What was the largest actual conspicracy ?

[bilateralrope]

I assume that we all have run across people putting forth wild conspiracy theories (moon landing hoax, controlled demolition on 9/11, etc). A lot of them would require huge levels of manpower to pull off.

Does anyone know how large actual conspiracies have been in the past, and how long each one managed to stay secret ?

And what action was taken to try and prevent or delay the secret getting out ?

[B5B7]

During WWII the allies had a conspiracy to convince the Germans that their main attack during invasion of France would be at Calais instead of Normandy. Probably not what you're after though - I imagine you mean a conspiracy by a private group [does that include or exclude the RC church? ]. I imagine that the real successful conspiracies are either unrevealed or are not conceived as conspiracies [like American rebellion against the British?].

Something closer would be the scandals regarding hospital deaths/mistreatment and bureaucratic bungles, and the consequent cover-ups. The situation with one of the major American car manufacturers and their dangerous self-immolating cars is also a possibility.

[General Zod]

Operation Snow White is a fairly "large" conspiracy in terms of actually infiltrating the US Gov and getting a considerable amount of publicity at the time. I can't think of anything else offhand.

[Sea Skimmer]

During WWII the allies had a conspiracy to convince the Germans that their main attack during invasion of France would be at Calais instead of Normandy.

At the same time the allies also had deception efforts to suggest a landing in Brittany, south Norway (objective Stavanger), north Norway (objective Bodo and Narvik), Spain, South France (actually launched but only well after Overlord), and several points in the Balkans. The Soviets also engaged in several highly successful deception operations, but probably nothing can beat the deception carried out by the Germans themselves in 1941, which successfully convinced Stalin that Germany was not about to invade, despite having clearly shifted over 100 divisions to the east. Course this only worked because Stalins word was law, many of his generals fully expected a German attack but could do nothing to prepare for it.

Outside of warfare, I agree with you that the largest conspiracies are going to come from the corporate world. The details though depend on what you consider a conspiracy and what’s protecting trade secrets ect..

[Superman]

The funny thing about the conspiracies that we know actually existed are that they are never anywhere near the size of the phony conspiracies that the cooks love to promote (government responsible for 9/11, government hiding aliens and UFO's, moon landing being a hoax, etc.). I think that humans, generally, are just not very good at pulling them off, especially in free societies.

I think you're right about pulling them off in the corporate world. People involved in in running large businesses would be able to pull them off more easily.

[Simplicius]

It might be worth looking at ass-covering, too. I'd expect to see many more 'conspiracies' take the form of an attempt to hide a colossal fuckup than some sort of organized scheme.

[Darth Wong]

I assume that we all have run across people putting forth wild conspiracy theories (moon landing hoax, controlled demolition on 9/11, etc). A lot of them would require huge levels of manpower to pull off.

Does anyone know how large actual conspiracies have been in the past, and how long each one managed to stay secret ?

And what action was taken to try and prevent or delay the secret getting out ?

Barring secret military operations, one of the largest had to be the conspiracy of silence among tobacco companies to conceal and downplay the negative side-effects and addictive qualities of their product. It may be instructive to use that example to illustrate what it takes to maintain a conspiracy (and even that one fell apart eventually, with insider testimony that gutted them in front of Congress): entire regions of the country had economies which were based on this product. To say that there was incentive was a gigantic understatement: because of the deeply intertwined nature of the tobacco industry and many regional economies, many people probably felt that they were defending a way of life.

It's also worth pointing out that they were never able to silence independent critics despite all of their power and influence. But those critics didn't have the resources to do the kinds of medical studies that the tobacco companies did, and for which the public health implications were kept secret.

Another major example of a conspiracy has to do with dairy and meat products: specifically, the close ties between the dairy and meat producers and governmental organizations which led the American and Canadian governments of the mid-20th century to enormously overstate the amount of dairy and meat products that you should have in a healthy diet. Again, this was due to people who were (in their minds) protecting an entire way of life, and again, they were not able to silence independent experts, which is why their conspiracy eventually failed.

PS. Did you notice that farmers were involved in both of these examples? The farm lobby has long had an unhealthy influence over both government and the public mind-space, thanks to an incredibly successful marketing and spin-doctoring campaign.

[The Grim Squeaker]

PS. Did you notice that farmers were involved in both of these examples? The farm lobby has long had an unhealthy influence over both government and the public mind-space, thanks to an incredibly successful marketing and spin-doctoring campaign.

And beneffiting from an immense concentration of concentrated power. (cash/beneficiary ratio as well).

I find it arguable that the dairy/meat conspiracy was on par with the massive Normandy schemes, they used dead bodies and millions for that, and I've never heard of the sheer focus in the other scheems. (Although The Tobacco companies come close in spending, as does maybe "Snow white" in focus, but I find it doubtful. Were all the industries on that scale going 100% "Let's fuck/infiltrate/smoke em up, hide the truth and let loose traitors in their camps, until we smash them to pieces").

I'm probably wrong, but thought the point worth raising...

[Stuart]

Does anyone know how large actual conspiracies have been in the past, and how long each one managed to stay secret?And what action was taken to try and prevent or delay the secret getting out ?

I don't think it's an answerable question. A successful conspiracy is like the perfect murder, nobody ever knows about it except the direct participants.

[tim31]

Since Mike mentioned tobacco, I'm going to put forth lead tetraethyl. The Ethyl Corporation held press conferences in which lead pioneer Thomas Midgely would douse his hands in the stuff saying 'nothing to worry about, perfectly safe' before rushing off to cleanse his skin of what he knew to be an extremely toxic substance. When journalists asked why workers at ethyl plants were suddenly dropping into comas or death, they were told that 'those men probably worked too hard'. Oil companies are very powerful and the only man who stood up to them kept getting crushed, and even when lead was removed from petroleum more than twenty years ago, he barely got any credit because he'd been so thoroughly discredited. I can only remember his first name was Clare.

And it never ceases to amaze me that Midgely, the same guy that developed lead as an engine knock for cars, also created CFCs. But that's another story.

[bilateralrope]

Does anyone know how large actual conspiracies have been in the past, and how long each one managed to stay secret?And what action was taken to try and prevent or delay the secret getting out ?

I don't think it's an answerable question. A successful conspiracy is like the perfect murder, nobody ever knows about it except the direct participants.

Then lets just focus on the ones we know about. Also with the conspiracies list here I notice them falling into two groups:

- The ones that only needed to remain secret for a short while (the WWII example)
- The ones that provide more advantages to the people involved the longer they are kept running.

But the nutjob conspiracies wouldn't provide anything more than a short term benefit, with major problems if it would come out. Along with major advantages to the opposing political party if they find out about it.

Even if we assume that all elected officials (including ones that entered politics after the event) are in on it, wouldn't they be a huge blow to the US (since they seem to be involved in all the nutjob conspiracies) if someone involved went and talked to a hostile foreign country ?

The foreign country only needs to pay off and hide one or two of the involved people. But the people in the conspiracy need to keep everyone silent.

[Veramocor]

What about the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine and then blaming the Spanish? Although maybe at the time of the accident those involved did believe they were responsible and we'll never know the truth for sure.

[TC Pilot]

One of the better conspiracies is the "evil communists are out to kill us" nonsense the Nazis used after the Reichstag fire in '33 to gain emergency power.

[PainRack]

No one here seems to have mentioned the Protoccols of Zion. For a conspiracy done by the Czar secret police, it had long lasting effects, managing to influencing people of its lies all the way until the 1960s-70s.