McCain caused USS Forrestal Fire?

[KlavoHunter]

My dad likes to get his news off of Rense.com, a news-linking website that contains, in my opinion, a high noise-to-signal ratio.

Anyways, he's absolutely gung-ho about the latest news story he picked up on there, about John McCain, offering a suggestion that he caused the USS Forrestal Fire via pulling what was effectively a prank with his plane's engines.


Have a look for yourself.


Frankly, no other site I've checked has suggested anything at all about McCain performing a 'wet-start' with his engines to cause this... ...and this website ends it by saying that it is a 'Zionist Conspiracy' to cover it up.

[Big Phil]

Pure, unadulterated bullshit - probably the Swift Boat assholes again.

[SirNitram]

More conspiracies in N&P? Imma hafta start burning.

[MKSheppard]

If I recall correctly; the Forrestal fire was caused by a F-4 in the lineup behind McCain's A-4 firing a Zuni rocket via electrical short into McCain's aircraft; which then caught fire; he escaped by the skin of his teeth

[Big Phil]

If I recall correctly; the Forrestal fire was caused by a F-4 in the lineup behind McCain's A-4 firing a Zuni rocket via electrical short into McCain's aircraft; which then caught fire; he escaped by the skin of his teeth

Did you check out the site - they're claiming McCain started his engine to surprise the F-4 pilot, and that caused the rocket to fire. And then, while trying to get out of the plane, he apparently released two bombs under his plane...

[Lancer]

Any webpage that ends an article by attributing responsibility for a lack of evidence to a conspiracy such as a "Zionist Conspiracy", instead of actually providing some hard evidence to back up their claims can be pretty safely considered to be worth less than the bandwidth it cost to load the page.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

If I recall correctly; the Forrestal fire was caused by a F-4 in the lineup behind McCain's A-4 firing a Zuni rocket via electrical short into McCain's aircraft; which then caught fire; he escaped by the skin of his teeth

Did you check out the site - they're claiming McCain started his engine to surprise the F-4 pilot, and that caused the rocket to fire. And then, while trying to get out of the plane, he apparently released two bombs under his plane... :roll:

Because you have your safeties off on your weapons when you're idling on the deck of a carrier...

Jesus, these people are idiots.

That, and even if he did release the bombs, they wouldn't be armed, and how is having them explode on the deck in a fire worse than having them explode three feet over the deck in a fire?

[Tsyroc]

I've seen the movie about the Forrestal fire several times, all before McCain really entered the national spotlight. Considering how the movie harps on all the things that are done wrong that day I would think that if someone did something to specifically cause the fire that it would have been mentioned. Maybe the person wouldn't have been mentioned by name but they sure could have said something about the A-4 pilot screwing around blah blah and causing the F-4 to inadvertantly fire a rocket.

[Shroom Man 777]

I saw a documentary about that aircraft carrier fire. I think it was concluded that it was due to some... electrical misfiring or something. Due to maintenance being shoddy, 'cause the crew was overworked or something. And something about old bombs.

[Stuart]

I saw a documentary about that aircraft carrier fire. I think it was concluded that it was due to some... electrical misfiring or something. Due to maintenance being shoddy, 'cause the crew was overworked or something. And something about old bombs.

The proximate cause was electronic inteference from the ship's radar and the weapons release system on the F-4. This induced transient strays in the electrical system of the F-4 and caused the rocket to fire. This was (and remains) a serious problem on aircraft carriers and is one of the reasons why proposals to install SPY-1/AEGIS on carriers always get shot down.

The F-4 was particularly prone to problems of this sort. Originally it was designed as a fleet defense fighter with no air-to-ground capability (actually, it was originally designed as a strike aircraft but that's another story). The ability to carry air-to-surface munitions was added later and was a kludge to put it politely. Then, the whole system got screwed over again when the aircraft was assigned a nuclear delivery role and the various nuclear-related safeguards got installed. They really messed things up, the Air Force F-4Ds were notorious for weapons release problems with munitions being either released prematurely or hanging on the racks. The problems were ameliorated with the F-4E and F-4J but were never properly sorted out.

The British had similar problems in the Falklands War when they wanted to base RAF Harriers off HMS Invincible and HMS Hermes. There was serious concern about interference-induced weapons release there because the RAF weapons had never been cleared for use on a carrier and were considered unsafe (that's why the RAF and RN used different air-to-surface rockets).

[Isolder74]

That's just silly. They claim that McCain was transfered not because he was basically sitting in the middle of the fire but was in order to keep him from getting lynched by his fellow crewmembers. They actually SHOW a picture of his mangled plane and conclude somehow that he wasn't injured in any way at all.

Not at the end they say that it doesn't matter who is elected president that the zoinists will still rule USA anyway.

[MagnusTheReD]

Frankly, no other site I've checked has suggested anything at all about McCain performing a 'wet-start' with his engines to cause this... ...and this website ends it by saying that it is a 'Zionist Conspiracy' to cover it up.

You shouldn't be surprised at all - the site's composer(s) is a deranged Zionist-Conspiracy lunatic and he doesn't even attempt to conceal it.
Total lack of sources and huge leaps in logic are his main tactics.

The last time I stumbled across it, the site claimed that the attack on USS Cole was executed by the Israelis because,
check this out, no other power in the ME is capable of producing shaped-charges!
Sadly I can't find that gem on the main directory right now...

Here's another piece, though:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Israelis_In_Iraq.htm

According to this guy, the Iraqi snipers that shoot Marines are in fact Israeli, because,
wait for it, there are Jews of Eastern descend that look like Arabs!

So, yeah, I have my doubts about the validity of that site, and when people link to it for references,
it's a very good sign that they are conspiracy lunatics themselves...

[Kamakazie Sith]

I saw a documentary about that aircraft carrier fire. I think it was concluded that it was due to some... electrical misfiring or something. Due to maintenance being shoddy, 'cause the crew was overworked or something. And something about old bombs.

Yeah, but the reason McCain was left out of the spotlight is because the true powers that be wanted him to be president since the beginning of time

Lucky for us we have these concerned citizens who have seen through this evil plan.

[Frank Hipper]

More conspiracies in N&P? Imma hafta start burning.

Seconded.

[Beowulf]

I like how it says it's "young hotshot pilots" who wet-start their planes, but McCain was an O-4 in his 30s at the time of the fire. Not exactly young, and he'd probably be in for at least 10 years at the time.

[Sea Skimmer]

The proximate cause was electronic inteference from the ship's radar and the weapons release system on the F-4. This induced transient strays in the electrical system of the F-4 and caused the rocket to fire. This was (and remains) a serious problem on aircraft carriers and is one of the reasons why proposals to install SPY-1/AEGIS on carriers always get shot down.

Never heard that one before. I thought the official cause was a power spike when the Phantom was shifted from running off external power to its own batteries. Course, had the bombs lasted as long as they should have in a jet fuel fire before cooking off, the disaster might have been averted with only a few planes wrecked.

[Darth Wong]

My dad likes to get his news off of Rense.com, a news-linking website that contains, in my opinion, a high noise-to-signal ratio.

Anyways, he's absolutely gung-ho about the latest news story he picked up on there, about John McCain, offering a suggestion that he caused the USS Forrestal Fire via pulling what was effectively a prank with his plane's engines.


Have a look for yourself.


Frankly, no other site I've checked has suggested anything at all about McCain performing a 'wet-start' with his engines to cause this... ...and this website ends it by saying that it is a 'Zionist Conspiracy' to cover it up.

Why the fuck are you even posting a link to such a goddamned piece of shit webpage, with articles like "Margaret Sanger Started The Zionist Abortion Industry" and "Why I believe the Jews are lying about the Holocaust"?

Just take a look around that worthless septic tank of a website. They have a poll asking "Who Orchestrated 9-11" and the esteemed readers of that site voted 91% in favour of "Zionists". Bunch of mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers.

[Adrian Laguna]

That, and even if he did release the bombs, they wouldn't be armed, and how is having them explode on the deck in a fire worse than having them explode three feet over the deck in a fire?

Most people don't know that arming and releasing ordnance are two distinct actions. A lot of them probably don't even know that ordnance needs to be armed in the first place. Given common depictions of warplanes in movies and such, this is to be expected that there is a certain perception that releasing a bomb automatically means it'll explode as soon as it hits something.

[KlavoHunter]

Why the fuck are you even posting a link to such a goddamned piece of shit webpage, with articles like "Margaret Sanger Started The Zionist Abortion Industry" and "Why I believe the Jews are lying about the Holocaust"?

Just take a look around that worthless septic tank of a website. They have a poll asking "Who Orchestrated 9-11" and the esteemed readers of that site voted 91% in favour of "Zionists". Bunch of mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers.

I didn't look at the rest of the website.

After hearing that, I'm glad I didn't.

[mingo]

That's just silly. They claim that McCain was transfered not because he was basically sitting in the middle of the fire but was in order to keep him from getting lynched by his fellow crewmembers. They actually SHOW a picture of his mangled plane and conclude somehow that he wasn't injured in any way at all.

Not at the end they say that it doesn't matter who is elected president that the zoinists will still rule USA anyway.

McCain WAS injured, (although not permanently) and was shot down over Hanoi on his next mission after his recovery. If I recall the film we saw in boot camp correctly, the plane that hit McCain's was not behind him, but across the flight deck. McCain can be seen jumping out of the cockpit seconds before his plane is engulfed in flames.

Grampa McCain has his faults, but starting the "Forestfire" is not one of them.

[Sea Skimmer]

McCain WAS injured, (although not permanently) and was shot down over Hanoi on his next mission after his recovery.

He was shot down on his twenty third combat mission actually, after being reassigned to USS Oriskany later in 1967. Interestingly enough it was just the previous year that Oriskany herself had a major hanger fire, caused by a seamen throwing an ignited flare into a locker filled with hundreds of the things, which then set off a 2.75in rocket magazine.

[Big Phil]

McCain WAS injured, (although not permanently) and was shot down over Hanoi on his next mission after his recovery.

He was shot down on his twenty third combat mission actually, after being reassigned to USS Oriskany later in 1967. Interestingly enough it was just the previous year that Oriskany herself had a major hanger fire, caused by a seamen throwing an ignited flare into a locker filled with hundreds of the things, which then set off a 2.75in rocket magazine.

What ever happened to the seaman who threw the flare into the locker? Did he die, or did he live and get imprisoned?

[Sea Skimmer]

What ever happened to the seaman who threw the flare into the locker? Did he die, or did he live and get imprisoned?

And why we he be thrown in prison? You’d fucking shit yourself if a 4,000 degree decoy flare ignited off in your hand. The sailor survived as far as I’m aware, and had the sense to close and dog the flare locker hatch behind him. Ideally he should have thrown the thing over the side to start with, but then ideally that locker should have had sprinklers too. They wouldn’t have put out a magnesium flare, but they probably would have prevented the subsequent explosion.

As it was closing that hatch bought enough time to move four armed and fueled aircraft parked just feet away. If those planes had exploded in the first minute of the fire then its quite possible Oriskany would have been lost, either burnt out by far more massive fires or capsized from the all the firefighting water being sprayed onboard. As it was 44 men died, most of them asphyxiated in gallery deck compartments, which filled with smoke almost instantly.

[Big Phil]

What ever happened to the seaman who threw the flare into the locker? Did he die, or did he live and get imprisoned?

And why we he be thrown in prison? You’d fucking shit yourself if a 4,000 degree decoy flare ignited off in your hand. The sailor survived as far as I’m aware, and had the sense to close and dog the flare locker hatch behind him. Ideally he should have thrown the thing over the side to start with, but then ideally that locker should have had sprinklers too. They wouldn’t have put out a magnesium flare, but they probably would have prevented the subsequent explosion.

As it was closing that hatch bought enough time to move four armed and fueled aircraft parked just feet away. If those planes had exploded in the first minute of the fire then its quite possible Oriskany would have been lost, either burnt out by far more massive fires or capsized from the all the firefighting water being sprayed onboard. As it was 44 men died, most of them asphyxiated in gallery deck compartments, which filled with smoke almost instantly.

I just assumed he would have been court martialed if he'd survived, what with the typical need for a scapegoat and all.