cheesy crap about fate and Neo being the Messiah.

I mean, it's not like I didn't know it would eventually become an action flick, but damn, it actually got off to a good, weird start before it started sucking. I think this is the most I've ever been disappointed by a movie, really.

[Junghalli]

Yeah, the original Matrix was massively better than the sequels.

[Nephtys]

The sequels were ORIGINALLY going to be about something better, so I read ages ago. That the Matrix was partially controlled from distributed computing of the other coppertops, in places such as Neo's old office place. So that his role in economic life was a metaphor or something. So by smashing the old system, blah blah blah whatever.

Sounds like the original movie, but continued. Instead, we get giant robot machine gunning down space squids while evil frenchmen plot against poor, indian migrant computer programs during flying kung-fu fights.

[FA Xerrik]

It sounds like you're comparing two different qualities of the movie. I mean, as a weird flick I'm sure it did disappoint. But as an action flick, it was incredibly good. The way he has to come into his powers, and doesn't find them easily. Way better when the characters grew like that, and drove the story, rather than the "lolz kung fu" behind the other two...

[Gullible Jones]

I get that it was supposed to be an action movie, it just felt like... you know... the "weird" stuff could have been used to much better effect. I'm imagining this scenario where Neo gets pulled through a series of nested "realities", and each one is more heavily mechanized than the last.

Maybe I should watch Dark City. That looks more like the sort of thing I'm thinking of.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Sounds like it is, though keep in mind that Dark City isn't at all an action movie like The Matrix. More of a neo-Noir thing.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Sounds like it is, though keep in mind that Dark City isn't at all an action movie like The Matrix. More of a neo-Noir thing.

neo-Neo-Noir?.

Also, Spanky you seem like someone to ask, did the Wachowski's ever admit to ripping off the "Agents" from Dark-city for the matrix? (Although the aliens there were more like Neo, and were more logical than super-tough human-forms. Rewritting reality makes far more sense for the Matrix agents).

[Shinova]

This might just be a rumor or just an unfounded accusation, but I've read before that the Wachowski brothers actually ripped the story of the Matrix off of a diffent author and made a movie out of it, and that the sequels were their only original creation.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

did the Wachowski's ever admit to ripping off the "Agents" from Dark-city for the matrix?

Honestly they don't seem anything like the agents other than being similar in function as antagonists.

This might just be a rumor or just an unfounded accusation, but I've read before that the Wachowski brothers actually ripped the story of the Matrix off of a diffent author and made a movie out of it, and that the sequels were their only original creation.

It was true in the sense that a woman accused both Matrix and Terminator series were ripped off from a story/script of hers, but she could only outline a list of incredibly vague and simplistic not-so similarities between them.

She attempted to sue Warner Bros. but the case ended up getting thrown out of court.

[Nephtys]

This might just be a rumor or just an unfounded accusation, but I've read before that the Wachowski brothers actually ripped the story of the Matrix off of a diffent author and made a movie out of it, and that the sequels were their only original creation.

I actually heard this one too a few years back. Something about the Matrix's general story and themes ('Choice', a computer simulation, etc) being stolen from some polish or Eastern European novel...

[Kristoff]

I actually heard this one too a few years back. Something about the Matrix's general story and themes ('Choice', a computer simulation, etc) being stolen from some Polish or Eastern European novel...

"Aniol przemocy" ("The angel of violence") by Adam Wisniewski-Snerg. Spoiler

Yes, this short story (~7 pages) is about people living in a computer similation, and yes - they don't know they're living in a computer simulation. The difference is that simulated reality is hi-tech and they treat simulated reality (2nd layer) as entertainment, not knowing they already live in one. There's no "choice", no "chosen one" and of course no agents. Main character discovers she live in a computer simulation when she's released from it when her time has come to experience 24 hours of reality. She wakes up in "glass coffin", floating in warm translucent liquid and she sees "millions" of people laying in similar "coffins".

[VF5SS]

I liked the Matrix better when it was called Megazone 23.

[Vympel]

Instead, we get giant robot machine gunning down space squids while evil frenchmen plot against poor, indian migrant computer programs during flying kung-fu fights.

Fucking hell, best quote I've read all week.

[FSTargetDrone]

Sounds like the original movie, but continued. Instead, we get giant robot machine gunning down space squids

I remember well the discussion here about the unbelievably absurd design of those human-piloted machines (along with other weird technology as seen in the film).

Every time I see those things in combat on TV on TBS or TNT (or whatever network runs the movies in blocks ad nauseum), I just laugh.

[Molyneux]

The Matrix could indeed have been done well as a surreal trip through nested layers of illusion - but to do so would have required far better authors than actually worked on the film. Maybe Grant Morrison could have pulled it off.

As an action flick, the first one was good. The second one worked pretty well solely on a "Cool fight scenes!" level, and the third one just plain stunk.

[Ryushikaze]

I liked the Matrix better when it was called Megazone 23.

Really? I'm not saying the Matrix was skippy on toast, but Megazone 23? Ouch.

[VF5SS]

Really? I'm not saying the Matrix was skippy on toast, but Megazone 23? Ouch.

I fucking love Megazone 23. All of it. It's a classic OVA from the 80's. Hell, it's the first successful (non porn) OVA because nobody watched Space Station Snoozefest Dallos. It great! Full of action, drama, and robots that actually protect the pilot. The Wachowskis are the right age to have seen this on VHS back in the day and you can't deny the plot similarities. A young man finds out that his world is artificial and controlled by a giant computer. Government agents want to get him because he knows too much. Except this time there's awesome 80's J-Pop with wicked guitar riffs and the main character works at McDonalds.

[Darth Wong]

I remember the first time I watched The Matrix, and what drove me nuts was that every major plot development in the film was telegraphed so far in advance. Ooooh, Morpheus has to spend ten minutes explaining a 20 second concept. And then you spend the whole rest of the movie waiting for Neo to figure out that he can control his environment, because it's all a VR world anyway and he's The One, so you know how the movie is going to end before it's even half finished.

That film has precisely one appeal: "OH MAN, THAT LOOKS SO KEWL!!!" Take that away, and it's got absolutely nothing.

[Ryushikaze]

Really? I'm not saying the Matrix was skippy on toast, but Megazone 23? Ouch.

I fucking love Megazone 23. All of it. It's a classic OVA from the 80's. Hell, it's the first successful (non porn) OVA because nobody watched Space Station Snoozefest Dallos. It great! Full of action, drama, and robots that actually protect the pilot. The Wachowskis are the right age to have seen this on VHS back in the day and you can't deny the plot similarities. A young man finds out that his world is artificial and controlled by a giant computer. Government agents want to get him because he knows too much. Except this time there's awesome 80's J-Pop with wicked guitar riffs and the main character works at McDonalds.

Touche. I suppose my biggest problem with Megazone was the incredible amount of dead air it contained. The entire series could have lopped a third of its run time and not lost any of the relevant or skippy bits. That, and it was- for me at least- far too heavy handed in its commentary on 80's Japan. Yes, I got the point five 80's moments ago. Can we PLEASE get to the plot? Come to think of it, that's kind of where most of the dead air was.

Of course, the Matrix as a trilogy wound up being far worse about wasted time (and wasted everything else) than Megazone, but the first? Idunno. Even though as Wong said, everything in the movie was telegraphed to hell, Megazone felt more so. I'd have to watch them again to see if I still think that way, but as it stands, first matrix edges out first megazone. Barely, but it does.

I would rather take the full Megazone over Full Matrix, however.

[VF5SS]

Touche. I suppose my biggest problem with Megazone was the incredible amount of dead air it contained. The entire series could have lopped a third of its run time and not lost any of the relevant or skippy bits. That, and it was- for me at least- far too heavy handed in its commentary on 80's Japan. Yes, I got the point five 80's moments ago. Can we PLEASE get to the plot? Come to think of it, that's kind of where most of the dead air was.

I think you missed the point of the show. The parts in the beginning were there not as commentary, but just a slice of life! That's how Tokyo looked back when the first Megazone 23 was made back in 1985. I think they did a great job compressing the plot of what was to be a 25 episode TV show into an 85 minutes OVA. Sure there's some plot conveniences but it's still moving with robots and bikes and FLASH DANCE.

[une]

The Matrix could indeed have been done well as a surreal trip through nested layers of illusion - but to do so would have required far better authors than actually worked on the film. Maybe Grant Morrison could have pulled it off.

He already did, it's called the Invisibles.

Seriously, if you read the Invisibles, it's shocking just how much the Matrix stole from it. That whole blue pill or red pill thing? Straight out of the Invisibles. Jumping off of the sky scraper? Straight out of the Invisibles.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Since I'm behind the times and only got to see this famous SF movie tonight, I might as well tell everyone what I thought of it. So...

It's painfully close to being decent. Painfully. The scene with the literal bug and Neo's mouth being melted shut, Neo waking up full of tubes and seeing endless columns of other sleepers, the baby farms - you want to see more of that weirdness, you know? You want to see the the resistance trying to keep a foothold in a completely alien environment, fully of all kinds of incomprehensible machinery and creepy automated sentinals. You want to see a robotic hive that's eaten the entire Earth and is spreading across the solar system. You want to see layers of increasingly bizarre virtual reality peeled back.

I agree I did want to see more of that, but it wasn't that which was the most appealing to me. It was the idea that the human mind in an artificial enviroment could bend if not completely break those rules. It was the idea that the battlefield was not the real world, but the virtual world where the power of the mind could be applied.

Instead... You get kung-fu. And some cheesy crap about fate and Neo being the Messiah.

I totally get the compliant about the messiah shit, but whining about Kung-Fu? Those scenes were what made the Matrix a great action movie.

[Darth Wong]

I agree I did want to see more of that, but it wasn't that which was the most appealing to me. It was the idea that the human mind in an artificial enviroment could bend if not completely break those rules. It was the idea that the battlefield was not the real world, but the virtual world where the power of the mind could be applied.

Why is that appealing? All it means is that The Matrix is a high-tech MMORPG and Neo figured out the cheat codes. Oooooooh.

That's not "the power of the mind". That's the power of the lame cheater, taking advantage of an MMORPG whose designers built in lame cheat codes.

[Molyneux]

I agree I did want to see more of that, but it wasn't that which was the most appealing to me. It was the idea that the human mind in an artificial enviroment could bend if not completely break those rules. It was the idea that the battlefield was not the real world, but the virtual world where the power of the mind could be applied.

Why is that appealing? All it means is that The Matrix is a high-tech MMORPG and Neo figured out the cheat codes. Oooooooh.

That's not "the power of the mind". That's the power of the lame cheater, taking advantage of an MMORPG whose designers built in lame cheat codes.

I figured it was more him rewriting the code as it was running...though most programs would just crash if someone tried that, I think.

[Gullible Jones]

It certainly doesn't say anything good about the machines' intelligence.