EAS Cease-Fire and Debate Challenge

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-20 10:42pm

Ender wrote:I'm curious, what would the debate consist of should it commence? I mean, he's obviously not into the VS aspect. Would it be debates about the engineering of Trek ships, or aspects of their tech (which you have mentioned arguing before) or calcs and assumptions or what?

He has made all the standard Trekkie claims: Treknology is more realistic, would win in a battle because it's more "advanced", ST is sci-fi but SW is not, etc. I'm sure one of them could be selected.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-20 11:01pm

Whatever happens, this WILL be good. *makes popcorn*

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-20 11:59pm

Alyeska wrote:I tried, I really did. I did my best to try and mediate this for the imediate concerns, but neither side really cares.

MOO, they litterally do not trust people from SD.net, they even list you. When you make statements like that, this does not reinforce a possitive image for them to see.

So what Alyeska?

Are appearances more important to you then the cold truth?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-21 12:02am

Alyeska wrote:Though one last thing. I don't want to hear one fucking word from anyone about my posting both at EAS and SD.net. Not one fucking word of BS about it.

Quit fucking whining.

You chose to go over there with a private peacemaking agenda to appease views.

There was no guarrentee we were all behind you or would follow whatever negotiations you made.

You made the initiative, no one else, you're not the ambassador, and don't act all disappointed like you thought better of us. You went, you chose to speak for the forum, and Mike's interested in ironing out the bullshit.

So fucking what?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-21 12:14am

Primus, pipe down.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-21 12:27am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:So fucking what?

Because mindless flaming between the board does nothing but poison relations between two boards when there is no point in the first place.

At least SOME people appreciate my efforts, even if they haven't exactly succeded. Hell, even Mike gave me credit.

What I was trying to stop was the things that were pissing each side off. The fact that you don't want me to stop them from saying things that piss you off is rather interesting. It sounds like you WANT to be POed with them and keep flamming them. You don't want them to become good debaters because then you wouldn't have people to flame.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-21 12:52am

Alyeska wrote:Because mindless flaming between the board does nothing but poison relations between two boards when there is no point in the first place.

The poison continued far after the attempt. If you try, you try, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

The fact that it did last as well as the thinly veiled superiority vibe coming off the mod who visited here, shows they're incorrigible and see us as a bunch of primitives. Point being, when Wong and others show a disdain for Bernd's crap and wish to set the record straight, you shouldn't get angry at this forum's members for poisioning the truce.

Alyeska wrote:At least SOME people appreciate my efforts, even if they haven't exactly succeded. Hell, even Mike gave me credit.

I think they were admirable, but when it failed, I felt it was out of place and inappropriate for you to get angry at us.

Alyeska wrote:What I was trying to stop was the things that were pissing each side off.

This is amiable.

Alyeska wrote:The fact that you don't want me to stop them from saying things that piss you off is rather interesting. It sounds like you WANT to be POed with them and keep flamming them. You don't want them to become good debaters because then you wouldn't have people to flame.

While I appreciate your psychoanalysis of me (which ignores the post I made on their forum pointing out the SW vs. ST forum is not a slug match or mocking circle or "insult the DarkStar" spot), the point is, they'll almost certainly not respect our methods and our anti-technobabble points solely by the manner of their statements AND the pseudoscience Mike has pointed out. The forum will never really be an area of free speech of SD.net-ers and those who try and point out the errors of pseudoscience and what isn't smart in Trek or whatever because of scientific analysis will be accused of flaming. We know what they think of our methods.

You wanted to persue an appearances-only nice relationship, and complained to us as if it was our fault they continued to complain about us after their "truce," excuse me for finding that out of place and somewhat stupid.

And where does it say I didn't think we should suppress a forum war? No where. But when things don't work out, that's the way it is, and no one here is entitled to unilaterally put up with their crap, which is why I did not take well to your complaining toward us.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-21 12:55am

What the heck is this about a truce? I wasn't aware that we were at war. EAS isn't sending an invasion force over here and we're not sending an invasion over there. No one is at war here; the members of both boards just have a difference of opinion. There's utterly nothing wrong with that.

EAS is never going to agree with us and we're never going to agree with them and any attempts to bring about a 'truce' where both 'sides' either stop talking about eachother or accept eachother's opinions are quite pointless. Both sides have every right to say whatever they want to say about the other in the comfort of their own forums. EAS has every right to sit over there and bash us and we have every right to sit over here and bash them.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-21 12:58am

Alyeska wrote:Because mindless flaming between the board does nothing but poison relations between two boards when there is no point in the first place.

People disagree. That's life. As long as we're not disagreeing by sending invasions or hacking each others sites there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a disagreement.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-21 01:10am

Enlightenment wrote:EAS is never going to agree with us and we're never going to agree with them and any attempts to bring about a 'truce' where both 'sides' either stop talking about eachother or accept eachother's opinions are quite pointless. Both sides have every right to say whatever they want to say about the other in the comfort of their own forums. EAS has every right to sit over there and bash us and we have every right to sit over here and bash them.

Exactly.

Since it's painfully obvious that they'll never extend objectivity and free speech to us, I found it perplexing you were mad at us, Alyeska.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-21 05:47am

Quit fucking whining.

You chose to go over there with a private peacemaking agenda to appease views.

Hmm.

After reading that oh-so-wonderful brand of intelligent posting, I suddenly have an urge to head over there and start posting myself, just for shits and giggles.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-21 10:27am

The good doctor has forfeited.

Doctor Schneider wrote:
I have a double role as an administrator of this message board and, on the other hand, as someone who has a very strong opinion about Mike Wong and SD.net. I have failed in doing the first by letting out my displeasure at this place, thereby encouraging other members of the SCN to do the same.

Mike,

Regarding your challenge I see no sense in beating a dead horse. Feel free to declare yourself the winner of the debate.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-01-21 10:43am

It's more like he conceided. (in a rather selfrighteus manner)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-21 11:03am

Thats nice of him
Now if it IS beating a dead horse why DOES he have such a dismal opinon of Mr Wong is then question....

Illogical Hatred?

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2003-01-21 11:05am

Sir Sirius wrote:It's more like he conceided.

Sirius is right, I believe you have to begin a debate to forfeit it.

(Yes I did read the sz 2 part as well)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-21 12:18pm

Doctor Schneider wrote:
I have a double role as an administrator of this message board and, on the other hand, as someone who has a very strong opinion about Mike Wong and SD.net. I have failed in doing the first by letting out my displeasure at this place, thereby encouraging other members of the SCN to do the same.

Mike,

Regarding your challenge I see no sense in beating a dead horse. Feel free to declare yourself the winner of the debate.

Passive agression present in tha tpost aside, it's too bad. That could have quite possibly been the most interesting debate yet.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 12:27pm

I went over there to say my piece:

Darth Wong wrote:
Bernd Schneider wrote:Regarding your challenge I see no sense in beating a dead horse. Feel free to declare yourself the winner of the debate.
Who said anything about a dead horse? I don't want to debate about the feud that went on between your board (which is STILL slamming my board, as seen by Nathan F's comments to Alyeska) and mine.

No, I see that you have been saying for quite some time that my methods are wrong, my honesty lacking, and perhaps even my character faulty. You do not have the right to attack someone without giving him his day in court, Bernd. Unless you wish to either apologize for slandering me in public or admit publicly that you are a coward, answer the challenge.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-21 12:34pm

He edited your post.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 12:38pm

Fucking pussies. So this is how they deal with my demand for a day in court to defend myself from their leader's cowardly public attacks on me, eh?

I posted this:

Darth Wong wrote:Ah, so you're allowed to continue talking trash about my board, but I can't even ask Bernd for my day in court to defend myself from his constant public slander. I see.

And a follow-up:

Darth Wong wrote:I suppose you'll edit that message too, eh?

Now the wisdom of me copying all of my EAS posts here becomes ever more clear.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-21 12:41pm

Just E-mail Bernd and post a copy of the e-mail. Leave the EAS board out of it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 12:43pm

He already edited that one too. I'm going to post a new topic on the main page now, called "Public Debate Challenge":

Darth Wong wrote:Bernd, stop hiding behind your followers. If you're going to slander me in public, I demand my day in court. Your moderators are deleting or editing every post I make now, no matter how civil the wording is. I'm not sure how long this post will last before your censorship forces delete or destroy it, but do you think it's OK to slander people and then refuse to give them their day in court, Bernd?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 12:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Felix Demens CCXXI wrote:Al has dropped it over here, Ossus has dropped it over here, Hansen has done the wise thing and didn't get involved... Why can't you follow their example?
I HAVE dropped it. Now I want a debate with Bernd himself, not with you people. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-21 12:59pm

OK, the following E-mail has been sent to Bernd directly:

Darth Wong wrote:Bernd, you obviously don't like me, but frankly, since we have not interacted except for an E-mail discussion of several years ago which you will note that I did NOT put up on my Hate Mail page, I see no reason for your continuing animosity. Moreover, I don't see how you claim the right to publicly slander me as a dishonest person without giving me the right to defend myself.

I don't know what standards of behaviour you think are acceptable, but if you believe that it's bad for me to publicly say bad things about a TV show but OK for you to publicly say bad things about a HUMAN BEING without giving him the right to defend himself, then you have a truly warped set of priorities.

I posted the following on your board:
Bernd Schneider wrote:Regarding your challenge I see no sense in beating a dead horse. Feel free to declare yourself the winner of the debate.
Who said anything about a dead horse? I don't want to debate about the feud that went on between your board (which is STILL slamming my board, as seen by Nathan F's comments to Alyeska) and mine.

No, I see that you have been saying for quite some time that my methods are wrong, my honesty lacking, and perhaps even my character faulty. You do not have the right to attack someone without giving him his day in court, Bernd. Unless you wish to either apologize for slandering me in public or admit publicly that you are a coward, answer the challenge.
It was almost immediately deleted (or edited and replaced with blank space, to be more precise) by your moderators. I followed up with this:
Ah, so you're allowed to continue talking trash about my board, but I can't even ask Bernd for my day in court to defend myself from his constant public slander. I see.
And finally, I posted this:
Bernd, stop hiding behind your followers. If you're going to slander me in public, I demand my day in court. Your moderators are deleting or editing every post I make now, no matter how civil the wording is. I'm not sure how long this post will last before your censorship forces delete or destroy it, but do you think it's OK to slander people and then refuse to give them their day in court, Bernd?
Perhaps you think I am being unreasonable. But the fact is that you know perfectly well that I haven't been talking about you until now, after discovering what's been going on. If you just found out that I had been running around all this time talking trash about you for years (not just Star Trek, but YOU as a person), how would you feel? Would you demand your day in court? An apology?

Your self-righteous put-downs do not grant you the high road, Bernd. You have been slandering a man behind his back for years and you refuse to either apologize or give him his day in court. This is unacceptable behaviour and you know it. If I've got a problem with someone, I'll debate him. He will get his day in court. Can you say the same?

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2003-01-21 02:33pm

AS the Universe turns...

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-01-21 02:45pm

Guess who has added his voice to it all?

http://scn.infopop.net/0/OpenTopic?a=tp ... 2120964745