The Matrix: almost good

[FA Xerrik]

Wasn't there something in the second or third movie about there being multiple incarnations of the One throughout the history of the Matrix? As in, the Machines continued to recreate the one person who could overthrow their system. That was what really threw me from the later films, I enjoyed the first two but couldn't even bring myself to finish the third one.

[Zablorg]

Yeah, there was a bug in the system or something that arised in the form of The One, and if they didn't destroy him soon another One would come, which would pretty much crash it. Of course, it doesnt make any sense that having two entities in a system with unusual properties (that the system obviously knows how to handle) would cause the system to crash, but meh.

[Ryushikaze]

I think you missed the point of the show. The parts in the beginning were there not as commentary, but just a slice of life! That's how Tokyo looked back when the first Megazone 23 was made back in 1985. I think they did a great job compressing the plot of what was to be a 25 episode TV show into an 85 minutes OVA. Sure there's some plot conveniences but it's still moving with robots and bikes and FLASH DANCE.

I guess I'd just gotten jaded to animators from the same era trying to make social commentary out of sci fi and the like that I'm seeing it where it's not intended. They do hit you with an incredibly lot of it for such a short OAV. Though the pacing issues make sense now. Most every TV series turned OAV I've seen suffered from similar bouts of "get on with it". Do you happen to know of anyone who has produced a translated version of the full series? My biggest complaint with Megazone was that painfully slow start, and if the series can make it more interesting, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it in a different incarnation.

[Havok]

Wasn't there something in the second or third movie about there being multiple incarnations of the One throughout the history of the Matrix? As in, the Machines continued to recreate the one person who could overthrow their system. That was what really threw me from the later films, I enjoyed the first two but couldn't even bring myself to finish the third one.

IIRC, the One isn't created on purpose, but is a mathematical anomaly that manifests in the program that the Architect can't get out. So the machines adapted to this problem by playing along with the "One" every time he/she arises. The Architect says that there were 8 already, making Neo the 9th.

The humans in Zion will always loose, so the machines give the "One" a choice: Take some people from the Matrix and repopulate Zion and start the cycle of human vs. machine that we saw in the movies all over again, or crash the entire Matrix, killing every human plugged into it and have Zion be wiped out as well, causing the extinction of man. IIRC, the machines didn't want this because they already had the setup and it was a basically everlasting power source.

Neo, was the first "One" to not do things the way the machines wanted because of Trinity and Agent Smith, love and chaos, both things that the machines couldn't really comprehend, despite what the Indian guy in the train station says. (Perhaps, it was merely the Architect that couldn't understand, because his programing couldn't adapt to the concepts)

I'm sure there are some Matrix Boards or forums that will give better and more accurate explanations that I can. I just like the movies.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I agree I did want to see more of that, but it wasn't that which was the most appealing to me. It was the idea that the human mind in an artificial enviroment could bend if not completely break those rules. It was the idea that the battlefield was not the real world, but the virtual world where the power of the mind could be applied.

Why is that appealing? All it means is that The Matrix is a high-tech MMORPG and Neo figured out the cheat codes. Oooooooh.

That's not "the power of the mind". That's the power of the lame cheater, taking advantage of an MMORPG whose designers built in lame cheat codes.

You make it sound so plain. Did you enjoy the action?

[Darth Wong]

You make it sound so plain. Did you enjoy the action?

Which part? The lame-ass wire-fu? The retarded dumb-shit gunfighting where acrobatic somersaults apparently make you impossible to shoot? The use of ultra-cliched Hong Kong-style exaggerated fight choreography which American audiences only found to be strikingly innovative because they habitually don't recognize that the rest of the world exists? That part?

The only half-way interesting part of the whole damned movie was when Cipher betrayed the group. Other than that, it was sold purely on style.

[Kamakazie Sith]

You make it sound so plain. Did you enjoy the action?

Which part? The lame-ass wire-fu? The retarded dumb-shit gunfighting where acrobatic somersaults apparently make you impossible to shoot? The use of ultra-cliched Hong Kong-style exaggerated fight choreography which American audiences only found to be strikingly innovative because they habitually don't recognize that the rest of the world exists? That part?

The only half-way interesting part of the whole damned movie was when Cipher betrayed the group. Other than that, it was sold purely on style.

Alright, so you don't like that kind of thing. Very well. Though I do wonder what movies like Mortal Kombat, Aliens, Predator, etc had that the Matrix does not. I enjoyed all those movies not for their innovation, but for their action, and the individual qualities that they each did well.

[Darth Wong]

You make it sound so plain. Did you enjoy the action?

Which part? The lame-ass wire-fu? The retarded dumb-shit gunfighting where acrobatic somersaults apparently make you impossible to shoot? The use of ultra-cliched Hong Kong-style exaggerated fight choreography which American audiences only found to be strikingly innovative because they habitually don't recognize that the rest of the world exists? That part?

The only half-way interesting part of the whole damned movie was when Cipher betrayed the group. Other than that, it was sold purely on style.

Alright, so you don't like that kind of thing. Very well. Though I do wonder what movies like Mortal Kombat, Aliens, Predator, etc had that the Matrix does not.

Are you telling me that you honestly lack the cognitive abilities to see any substantive differences between those films?

I enjoyed all those movies not for their innovation, but for their action, and the individual qualities that they each did well.

And you feel that their qualities are all the same, and match those of The Matrix?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Are you telling me that you honestly lack the cognitive abilities to see any substantive differences between those films?

Besides the obvious difference like one movie had a trophy hunting alien, etc. I'm looking for your opinion on those movies. However, I think I've already read it. You don't like wire-fu, or for the most part John Woo style gunfights. Fair enough. My standards are obviously very low when it comes to action movies.

And you feel that their qualities are all the same, and match those of The Matrix?

To say they're equal is wrong, and I didn't mean to imply that. This really comes down to liking apples or oranges. I just wanted to understand why the Matrix sucks to you, but not Face-Off.

Face-Off had equally retarded methods for dodging bullets, but you enjoyed it.

[Coyote]

The Matrix was just TRON for the serious emo-Goth crowd.

I mean, seriously, the guy suddenly and accidentally finds himself in a computer program, controlled by an all-powerful over-seeing program that manifests itself as a big giant head? And with a "general" that goes kinda rogue and morphs into a massive unstoppable enemy (Sark growns to huge physical proportions in TRON; Agent Smith grows into millions of copies). Neo is a "user" as opposed to a "program", he brings another program back to life... it's TRON, I tell ya!

[Darth Wong]

Are you telling me that you honestly lack the cognitive abilities to see any substantive differences between those films?

Besides the obvious difference like one movie had a trophy hunting alien, etc. I'm looking for your opinion on those movies. However, I think I've already read it. You don't like wire-fu, or for the most part John Woo style gunfights. Fair enough. My standards are obviously very low when it comes to action movies.

It's more than that, for fuck's sake. Mortal Kombat is a silly kung-fu movie, with no pretensions. Aliens has a real character ensemble, and they say things that actually make sense in context, instead of saying them just to sound cool or pompous. Predator is two movies in one: an Arnold Schwarzenegger 80s happy-grin action movie and an alien monster movie. And all of those films make more sense than The Matrix. Even Mortal Kombat made more sense than The Matrix.

And you feel that their qualities are all the same, and match those of The Matrix?

To say they're equal is wrong, and I didn't mean to imply that. This really comes down to liking apples or oranges. I just wanted to understand why the Matrix sucks to you, but not Face-Off.

Face-Off had equally retarded methods for dodging bullets, but you enjoyed it.

Face/Off knows exactly what it is: a big slam-bang action movie. It makes no pretensions of philosophical profundity. And even then, if it weren't for the performances of Travolta and Nicholas Cage, it still wouldn't have worked. That's why MI2 was unacceptable shit: that whole visual style doesn't work unless the characters are the sort that grab your attention and never let go. Now take the Matrix: possibly the most pompous film I have ever seen, and instead of Nicholas Cage playing the title role of the man who finds himself in an unfamiliar reality, we have ... Keanu Reeves.

PS. By your comment that Face/Off had the same kind of bullet-dodging as The Matrix, I can only conclude that your poor taste in movies has to do with being legally blind.

[Joviwan]

I enjoyed the Matrix immensely, and i still do, perhaps in part due to the fact I first saw it when I was 12, and at that age it was easily the 'deepest' movie that had ever actually grabbed my attention.

These days, I appreciate it for fairly competantly executed hong-kong gun-fu, and for Hugo Weaving. At the risk of me-tooing, any kind of explanation other than 'duracell' would have been superior, though. As for the movie's sequals.. Eh. Once I turned off my brain, I liked what I was watching. I chuckled when I saw Colonel Sanders, and the burly brawl was horrendously too cartoonish for me to appreciate. Again, turning off my brain for the zion battle, i appreciated the beautiful CG, but it was still a horrible waste of space.

As for the final battle and the conclusion of the film, not only was I disappointed they didn't start throwing fireballs, I also didn't understand what the hell happened. The victory ending to the Path of Neo was far superior.

Equilibrium and Bullet Proof monk were both superior to the matrix for me, anyway.

[Kamakazie Sith]

It's more than that, for fuck's sake. Mortal Kombat is a silly kung-fu movie, with no pretensions. Aliens has a real character ensemble, and they say things that actually make sense in context, instead of saying them just to sound cool or pompous. Predator is two movies in one: an Arnold Schwarzenegger 80s happy-grin action movie and an alien monster movie. And all of those films make more sense than The Matrix. Even Mortal Kombat made more sense than The Matrix.

No argument there. The Matrix is full of itself, and I never said otherwise.

Face/Off knows exactly what it is: a big slam-bang action movie. It makes no pretensions of philosophical profundity. And even then, if it weren't for the performances of Travolta and Nicholas Cage, it still wouldn't have worked. That's why MI2 was unacceptable shit: that whole visual style doesn't work unless the characters are the sort that grab your attention and never let go. Now take the Matrix: possibly the most pompous film I have ever seen, and instead of Nicholas Cage playing the title role of the man who finds himself in an unfamiliar reality, we have ... Keanu Reeves.

LOL I completely agree. The Matrix is only fun for me because of it's wire-fu, and outrageous gun fights. The philosophy of the matrix, and the silly dialogue is not what interested me at all.

PS. By your comment that Face/Off had the same kind of bullet-dodging as The Matrix, I can only conclude that your poor taste in movies has to do with being legally blind.

I said "equally" meaning that both made no sense and weren't realistic at all. The only thing the Matrix did that Face/Off did not is make a shitty attempt at explaining it. Face/Off doesn't even bother, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

As for your comment about my taste in movies. The only thing I said is I enjoyed the action in the Matrix, and I'm not sure how you consider that adequate information to make a conclusion about my taste in movies.